What are your honest opinions of this gun. I just aquired one and shot a box through it last night just playing around and I liked the way it shot and felt. Or better yet what might I do to make it better aside from reaming it into a LOTT at this point.

Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 18:07: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

Entry level gun at best. Not aesthetically pleasing, but reasonably affordable. I would prefer a cz550 by a wide margin.

I paid $250 NIB for it so of course I had to take it. I will use it and others and begin to get the guns I really want made.

Doug,

I agree with 500 grain on the Savage products, basic bottom of the list quality. Be careful if you handload for it because it could show excessive pressure with loads that a Model 70, Rem. 700, or 77 Ruger will shoot fine. I certainly wouldn't waste money converting it to the Lott.

The Savage 110 family is a very mature product. I can see no reason why it would be less capable of dealing with pressures than Ruger, Remington,or Winchester. If this could be expounded on, I would appreciate it.

What they are known for is their outstanding accuracy and economical costs. The major shortcoming is their appearance. They have a below standard fit and finish, but that is what keeps their costs down. Enjoy your Savage .458, I think you will find it a good value and that it will have a high degree of accuracy. Please keep us informed of its performance.

Jeff in Texas

LC'92,

It is accurate. I was shooting plastic pop bottles at 50 yds. open sighted and it shot great.

Doug

I must be a dumb SOB cause I can not figure out why a Savage 458 would show excessive pressure from loads that all the rest would just cruise thru.

I bought a Savage in .458 for a great deal, too. Mine wasn't quite as good as yours, but $400 NIB was pretty good in my book. I found the feeding flawless and the accuracy quite good. If I remember correctly, it shot 450 grain Barnes bullets at 2250 into less than 2.5 inches with iron sights at 100 yards. I never used the muzzle brake system, leaving it turned closed, but for a recoil sensitive fellow, the system has merits, I guess. I sold it to a member here from Alaska for what I paid for it and he is happy as a clam. The stainless construction is great for wet climates, I suspect, too.

I say all this, with one caveat. If presented a Savage again for $400 and at the same time, a CZ for $500.... I'd take the CZ every time. Why... ?? I like the Rigby-length Mauser action, the magazine capacity and the fact that the Lux Safari stock usually has wonderful wood just hiding under the horrible CZ finish. MHO.

[ 06-20-2003, 04:15: Message edited by: JudgeG ]

Well, the Savage is not a pretty rifle (judged by looks alone), but, they shoot! My Mod 112 338 WM will shoot sub moa groups w/225 gr. Hornady SP @ 2830 fps if I do my part and shows no pressure signs with either this load or with Federal High Energy factory ammo.

While the Savage is no work of art, "pretty is as pretty does". Doug, enjoy your rifle, only complaints I am aware of from Savage owners is their looks and the early triggers were not much but can be improved or replaced with a Timney. The newer models have the accutrigger which is adjustable.

I, too, would appreciate any information as to why the 110's/112's would show excessive pressure signs w/ammo safe in Remchesters.

Regards,
hm

For $250 NIB, I would say ugly or not, if it shoots decent you got a hell'va deal!

Should make a great work gun.
At 250 you surely cant complain.
You did allright Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 07:01: Message edited by: Mike Smith ]

dwhunter, you got a great buy and mine, a 116SE in 458, shoots extremely well and I have never experienced any reloading difficulties what so ever.I can't believe some of the comments I just read! I do most of my hunting with M70's,I have seven currently from 416 to 270 and except for the two pre 64's and two of the classics I've had to clean up the feeding a bit on most of the newer ones. I also have two CZ 550's and several custom mausers but I have dumped all but one remington,a 760 pump, several Rugers and at least one browning which was by far the biggest piece of trash I ever owned. You have a good rifle there and mine is finished and fit better than any current remington. Load up some 450 gr barnes x's, make sure they feed well and get in the high grass and don't worry about the rifle.

