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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Question for the .45-70 naysayers...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Quote: Not a Ruger #1 or a Browning 1885? | ||
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Quote:Quote: NitroX: I can appreciate your frustration, but I'd also appreciate it if you didn't only partially quote me, and then ridicule me thereby. And, as for them not thinking it would penetrate the first buff; well, it did, now, didn't it? And then some. RSY | |||
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Gents, Well it looks as if the 45/70 nonsense has begun anew. We did not see the Buff hunt that was supposed to take place after the first Buff hunt raffle. I say do it again. This time, no other hunt can be done at the same time as the Buff hunt. The Buff will be done with a lever/action, 45/70, nothing else. I know the stunt, LAF, and book reading remarks will be forthcoming, but that's expected at this site. If there is any interest in a possible 45/70 Buff hunt raffle, sign on to this post. By the way, I secured Saeed's approval (some time ago) before making this post. I was just waiting for right moment, and this seems to be the one. Roger QSL | |||
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I made the mistake of taking his bait. Anyway, when all this snow melts and the thermometer comes back above zero, I'm going to try the Bridger Solids in both the 45-70 and 458 Lott. Several different mediums, including a few American Bison. I'll post the results here if anyone would like to see them. Joe | |||
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Mike375, you simply amaze me. I doubt MacD37 is anything even close to an anti. Joe | |||
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Quote: Mike's just trolling for arguments. The ignore button is hurting his other aliases and he's getting bored. | |||
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From MacD37 posting To diliberately use an inferior tool that allows the buffalo to suffer longer,if he has another choice, is, IMO, criminal! Another anti that happens to be a gun owner. Some people in power might regard a two shot rifle with all sorts of potential problems as being an inferior tool Mike | |||
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Quote: How come all these crap 45/70 threads begin this way ? Quote: "hidden" my ass, they didn't believe it would penetrate through the first buff. | |||
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Alf, That was quite sometime ago in the early days of AR's Politcal forum. BUT as you will remember you advocated various levels of gun laws. I think the only ally you had was an Australian poster, Deafgog, who shared your views of the necessity for gun laws. Mike | |||
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Rusty, With guys of the credentials of Mike375.. Now you know why they would like to ban firearms in Australia... This why they have the Darwin Awards to get genes out of the pool.. Mike | |||
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Someone said on the NE.com forums, "if the 45/70 was British would it be OK to use in Africa?" (something like that) Another poster replied it would have to be called "the .450 2 1/2" Nitro Express". I think that summed it up quite well. That lesser 1/2 inch to an inch of case capacity makes up quite a difference. I think it is a great lever action cartridge and could kill anything on Earth. For the lesser game, no problem if it range limitations are respected. For larger game, as a stunt. Will do it, but not as the primary weapon (and definitely not as the backup firearm). *** Rogers new raffle idea: I would enter a new buff raffle, I like buying rifles and hunts for other people  , but I can't see why it has to be a 45/70. Leave the rifle choice to the winner. I would prefer to use a legal and adequate cartridge.Plus Ann will finish off her hunt still. And prove a 45/70 will kill a buff if shot well. | |||
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Dave Scovill also recently wrote an article about hunting in Africa, with a 45-90 IIRC. I think both of them were on the same trip... Scovill shot his buffalo 9 times, I think. | |||
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"Someone said on the NE.com forums, "if the 45/70 was British would it be OK to use in Africa?" (something like that)" Actually this is so much closer to the truth than most would be willing to admit. One very consistent thread among African PH's is a not so subtle distain for most magnum/large cartridges American. Yes the .45-70 may be a poor DG cartridge but then so are the majority of the cartridges developed in it's "era". Maybe we should drag out and "modernize" the .45-110, or the .50-70 or the .50-90. Oh where does it ever end. (rhetorical) | |||
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Did any of you guy,s look at the bullit that was used in the 45/70? A LARGE flat point and it was a solid brass? or copper. Now look for a bullit like that in your old reloding books. All factory bullits are round nose or spitzer. There were a few custom bullit makers that made that type of bullit years ago but not many. Custom bullit,s 50$ abox of 20, the factory bullits (mass produced) 25$ a 100. In 1800,reds we were not looked upon as a great gun desiner,s. The brit,s and germans were the quality gun,s not no lowley lever action. Americans that went to africa to hunt used what they were told would be good. As is happening here. It,s always be the bullit construction and the shape for the vol. used that makes it work. Not the cart shape or the rifle shape. I know it,s hard to understand a 450$ rifle can do the job of a 1000$-30,000$ safarie rifle. | |||
