Have been curious about something for a while...I see lots of differences in the gov't license fees for the same animals with different safari operations. I understand how trophy fees could be different, but how can the MOZ gov't license fee vary? I see them vary by hundreds of dollars depending on the outfitter.

I am admitedly ignorant on this subject, and would appreciate someone enlightening me.

hell, you see the same thing for gun permit fees, hunting license fees, individual government animal license fees, etc. among the various operators in every country in Africa. obviously something ain't quite right.

Unfortunately, this seems to be a very common practice in Mozambique. I believe the cause can be defined as GREED and can be laid at the feet of the outfitters who "add onto" the government fees. There is no question that bribery of government officials is safe and well in Mozambique as well. The Chef de Post is always willing to accept a hind-quarter of meat to look the other way.

When the Mozambique government raised the animal license fees five + years ago, about double as I recall, it was my contention that it was brought about by the jacked-up fees the outfitters were charging and listing on their price lists. The outfitters didn't bat an eye and simply added to the fees again!

Having thrown that out there, I still consider Moz to be one of the two best countries for safari. Zambia is the other.

I just had an operator quote me a trophy fee of 2K just for a hyena. Seems quite stiff to me. How expensive is that one compared to others in Moz? Hell, going back to Zim looks better and better all of the time!

Tim, it is something I am working on at the moment with the outfit we are working for in Moz.

UEG, there is a strange thing about Hyena in Moz. The animal holds very a very sacred place in the indeginous folklore and believes. Therefore the they are very very conservative on how many they offer to hunt, and they make them expensive. We only have 1 on quota for 2010.

Kwan will tell you an interesting story of a spottie in Moz (the money side of it), if he feels like it. I'll ask him to comment if he can.

So where is the official gov't license fee list for various animals? Would be nice to see what is actualy license fee and what is "mark up".

Moz trophy fees are on a two scale basis

1. Official Hunting Coutadas -
2. Community Hunting areas

and this is where the Hnting Outfitters get screwed, when you run a hunting operation in a community hunting area, you will pay the official coutada license PLUS the Trophy the Community area adds too it, meaning in some cases it is even double what the government wants(Federal)

So example Federal wants USD 700 dollars for buffalo, in our area the fee is USD 1000, why ???

Cause in the community area the community still pays the governement ( Hopefully) and then they have too add the bit that goes too the community, and that comes out of our/your pockets

Yes , Charl is right, last year has Spotted on Specail quota request, only !@#!#!@#$ that damn heyena cost me USD 4000 in trophy fees, only problem was I only charged client USD 1500 as the Heyna trophy fee on the official list was only USD 1000, my Community bastard frogot too inform me of the add on

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LionHunter:
Unfortunately, this seems to be a very common practice in Mozambique. I believe the cause can be defined as GREED and can be laid at the feet of the outfitters who "add onto" the government fees. "

Sir, with all due respect, if you are a 711 shop owner in the USA do you sell your coca cola for exactly what coca cola sells it to you for?

Different outfitters in different countries put "mark ups" on different parts of their fee structure. In fact those who mark up trophy fees are probably giving the paying hunter a better deal since at least you only pay on success.

If we "professionals" were not "allowed" to put mark ups on the items we are selling, we would:

(a) Not be professionals but indeed amateurs.

and (b) not be in business in order to outfit paying hunters.

Since when is putting a mark up on the price you get something from a wholesaler become "GREED". It is our business and livelihood and if it is clearly stated in an outfitter's price list it is simple - book or don't book.

We are unfortunately unable to work for cost. Just like any other business in the world.

Appreciate the input. What Walter said makes sense.

JTHunt - I agree 100% with you. Trophy fees varying is part of business, and like you said, you book or don't book. Wondering about the license thing - if that was the same thing. I would not want that jacked up for profit under disguise of gov't fees if there was a profit built in - would rather have it added honestly on the trophy fee.

I happen to agree with you Sir, and certainly in my own business government fees are charged at cost. This is just good business sense, especially in Tanzania where these fees are(a) high and (b) common knowledge.

We (for example) charge a small mark up on trophy fees (+/-15%) which is a community levy that is spent on local communities. These may vary depending on the area you hunt. Other outfitters mark up their trophy fees considerably, and/or charge an "area fee". This is up to them and up to the hunter to choose whether or not he is willing to pay them.