There are ABSOLUTELY no pressure issues with the Savage vs. the other big three factory rifles. I'd bet if tested, the Savage would not be at the bottom of the heap with pressure issues.

Thanks Guys and gals,

After shooting it again last night I think it will stay with my keeper guns. I can live with the barrel nut for a work gun. If it keeps shooting like the other two Savage guns I own (17 cal and 223)It will do a great job. I will have it polished and have a new trigger put on the gun and I have already looked into a stock job as I would prefer a cheek piece. Judge G, I did a few quick fire throws to the bolt as well and as you said it cycled flawlessly! I never did use the brake as I would rather get in my practice under actual hunting conditions and besides the recoil was quite tolerable. My 14 year old son Jordan pulled off a few rounds with no problem with good accuracy.

Doug

Doug if you decide you dont' want it I will take it in New York minute and gladly give you a profit on the deal. Love a Savage (gun or woman) and will gladly add it to my 25-250, 300Wm and 375 H&H.

dwhunter,

The guns we were shootring were a Model 70, a Ruger 77, a 700 Mountain Rifle and a Savage 110, allin 270 Win. It may have been just a coincidence but all the other guns showed no signs of pressure but we had to back off the Savage loads.

I used one of the plastic stock models for awhile and aside from the looks found nothing to complain about. In fact the factory sights are my favorite of production bolt action rifles. I think I paid three hundrd and change for it and only got rid of it because I didn't really have any need for a 458 and at the time felt a little silly using the thing.

I don't care for Savage design or quality. Just because a manufacturer (or custom gunmaker for that matter) chambers for a dangerous game cartridge does not mean that they are producing a dangerous game RIFLE....

The truth is, if you can afford to hunt legitimate thick-skinned dangerous game that requires the use of something like the .458 Win. Mag., you can afford to purchase (can't afford not to, actually) a better-built, better-designed rifle, and the Savage represents an exercise in false-economy in my estimate.

AD

AD,

You are of course entitled to your opinion. But if you can maintain 1.0 to 1.5 inch groups what is the problem? Granted there are better out there in the custom world, but for a tool it is fine. I will still arrive at my destination whether driving a chevy or a mercedes.

Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 18:45: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

DW, Allen is quite right and so are you in a way. Although accuracy is always an important component in hunting, it is by no means THE most important thing in a DGR. Matter of fact, most double rifles, considered by many as the non-plus-ultra of DGRs are hard pressed to keep a 2" group at 50 yards. What a DGR simply MUST have, is unfailing RELIABILITY. That is, it must feed, fire and reload with the same predictability as "death and taxes." In that regard, a Savage and many other rifles too, just don't offer that without extensive modifications. CAn you take it to Africa? sure, but remember, in DG hunting there are no points for second place! jorge

Jorge,

I agree with you. Their are certainly guns that are spit and polished for their particular task. But any shooter will (Should) certainly know their firearms limitations after countless hours on the range. I shoot a few days a week and know most every one of my guns intimately and would never hunt anything like DG with something I was not 100% confident in. When the time comes for a buff if I felt this Savage was not up to it I would certainly not take it along. As I mentioned above I am going to have a trigger job done, new stock and polishing done to it. But as it is after 40 rounds in the past 2 days I really like the way it shoots. Accuracy and feeding so far flawless.In regards to the Chevy, Mercedes comment, one just a lot more comfortably and with plenty more style!

Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 19:35: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

Doug, the great illusion at work here is that accuracy off the bench is by no means the only measure of rifle performance. In fact, if that's the only yardstick you go by, you can be lulled into a false sense of security that can be very misleading. Feeding, durability, and simplicty are all bigger performance issues for DGRs than paper accuracy alone, and I can assure you that "Murphy" works overtime in Africa....

After all, you're not hunting woodchucks - you're hunting stuff like 1,600 cape bufalo that you might have to hit several times fast and up close with dust everywhere and under a very high level of stress. This is where things start to come unglued (with rifles) all too often in Africa, and this is where quality becomes not a money issue, but possibly a life-threatening issue.

