The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting DO NOT FLY SAS FROM DULLES, $27,000.00 IN FIREARMS MISSING IN LAST 2 MONTHS.....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| DO NOT FLY SAS FROM DULLES, $27,000.00 IN FIREARMS MISSING IN LAST 2 MONTHS..... | Login/Join |
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I've had personal effects lost or stolen on every overseas relocation I've made. I've had no trouble with guns on hunting tripa. I came through Dulles from Zim/RSA last year. My bag didn't make the connection to Dallas, but my rifle did. The arrived the next morning. In years past Dallas and Miami used to get the most press for organized theft. In Miami it was the baggage handlers. At DFW it was some guy that hung around the baggage carousel. If everybody left and a bag was still on the carousel he stole it and sold the contents and the bags at local flea markets. When I go hunting I take the shortest, cheapest route. I don't get too paranoid, but it sure feels good to see that baby come rolling out. Regarding bag tags, I was surprised when I picked up my rifle case at Vic Falls, Zim. and one of the baggage handlers stopped me and handed me my bag tag that had gotten pulled off. I thought that was an unusual gesture. | |||
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Did not see you on the news -- kept watching but nada -- assume you found your artillery? OMG!-- my bow is "pull-push feed" - how dreadfully embarrasing!!!!! | |||
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GS makes note to rethink that Merkel 9.3 X 74 double, and, maybe take the cheap, 9.3 X 62 interarms mark X... Sorry to hear about your troubles... GS | |||
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First off sorry for your yet to be confirmed loss. Having a gun/rifle stolen is a horrible experience. Second SAS, the main airline here here in Sweden and a large one at that in Europe has no color other than the companies ie red, blue and white and has no standing in being anti-gun or the likes. I fail to see the connection between firearms theft and anti-gun airlines, the ones we have here that are anti-gun are BA, TA and some other small outfits, they will not allow you to check firearms on to a flight, end of story. Should I assume that the anti-gun attitude that you adress SAS to have is linked with the loss of your firearms? Do you really belive that a international company let people steal their passengers firearms? Seriously, get real. It´s a known fact that airports are notorius for loosing gargo and also a extreme high number of thefts. Stuff getting stolen from storage rooms, sure but that is not something the SAS company is the only one to have a problem with for that matter. Guns are valuables hence they get stolen, that´s a fact. I sure hope that they are recovered but if not that the air line and insurance will cover some of the damage that you have sustained. Best regards Chris.
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Husky 98, I would ask you to call Air2000 and speak to them about SAS. I'm sorry they are " green ".....................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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Reconfirmed today with Shawn Brigance of Gracy Travel. Eventhough they are denying it SAA IS LEAVING 40-60 passenger's bags behind almost daily out of Dulles. People are arriving with guns and some baggage, no baggage but receiving their guns and any other scenario you can imagine. I'm very glad I don't use them. Also from Shawn. BA to Africa continues to have the best record of baggage and guns arriving with the passengers. Particularly when transferring from BA to BA the chances of loosing your guns are almost zero. This is not my opinion but based on booked flights through Gracy Travel. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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C'mon Alf, you are a real party pooper. The whole point of this post was to stir up anger against "green" and "anti gun" folks. Obviously these are just the kind of people who would steal guns, not thieves! Now here you come, ruining the whole thing with your weird logic! Now we have to see if the Airport handlers are "green". I am really sorry that JJ has lost his guns, but as I suggested in an earlier post, I am not sure this can be pinned on anyone being green or anti gun, it's just that some people are crooks and thieves. Sorry, I just don't see a conspiracy here. