Surely I haven't contradicted myself since then!!?

lol!

Thanks!

Not in the slightest! Walka-Proud

Interesting list of titles, I guess I'll be spending yet another night behind the computer!

Just bought a .416...so now I can read all about whether or not I did the right thing

Frans

If anything, I'd say you're even more of a "wise" guy, now.

I want to see the 1000 post thread on that bullet everyone was B.S.ing about just before the 45-70 wars started.

The .416 Wars

.416 Rigby vrs Remington

.416 - Best All Round Big Bore?

Is the .416 Really a Stopper?

Hey Nick whatever happened to the other long running 2001 classic "Scrub bulls versus Cape Buffalo" starring yours truly and Atkinson....and eventually half the registered members on the site


Karl.

Karl,
Was that the name of it? I surely remember the thread you are alluding to but have not come across it since. From what I recall, that may be a good thing!

Nick,
Last time I saw it Mike brought it up for someone else to look at about a year ago I think.

Apart from the slinging it had more info on scrub bulls then ever posted before, and quite a few guys asking about hunting here by the end of it.

It appears to have been deleted, along with some of my other longer 'discussions'

I think DRG is cleaning AR's house starting with people he doesn't like.

Karl.

Karl,
A number of threads have been unavoidably lost via past attempts to upgrade, of which there have been many. Over and above that, only threads meeting a most stringent and logical criteria are targeted for elimination and even then, solely for the purpose of filesize reduction, in a collective effort to enhance system responsiveness. Blatant troll threads being a possible exception.

What? You're enrolled in law school now?

Nick,

I must be unlucky and participate on too many blatant troll threads



All is not lost however, as yoda said there is another...the sister thread that ran the same time





I do notice though there are megabytes of say Todd/axel pure bullshit in the system from years ago right up until still occurring as we speak, and 'normal non topic' stuff is getting the axe in it place.





Karl.

I re-read them all just for laughs.

400 grains is 400 grains and 2400 FPS is 2400 FPS regardless of which cases, actions or minute diameter difference may exist.

What interests me is that in view of what it costs for the visiting sportman to hunt is that there is so much concern about the cost of cases and bullets. You can buy a lot of components for the cost of TIPS to either the staff (who are susposed to be getting paid) or the PH (also paid). For the resident PH availabilty is a big issue.

So, make it simple. Buy 3 versions of the same thing. Us the staff tip money for one set of components, the PH's for another and then the regular amount you would be willing to spend for the third one! That solves everyones problem. You get the components, solve the tipping problem (which is out of hand and over played) and you get lots of practice.

It just seems to me that concern of component costs should be way down on the list of priorities in making a choice of cartridges to use on a DGR.

Have a good hunt with whatever you choose. That is what is important. Hit them right and they are dead. (They only die once!)

One thing that I learned is the .375 H&H is the most powerful, best shooting dangerous game caliber ever invented.

I am glad to see that you have finally discovered that the 416 is a piece of poop.

And it only took three years of hanging around you geniuses...

Yeah, yeah, yeah ... And after three years of exposure to such genius, Zero Drift has convinced me that the .416 Rigby is no longer King.

The .416 Dakota RULES ... even if it is the red-headed stepchild of Dakota Arms, now banished to the woodshed while the .404 Dakota "Short" freak-show gets to go to the prom.

Karl,

If you go to the bottom left hand part of the page you can select past dates to show. If you go to the beginning all appears to have been deleted that is prior July 2004.

The thread you are referring to was about the time when Ray Atkinson was deserting Swamp and HuntAmerica to come to AccurateReloading.

Mike

Mike,
The "Show All" feature has a glich and it's been there forever. Look at the dates on the .416 postings in this very thread, which were obtained by the "Search" feature.

Karl,

Quote:

---

I do notice though there are megabytes of say Todd/axel pure bullshit in the system from years ago right up until still occurring as we speak

---

Does that bother you?

ASS_CLOWN

RIP - I am glad to hear that you finally came around.

ZD,

I had forgotten about you and the 416 Dakota. Now there is another cartridge destined to obscurity.

Bill - If it makes you feel any better I have owned a .416 Rem, a .416 Dakota, and a .416 Rigby. I still own the Dakota and Rigby. I didn�t select the Dakota because of its popularity or nostalgia because it�s not in either department.



My Dakota squirts a 410gr Woodleigh Weldcore at 2500fps with 98gr of H-4831. The Rem will never see these velocities, and the Rigby needs another 10 grains of power to see this. So what�s so wrong with the Dakota?

ZD,

There is a referendum on the Kansas ballot today, and in several southern African countries, to ban any 400 gr. bullet that exceeds 2,400 fps. Hence, the Dakots is in trouble.