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500grains, I read the article, and my first thought was "oh-hoo, another round of debate on the 45-70 controversy on AR!". However, without evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take Pearce at his word(I'm funny that way, I take a man on his word until it is proven to be untrustworthy) that he fired 3 shots into his buff and that the 1st one penetrated through the bull and the cow behind him. With the second shot penetrating lengthwise hind to front and the third shot penetrating through both hips. I don't have any reason to think that the man is lying. That said, when I go after Buffalo, I'll either use a .416 Rigby or a .458 Lott. Not because of any disdain for the 45-70, but rather because I like pretty bolt guns far more than any lever action, particularly the ugly old Marlin. And I sensibly recognize that those are far more powerful rounds for the job. Of course, I could use my 9.3x62 (in Zim, anyway), but that wouldn't give me an excuse to buy a new rifle - LOL Whatever happened to proper shot placement, anyway? I always thought that was the overriding argument? Troy | |||
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TCEncore, if you talk to the PH about the hunt then see the article in print, you may develop a jaundiced view as I have, when the "facts" in the article diverge from what actually happened. Of course the PH keeps his mouth shut out of courtesy. I have seen it happen with the most famous author in our industry. The disease of gunwriter typewriter is alive and well. | |||
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500 grains You got a shred of proof that Pearce was lying in his article ?? If not , you are taking a lower road every day....... | |||
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sd, When a writer has a clear agenda, it is best to keep that in mind in assessing the credability of his claims. I thought you would know that. Also, you may want to reflect on your own behavior in these forums.... | |||
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Quote: Seems to me that is a clear case of the pot trying to call the kettle black here , 500 . So I take it then , you have no proof that Pearce didn't do what he said he did ? You just wish to brand him a lier with insinuation and inuendo ? Yeah , some of these writers may have an agenda . It appears some internet posters may have one also . | |||
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I don't know any of the parties to this debate, don't know you, nor Brian Pearce, or the PH . . . all things being equal, I'm the sort to take things at face value. I'll accept that if you've spoken to the PH in question, then you would obviously be privy to more information than I. As I said earlier, when I go after the buffalo, I won't use a 45/70 - I have no interest in the round. I'm thinking that .416 Rigby sounds about right, in a nicely stocked bolt gun, with my own handloads. That said, I simply can't see why this thread generates so much heat on these boards. It works, and I recall Saeed (whom I imagine has killed as many Buff as anyone on here) once saying that he would use one - maybe not his rifle of choice (obviosly). If its legal, and a guy wants to use it, more power to him. Its every bit as powerful as some of the rounds used in times past, and far more powerful than a bow or muzzleloader. Its the 45/70 guy's life, and his PH can either accept him along or not. Troy | |||
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I'll be damned, a voice of reason among all the flying crap. There's no magic in a 45-70, the cartridge follows the same laws of physics as any other cartridge. It works pretty good in a double rifle too. Dave | |||
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Troy One of the reasons that the 45/70 threads develop heat is because some people on the 45/70 side of the debate argue that the 45/70 is superior because it is only doing 1500 f/s or so with the 550 grain bullets. The theory is supposed to be that penetration increases as velocities are increased until 1500 f/s is reached then penetetration begins to fall off as velocity goes above 1500 f/s. In short, some people argue that the 45/70 is superior to the 458 Win and 458 Lott as opposed to arguing that the 45/70 is adequate. Mike | |||
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font> <br />Troy<br /><br />In short, some people argue that the 45/70 is superior to the 458 Win and 458 Lott as opposed to arguing that the 45/70 is adequate.<br /><br />Mike <br /><br /> </blockquote><font class="post"><br /><br />And that is it, in a nutshell...<FWIW, I'd take a 45-70 buff hunting if I won a raffle, but if I was paying myself, I'd take a .375 H&H or a 416....I feel no need to prove a point, I just like hunting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Question for the .45-70 naysayers...
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