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter and Alf, During the two days I spent at Dulles talking to Customs, baggage reps and airline employees I learned lots of things. No, its not a vast conspirecy against hunters to lose their weapons, its the small things..... Like bumping your luggage box ( the big metal containers designed to go into the cargo hold of the planes ) for a luggage box with cargo because the airline gets paid more to haul cargo than your luggage....... ......only scanning 70% of the checked baggage ......ever wonder what happens to luggage or rifle cases that are " no tag " ( meaning the paper tag has been lost or torn from the bag ) Some green airlines bump bulky/heavy luggage ( meaning rifle cases ) more than others, some have a higher incidence of " no tag " luggage than others....... I could go on and on, but suffice it to say hunters are a target when they travel, like it or not. I hope you never lose a rifle case or important bags, but if you do, do as I did and go and spend 2 days talking ( not bitching ) to employees and you will get the same education I did, to put it in their words " its scary " what happens to rifle cases. Will I ever hunt again ?, sure I will, and I will fly with guns again. But now I know how the system works and where to look. My rifles are in JFK safe and sound, they will be delivered by Fauna and Flora in about a week to an FFL of my choice................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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Hi JJ, I am very glad you did find your rifles. Now you can sleep peacefully again. Regards to you all Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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JJ did I miss how you found out where your guns were and what happened? I agree that guns are, in America anyway, a good target for thieves. I agree that because hunters have guns in their luggage, then they are a prime target for theft. I just don't buy that gun theft is more common with "green" carriers than with other carriers, or that anti hunting people are going to steal guns just because they don't like hunting. As has been posted already, the carriers only have part responsibility. The handling of valuables has been discussed here on AR many times, and certainly the role of the TSA is hardly exemplary. (I don't want to sound unpatriotic!) Unfortunately, we have few options once the guns (and the rest of the luggage) leave our hands. Although I have a Tuff Pak, the option of breaking down guns, putting them in a small gun case, and putting that in a duffle bag sounds like the best option to disguise the fact that it is a firearm. I agree that it is scary! Anyway, I am very glad that you have located them and that they are on their way back to you. Were they in a Tuff Pak? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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JJMiller: It would be very helpful to all of us to have you prepare a detailed report of what you discovered during your two day's in Dulles. Having that knowledge and knowing what to ask, where to look, what to do to prevent some of it from happening in the first place may save many of us from what you went through. If it is possible to do so, could you post a more detailed report with your recommendations? This might even form a new chapter for the AR Book that is currently being sold here. Thanks. | |||
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Flew from Houston to JoBerg via United and SAA on the 1st of May, 2007. My rifles, and those of another in our party, did not get off the plane with us in JoBerg. Luckily I had gotten Air2000 services. Their representative worked us thru the SAPS people and SAA, located the guns still at Dulles and arranged to have the guns expedited to our camp in the Limpopo the next day. We were upset over the delay, but were able to borrow rifles for the interim and all was well. (I really enjoyed popping a jackal with that borrowed .30-06, seemed like taking a shot at the dunce in the Dulles baggage handling room. Our return trip was unremarkable, being from Windhoek, Namibia, thru JoBerg and back to Dulles and Houston. Actually, I was impressed by how well the customs check at Dulles worked. I still buy trip insurance for my rifles. LLS  | |||
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I second this request. All the help we can get will be greatly appreciated if needed. Of my trips over I have never had my case(s) lost or miss placed, but with law of averages... Global Sportsmen Outfitters, LLC Bob Cunningham 404-802-2500  | |||
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Yo Miller I an confused, green as in new to the buisiness or green as in evironmental friendly? SAS har flown people since 1930:s or so, some time. Still it´s sure seems like your gear was stolen/lost/missplaced by ground crew, they are the airports crew I still haven´t managed to get a solid grip on the events in question here, btw did you say that you had confirmation regarding your gear being scanned at Dulles? Best of luck and regards Chris.