I'll take a simple (meaning few parts), all-steel, controlled-feed action (Mauser/Model 70 pattern) any day of the week - so do the vast majority of African PHs - and that's the sort of rifle I recommend to others. As I stated before, this is no place to play it cheap.......

AD

I believe the Express haas controlled round feeding, and barring other reliability problems, should be a fine dangerous game rifle. As long as it works for you every time, don't be ashamed simply because it is not a designer rifle. There's a lot of gun snobs out there...

As is usually the case the opinions very but good points have been made. I would like to state however that the only rifle I've personally seen fail,aside from some military rifles, was an expensive custom built mauser in 416 built by a very reputable gunmaker. The gun failed to feed the second round making a second shot impossible. Fortunatly the buffalo, as they usually do, chose flight.The problem was caused by the maintenace (orlack thereof) of the rifle. The owner is a very experienced hunter but it happened.In fairness, I had an alaskan brown bear guide tell me the story of his Savage 458 failing to feed properly and it put him and his client in a bad situation (he didn't bother to check it for rapid feeding). Fortunatly he sorted it out and had a little help from his friend. The lesson to all this is something I learned 35 years ago. If your life depends on your firearm you damn well better be very familar with it and maintain it properly. Murphy's law you know!

Calif Hunter,

I am not ashamed of anything, I own plenty of expensive firearms, getting close to 30 total in the safe and closet. You are right about some folks. It is a tool and if it does the job, it does the job and no need to apologize!

KNOW YOUR WEAPON!

Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 20:01: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

I think a better analogy is, would you use a bargain parachute or would you spend a few hundred extra to get a "name brand"?

The fact is, damned few DG hunts result in charges (unless you are Mark Sullivan or are using a .45-70 lever-action with hard-cast bullets ).

Wring your rifle out thoroughly to expose any defects or weaknesses. If you are satisfied, go hunt something nasty. Hell, I hear people are even using push-feed rifles on DG!?!

George
P.S. I prefer Winchester CRFs myself.

Please inform me. What is it about a Savage that makes in inherently less reliable than a more expensive rifle?

Gary in Ohio.....in the opinion of some here...it seems to be the price

[ 06-21-2003, 04:44: Message edited by: TXPO ]

I own a 116SE in 458 and if I had a gun built to order it would end up as the 116se, the only change I would make is remove the "stainless Steel" engaving from the barrel. The gun shoots well, is of fair balance for a large caliber and I never had to send it back like I hear repeadely about the Winchester 70. I feel it is better built than my 700 which has given me trouble and sent to the factory twice, I would like to get it in 375 also.

Hey, doesn't that Savage .458 have a Rube Goldberg style bolt, with the head/face of the bolt being a separate part that is pinned on or stuck on with chewing gum? I don't know for sure, as I have never owned one. I may have owned over 100 rifles, and may still have most of them, but never have I even considered a Savage bolt action. (Shudder)

I am a notorious cheapskate, but a Savage in .458 Win Mag? You gotta be kidding!

I assure you that I am no gun snob, and I take delight in poking fun at the extended-pinky-finger-crowd.

Have a little self respect and move on up to a CZ 550, a Ruger, or a Winchester M-70 if you want a big bore capable of serious use.

This is meant to be taken as concern for your safety and others. Not snobbish in the least.

Cheers!

I currently own two Savages along with a rifle with a Montana action, a few Rem 700s, Ruger MkIIs, Ruger #1s, and several others. Yes, I've owned Mausers and Winchester M70s, but they were right bolt guns so were traded off.

The Savage has a bolt head that is removeable. My first Savage (which I still own) has three bolt heads: std or '06/7mmMauser, magnum, and .223. The bolt heads have been changed, on average, about twice a year. The gun has had numerous barrels in many chamberings. It has been a test bed for learning alot about various cartridges. Pressure sensitive? No. Bolt head problems? No. Beautiful? No. Useful? Definitely!