To make matters worse, my new 416 Taylor is almost done and I doubt I will reach 2,400 fps. If not, I want another referndum next year to specify that the maximum velocity of 400 gr. bullets must not exceed those achieved with my Taylor.

Dakota envy?

Bill - You are either getting old(er) or you just want to go into the woods under-gunned. If you want an easy shooter just build a Waters .416 Express. I think it hits 1800fps on a good day going downhill. It is devastating on ground squirrels and prairie rats especially after you hit them with the butt of your rifle.

As I have explained to you time and again, speed kills. Why not build a real gun?

As a relatively new member to AR, it's great fun to see how you have all treated the classic caliber controversies, especially since I just recently bought a CZ in .416 Rigby. In fact, it was surfing the web for information on the caliber that I came accross AR.

This said, I notice that not much is said about obtaining 2400 fps with a 400 grainer without going over the originally designed pressure for the cartridge. Am I to understand that one of the advantages of the 416 Rigby (low operating pressure) is just another part of the nostalgia of the cartridge and everybody goes for 2500+ fps just because it's possible?

The Rigby is a great launching platform. It has legs far beyond most other .416s because of the large case capacity. It matches the Weatherby in performance and you can take the Rigby past 2700 fps. However, the recoil at this energy level is punishing to say the least and you won�t see much difference in terminal performance in the field.



Anything above 2400 fps with a 400gr bullet is going to smack the largest of game. To be honest, the additional energy beyond 2400 fps is insurance. However, the .416 Taylor is really nothing more than a nitrocellulose powered slingshot. And you will only see old, decrepit has-been hunters shooting them. I guess the knowledge that their PH will kill their game for them makes the Taylor suitable for Africa...

Zero Drift,
Your load sounds good, but could be better if you substituted a 380 grain GSC FN or 370 grain North Fork FP in .416 caliber for that obsolete Woodleigh FMJ. Even a Speer AGS or Trophy bonded Sledge Hammer would be better.

Those round nose FMJ's have been known to keyhole more likely than the FN/FP. It's a terrible problem with those antique bullets.

The .416 Dakota deserves a better bullet.

I reckon H4831 or H4831SC Extreme by Hodgdon would be about perfect, and your 98 grain charge would make either the NF FP or GSC FN step out smartly and probably more accurately than the Woodleigh. Maybe H4350 Extreme too. These are the powders I will try in my .416 Dakota.

The .416 Dakota combines all the best qualities of the .416 Remington, .404 Jeffery, and .416 Rigby, except nostalgia.

But who gives a rip about that besides "Nostalgians." They are a queer breed. Some of them do not even like synthetic and stainless rifles.

Will, I have an 8.5 pound .416 Taylor with a 26" barrel that easily does 2400 fps, probably at max pressure. If you are going with a 22" barrel, you had better count on 2300 fps with 400 grainers, for safety sake.

Rip - I have been shooting Weldcores and not solids in my .416s. I am getting almost full penetration with the 410s on buff. I have never had a problem with them and I have shot 15+ large game with them. As far as accuracy at the range is concerned, I have not found a more accurate bullet.

I have shot Jack Carter�s Sledgehammer but was not happy with accuracy. The tungsten carbide core of the AGS is great for shooting through boilerplate, but penetration is not a problem with the Weldcore. And for the record, the .410 Mark II Weldcore is not �obsolete nor antique� it�s only four years old...

ZD,



Hey, my 416 Taylor will come in at 7.3 lbs., unless bluing adds a lot of weight.



I figure in case I become the chargee, I want to be able to get my PH lined up between me and the charger, and a barrel length greater than 22" may get hung up on the PH's shorts.



I am just worried that at the relatively low velocity of the 400 grainer at 2,300 fps with a 22" barrel, the solids may not penetrate the charger sufficiently after passing through the PH!

You're not right...

ZD,

My bad. Solid bullets on the brain lately. Must be a tougher version of the Woodleigh Weldcore if it doesn't turn inside-out at 2500 fps on cape buffalo shoulders.



Will,

Have fun! Post a picture when you get it done, and I'll take notes. By the time I get saved up for an elephant hunt I'll probably need a 7 pound .416 Taylor and a 4-point walker. Think the PH would let me carry it in a shopping cart with off-road tires?

Rip - The old Weldcores were made for original Rigby velocities and thin tubed doubles. Once you turned up the power, the original thin jacket turned into a frangible varmint bullet. The new Mark II jackets are very beef�ed up over the original. I still have a box and a half of the originals, but they are target fodder today.

I have yet to find a better controlled expansion bullet for the .416, however, I have not tried the North Fork or the Nosler Partition.