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JJ...isn´t it about time you change the heading on this post ? Scandinavian Airlines System ( SAS ) do not fly Johannesburg out of Dulles. They have no emplyees working as ground crew in Dulles or Johannesburg. They are defenately not any "greener" than any other airline company , flying hunters and guns all the time in Scandinavia. And I second Husquarna, what is your defination of "green" in this case? Reading your post it seems reasonabely clear that the SAS are not to blame for your mislaid guns. I think Alf summed it up pretty good, and still your tread stats that "DO NOT FLY SAS FROM DULLES" ! JJ, you can´t fly SAS from Dulles ! Arild Iversen. | |||
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H98 FYI. When GREEN is mentioned, it's usually the ENVIRONMENTAL TYPES and not the rookies on these forums.  Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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I agree, if you can't use them, why own them. I've been using them since '72, and will continue to use them. Insure them and sleep well! | |||
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Arild, While I do not have any argument with most of your post, the SAS WEB SITE, does seem to show SAS flights from Washington IAD, New York, Chicago and Seattle. | |||
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Your absolutely right LHowell, but the flight in question was Johannesburg to Dulles. And as far as I know, SAS dont´t fly Johannesburg at all. I stand corrected, I should have been more specific. Anyway I find i a bit unfear to nail an air carrier for lost luggane and mark it "green" while there is an American company doing ground service at Dulles who are to blame. That´s how I read this tread. Arild Iversen. | |||
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UseEnoughGun, "Yes that is an old SAA trick. SAA pulled that on a bunch of us in Jo'burg while preparing to fly to Phaloborwa in 2005. Two of us then literally got into the faces of some of the official black SAA reps that had made the decision that some passengers and most of the passenger's luggage would stay behind and would be delivered in 2-3 days, All of the other passengers, execept the two of us, just meekly stood by refusing to challenge them on it. I then told all of the remaining passengers that I and my wife were going on that flight with all of our luggage and guns and that the rest of them, who were refusing to speak up, could then decide amongst themselves who was flying and who was staying behind with their luggage. After our very "frank" discussion, SAA brought in a bigger plane that would carry all of the passengers and all of their luggage. A South African PH was on that flight as well, and he made no bones about the situation either. Lucky for the two of us that we weren't arrested and thrown into jail, as it got extremely heated." I think there is a lot of disinformation and lack of understanding, understandably so, for passengers of airlines. Ultimately, it is the Captain of the airline who makes the decision whether to take more passengers or more cargo. It is highly, highly unusual that an airline would just happen to have bigger 150 million dollar plane available (with associated rested, available and seat qualified crew) to accommodate your situation, just because there are more pax and cargo to load. I think there was more to the story than that because you got in there faces they changed there minds and got a bigger plane. Sometimes the plane's capacity is "blocked" by dispatch to limit total passengers boarded for weight and balance purposes to be able to complete the scheduled flight without having to do a "tech stop" for refueling. I know that situation is extremely frustrating to a passenger, but what I'm telling you is the truth. SCI, NRA Life Member Warm trails and blue skies! | |||
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I forgot to add that in IAD (Washington-Dulles Airport), frequently the delay or holdback of cargo (your bags and gus) is the fault of TSA and NOT the airline. TSA-IAD is notorious for holding up flights due to how slowly they clear luggage. It is frustrating for passengers AND flight crews, I assure you. SCI, NRA Life Member Warm trails and blue skies! | |||
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do SAS have ground crew, aka bagage handlers in the us ? as far as im informed that is the airports employes and have nothing to do with SAS. i use them for most of my travels incl guns and ammo and as long as you play by the rules then no problem. i hope you find your guns soon. peter | |||
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Is there and archeologist at work here?  The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery. -- Winston Churchill | |||
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I also believe it is a problem with Jo Burg International Airport. I think this is a problem that SCI should confront the SA government about. | |||
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Agreed. And by the way ScottW, there was nothing more to the story. They moved in a bigger plane and flew everyone and everything on to Phaloborwa. Highly unusual? Maybe, maybe not. The thefts now make sense as to why the Sportsman's gun insurance as been a little tougher on their pay outs. | |||