I do take exception to the GREED comment by Lionhunter above. There sometimes seems to be a sentiment expressed by some on AR that feels that we outfitters and PH's should work for cost. This would be a great way to ensure that there would be no more hunting in Africa,or anywhere else for that matter. I do realise that his remarks were extended more towards Mozambique, and the very clear answer from Kwan above illustrates my point.

Very few African outfitters grow wealthy, most struggle to get by, especially in these times of a soft market and governments charging ever more for their concessions and animals. To paint all outfitters with the GREEDY brush is at best unfair.

JTHunt -

Your comments are ridiculous and if you knew anything about Mozambique safari hunting you would not be making the comments you have or else you are being completely disingenuous.

Moz has a two tiered structure on animals, a License fee (government) and a trophy fee (outfitter). It is the License fee that Tim was asking about and I gave him an honest answer as I know it to be, effective 2005 when I retired as a booking agent for a number of African countries including, wait for it, Mozambique.

Tim asked his question because he has noticed the obvious discrepancies between outfitter quotes on the License fee on each animal. As he indicated, if it is a governmental License fee per animal, then it should be the same for every outfitter. It is the trophy fee the individual outfitter charges per animal that should contain community development funding, anti-poaching funding and any other miscellaneous charges that the tribal/community or the outfitter wants to add on. This is where the outfitter should be adding/making his profit margin.

This is known as full disclosure and was once common in safari hunting but has become very clouded in some areas by some outfitters.

BTW, I know outfitters who own helicopters, airplanes, boats and multiple homes and farms in multiple countries. Doesn't mean they are all "greedy" but the fact is that some are. And I am honestly quite tired of hearing about how poor African outfitters are and how rich all American safari hunters are. Neither statement is true 100% of the time.

The mark up in Zambia is roughly 15 - 20% as a general rule and these progits are normally dedicated to community development and wildlife management. Note the school that we are building in Luangwa will set us back $50,000 this year. Our anti poaching teams another $15,000 in supplies, rations and salaries. The list of expenses is endless. When was the last time you saw a Opertor or indeed a PH reclining in first class?

Mike is correct. It is a two-tiered system (like Botswana). In Ethiopia there is only what's called a license fee. There are no trophy fees.

I agree with you Mike, that the license fee should be kept consistent across the board. But it's a common practice, of course you know as a former booking agent, to see fluctuations in the license fees. I would never call it greed, because that's an offensive word to Africans. "Profit motivated" is my description---

And JTHunt, although you and I have disagreed in the past, I concur with you this time---that there's nothing wrong with that. In fact very few people on this board would disagree with that, but when it borders on the excessive, that's when a client's feathers get ruffled. Like you said, you either book or you don't book.

If the client enjoys his experience, he writes the check at the end of the safari with a smile, regardless of the license and trophy fees.

Something I do whenever I arrive in camp---I demand that the outfitter show me where my anti-poaching dollars, and community dollars are going---

I want to see the schools, I want to see the anti-poaching patrols, I want to see where my meat is going when it leaves the camp. I can understand if the village chief or a minister wants a hindquarter of nyati. I volunteer to go along on the ride to deliver it to him.

It's your safari and your money, so don't be bashful about asking where all the money and meat go. Isn't that fairgame Andrew? Nice to see you guys are going through with plans to build the school. I would like to come and see it when it's finished, and talk to the students. Don't be bashful about promoting it when it's completed. That's a beautiful thing.

Stay on the lookout for a 50" sable for me too. Nice description on the opening of your season on the other post as well. Too funny---PH's look bigger and trackers get thinner---you gotta laugh about that one. And then throughout the course of the season isn't it the opposite? The PH's lose their bellys and the trackers gain weight.

BTW Tim, good luck on your show. Hope you got your question answered here. That videocamera allows you to do a little "negotiating" with those fees, if ya know what I mean.

Thanks Marc...

This question wasn't really concerning trying to book, it is something I have just always wondered about, and no one has ever given me an answer.

Good stuff here though - always learning.

I don't think anyone objects to profits. As a client, after a few trips it dawned on me that an outfitter needs to get a certain amount of money to conduct a hunt, whether it comes from "daily rates," "trophy fees," whatever. Although it perhaps should not, when words like "government fee," or "license" are used, additional markup looks like chisling. Feeling chisled makes a guy feel unhappy. It's like paying hundreds of dollars for a hotel room, then having to pay three or four dollars for a can of Coke from the vending machine. If the room was five bucks more, nobody would care.