Only thing wrong with the Safari express, is I can't get the damn thing in a left hand bolt gun, they may be ugly and thet may not be true DGR rifles but all that I have work and work well, and it would make a great hog gun for the swamps

dwhunter

Congratulations on your new 458.
I think that the .458 bore is an excellent choice for someones first big bore, and is a must have even for a person with several bigbores.
I firmly believe that we should do our "back yard
deer hunting" with our big bores.
I think that is the best way to learn your rifle and keep up practice with big bore recoil.

The .458 bore has so many bullets easily available for a wide variety of velocities. The 458 is a good elk moose and bear [all bears] rifle to boot. [As long as ranges are kept less than a mile ]
Check out the ballistics with 400grain bullets and compare with the various 416's. Not much practical difference. [I speak of NA game here not Africa big 5]
If you want a lighter than 500gr bullet for your 458, for deer and pigs, I HIGHLY recommond the Hornady 350grRN. This bullet should feed through your rifle. I have killed game with this bullet from 1800fps to 2300fps [muzzle velocity] with excellent results.

Keep us posted on how she shoots.

[ 06-21-2003, 10:11: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

DugaRon says it all, he knows enough to condem the rifle without ever owning one or shooting one. This guy should be in Congress, eh.

Well folks, the Savage may not be to the likeing of some, and it may not be a proper DGR, according to some, but it is a far better choice than any pushfeed rifle ever built, for that purpose, no matter the ugly! If one were to pay full retail, it is not as cheap as the CZ550,in price, which is a far better rifle, but at $250 NIB, I think anyone who turned the Savage down, would be either, falt broke, or stupid!

I agree, the Savage's do no exude pride of ownership. Some of the customer support people don't have a clue about what they are selling and I was not happy to purchase the new FP10 and find out that the dimensions of the rear scope mount had been changed and nobody seemed to know about.

However, this Savage will Shoot! See this:


[ 06-21-2003, 18:35: Message edited by: benzh ]

Die,
Now you are prevaricating. I have fired Savage bolt rifles at the range many times. Usually when helping a frustrated nimrod sight in his "great bargain" scope in see-through rings, after staunching the blood flowing from his forehead. (Shudder)

Sure a Savage with good scope and mounts can be a very accurate rifle. A nice beater for plinking and varmints, even backyard deer hunting.

The rest that needs to be said has been said.

It is a dirty job, but somebody has got to do it.

Cheers!

Savage may have modified their action to act as a CRF mechanism, but that action is hardly of the quality, durability or true function of something like a Mauser 98, Model 70, or Enfield. To portray it as such is ludicrous. (Compare the design and fuction of the respective extractors, for example, and see what I mean) I don't know of any riflemaker who would select the Savage action for custom DGR use, which is a rather conspicuous and telling reality. Of course, if you point out any of this stuff, you get labled a snob, etc....

It would appear that the whole motivation for owning a Savage is the quest for budget accuracy out of the box, and any other aspect of the game passes all understanding, or so it seems. To heck with any other consideration - it's cheap, and it shoots - so what else does a rifle need to be or do, right?

The trouble is, price some of the hunts you'd actually use a .458 Win. Mag. on in Africa, and then ask yourself if the economically-built (meaning numerous sub assemblies of cheap parts) Savage is the absolute best tool for the job that you can come up with.

And I'm not talking about a high-dollar custom rifle alternative, either. Add another $1,000 or so to the price of a Savage, and you can come up with a stock pre-64 Model 70 in .375 H&H or a Browning Safari in .375 H&H or .458 Win., and there's no comparison whatsoever in terms of quality between these rifles, or resale value. You can step over a dollar to pick up a dime if you want to, but price even a short 7-day buffalo hunt or low-end Zimbabwe elephant hunt and then see if the price difference really makes any sense.

AD

For 250 bucks, hell, I'd have bought it too just to get used to the caliber. Allen's comments are telling. If Savage made such a great action, why are they not being used by ANY of the custom rifle makers? jorge