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Peterdk: "do SAS have ground crew, aka bagage handlers in the us ? as far as im informed that is the airports employes and have nothing to do with SAS." Most domestic airlines have their own baggage handlers (called "rampers"). Int'l airlines usually have their own as well, but may in some situations hire contract "baggage handlers." Use Enough Gun, I was referring to "more to the story" on the airline's side, that you and I are not privy to. I was not suggesting that you had more to tell. I think what I was getting out of your post was that in your mind because you and the PH got in their faces and applied some heat that that had any effect on them changing to a bigger plane. That would be an inaccurate view of how airlines work, and I just wanted to try to provide an insider's input. Not trying to one-up you, but I hear and read some very uninformed views about the airlines and sometimes feel the need to speak up. SCI, NRA Life Member Warm trails and blue skies! | |||
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I do my nut about this sort of shit!!!! Glad you found your rifles A couple of months ago had a client who had all of his luggage lost with his ammo, needless to say we flew him into Zim and let him start the hunt in borrowed clothing with the PH's rifle. I returned to Jhb and eventually 5 days later got the luggage, it landed up in the wrong side of the world. SAA informed me that they could not get the luggage into the clients location in Zim??? I had them drop it off in the at the Pafuri Gate in Kruger and a anti poaching chap that helps us out smuggled the baggage over the river to the client who was waiting on the Zim side. Where there is a will there is a way. Your rifles should be safe as it is against the law for anyone else expect for security cleared personnel to handle firearms - I believe it is Greys Security in Johannesburg, no normal baggage handler may handle firearms intransit in south africa. what happens elsewhere is another story. | |||
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ScottW: No offense taken. You're right, we don't know what was going on in the minds of those nonsensical SAA reps and employees, or what they were thinking or doing.  .458Aubs: It seems like the Jo'burg Airport keeps getting more and more out of control as time progresses. I had a somewhat similar, but not identical, experience in July/August of 2008.  | |||
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I feel pretty lucky after reading these tales of ineptitude and thievery. I booked my rifle case and bag at Boise all the way thru to Zim, and they all made it. Coming back, everything was good until F--king United overbooked the flights from Denver to Boise. We sat on the side for 38 minutes, they told us another plane had not left yet and was in our hole. Turns out that was our connecting flight to Boise. Got here at 9pm, no luggage. The next morning a taxicab delivered everything. Rich Buffalo Killer | |||
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Rich, Did you get gun insurance on your 550 and 450? Matt ______________________ Sometimes there is no spring... Just the wind that smells fresh before the storm... | |||
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Just a heads up, Avoid chicago at all costs. 100 % of the time I've flown through there for any reason, something bad has happened. Every time I go through chicago, I get delayed at least a day, sometimes multipul days. 2 Time they lost my luggage and never paid me for it. My luggage had all my cloths so I had to buy all new cloths. Then they lost my luggage again and I had to rebuy all my cloths a second time. I will never travel through Chicago again, EVER! They've costed me $1000's, wasted vacation from Iraq to see family, wasted airline tickets because delays lasted about as long as my vacation. I know the chicago airport is the problem because When comming back from over seas, I always pick my bags up in the US and hand them to the Chicago guys to put on my local flight. | |||
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So he browbeat the crew into overloading the plane??? | |||
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Airline liability per bag is $1250.00 max. Generally it is the dispatcher who decides how much cargo can be accepted after all bags for ticketed passengers are loaded. The Capt. has the authority to leave either or both to add more fuel for weather or other airborne delays. In unusual cases even some passengers might be left behind. Joburg doesn't normally these types of wx. (snow or ice etc.) If an attorney tells you an airline is liable for your uninsured 30k double YOU need another attorney. As a retired airline capt. I never took an extremely heated controversy for an airplane ride nor do flt crews get browbeaten into doing illegal things. SAA does get worse daily, no doubt. JMO | |||
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No, they brought in a bigger plane. Nothing illegal about it. We watched them switch planes and then they placed all of the luggage onto it and we all climbed aboard and flew on to Phaloborwa. Whether it was our arguing or some other act of the SAA, it did happen, we made our Safari, and had a great time.  | |||
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I was very lucky flying to Harare from Dulles and back.When I got to Harare,I didn't have to wait for my rifle on the conveyer.Someone had done that for me and known that it was my rifle.He just approached me with my rifle and bag on the carriage and said"is this what your looking for"-Seriously! I was then led to a small room where the rifle case was opened in front of some guy.He asked me what did I bring him from Canada? I replied,that he must be kidding.What can I bring him from Canada that he doesn't have? He seemed unhappy and let me go.That's when I saw Buzz waiting for me.The guy with my rifle followed me all along and I felt that I should tip him.I asked him if he would accept a tip and he said yes.So I tipped him. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting DO NOT FLY SAS FROM DULLES, $27,000.00 IN FIREARMS MISSING IN LAST 2 MONTHS.....
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