I have a nephew who lives in London who recently went on a self-guided hunt on a ranch in South Africa. Granted, the ranch belonged to a co-worker's family. BTW, they were not very successful, only shooting "little" stuff.
That started me to thinking -- what are the opportunities for self-guided hunts in Africa? I'm sure that most safari countries have a must-use-licensed-outfitter law, but I'm sure there must be ways to get around this by hunting on private ground.
Mike Lindsay (AR member who has not called me in a while) has done it on a number of occasions. Needless to say it is not for the faint of heart. I have talked with him about it. It is not the easiest thing to organize.
Quote: I have a nephew who lives in London who recently went on a self-guided hunt on a ranch in South Africa. Granted, the ranch belonged to a co-worker's family. BTW, they were not very successful, only shooting "little" stuff.
That started me to thinking -- what are the opportunities for self-guided hunts in Africa? I'm sure that most safari countries have a must-use-licensed-outfitter law, but I'm sure there must be ways to get around this by hunting on private ground.
Just curious.
Good luck, Gahunter, If it were easy, I would be there about 100 days per year! You are far better off, and it will cost you less, in the long run, by booking a nice hunt with a reputable PH! Just my opinion!
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
Quote: Good luck, Gahunter, If it were easy, I would be there about 100 days per year! You are far better off, and it will cost you less, in the long run, by booking a nice hunt with a reputable PH! Just my opinion!
That's a big 10-4.......
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003
Sorry to tell you that if he hunted anywhere in South Africa without a PH, Outfitter, hunting licence and/or hunting permit he was breaking the law......As was the landowner.
If he hopes to have anything done with his trophies, he will almost certainly be out of luck as the relevant game conservancy will require the outfitters registration number, PHs hunting register copy and copies of the licences and permits before they will issue any export permits.
Had he been caught he could have been in BIG trouble.
NO WAY, NO HOW would I ever consider doing this myself! I'm too old, fat and chicken-hearted. Besides, I get lost in the super market. No telling what would happen if were on my on in the African bush.
I have some friends and friends of friends who used to buy their own concessions in Zim and did a lot of good hunting. Didn't really rough it either. I think Mugabe's mess has put a dampener on it for the time being.
I would do it in a shot if given a chance.
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002
Reinald von Meurers has done this about 25 times (!). He has kinda given up on it now. I talked to Reinald several times over the course of the years, and basically he spent one multi-week trip just arranging for everything, before he actually went and hunted the second time around. Speaking French is a MUST! If his book Bongo, Buffalo, Sitatunga contains similar info in the English version as it does in the German, this would be a nice start. Not a how-to book, but it gives you an idea of what is involved and what type of situations you may run into.
Each province currently has it's own game ordinance and to the best of my knowledge none are available on the net. You might be able to get copies from the various seperate game dept's, but be warned..........they are HUGE, which would mean expensive postage to the GD or long download times if they send it that way.
It has been discussed here before and I believe alf pointed out a need for 'reward'. If he hunted as a guest of the property owner without any payment then maybe it is not illegal.
Quote: If he hopes to have anything done with his trophies, he will almost certainly be out of luck as the relevant game conservancy will require the outfitters registration number, PHs hunting register copy and copies of the licences and permits before they will issue any export permits.
Just out of interest only.
Can a South African resident who hunted without an outfitter and without a PH export his trophies?
Can trophies as taxidermied mounts be purchased by a foreignor and exported? eg from a curio shop without papers?
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002
All trophies now need to have a veterinary clearance certificate and an export licence (issued by the relevant game conservancy/parks board) before they can be exported (plus outfitter paperwork and copies of hunting licences and permits etc)....and the GCs are very careful about issuing these export permits now. However if they are satisfied, they will issue the export licences.
Having said that, they are very strict. An example of this is that an American PH bought some guys hunting in KZN & NP (in 03 & 04) and wasn't actually qualified to hunt in those provinces. Despite everything else being in order, the GD's refused to accept the PHs paperwork. Not only are the clients not able to get export licences for their trophies, the PH is also in big trouble, and will at least face a biggish fine and possibly worse........he's also lost his membership to PHASA.
ALF,
I see what you mean, and there does seem to be a grey area, however, the overseas hunter still hunted on private land and the GD will require all the correct paperwork before issuing export licences.
As to whether he was actually breaking the law or not, I'm no lawyer so I've taken advice from PHASA, the chief examiner of PH's for one of the provinces and also the hunting director of KZN. All of which tell me that any overseas hunter who hunts without a PH is in breach of the law and lays himself open to prosecution.
As to my opinion on the situation, I think that anyone that tries it is taking a big risk........and bearing in mind the state of African jails, IMO it's not really a risk worth taking. It actually doesn't affect me much either way, as we do so little hunting in RSA nowaday's.....most of our business is elsewhere in Africa.
With regard to your trophies, I should think you will have no problem taking them out. You're an ex-pat with a legitimate address elsewhere in the world and should have no problem proving where & when they were hunted........but of course, it goes without saying that if there's anything I can do to help you just have to let me know.
Interstingly, the new firearms act works hand in hand with the game laws and now anyone importing a firearm from overseas needs paperwork from the outfitter etc. This should make it a lot tougher for anyone to hunt here illegally. Unless of course, they borrow a firearm to hunt with and then the firearm owner will be breaking the law also.
ALF, it's interesting that we're the two sides of the same coin. I'm a Brit, now with property in RSA. I have a UK passport but don't have citizenship or residency here in RSA......I'm here on an own business permit.
I came here because I wanted to run my (hunting) business on a full time basis free from the soppy UK restrictions and lunatic anti-hunting lobby........A large part of my deciding to come here was the fact that I have no dependant children to worry about. I also knew that by running my own business, I wouldn't be affected by the anti white discrimination.....and oh boy, did I hate the UK political correctness!!
So all in all I'm also a "soutie". I can always return to the UK if I ever need to and I've made sure I've kept my UK firearms licence so I can take my rifles with me. Although if I ever have to leave RSA, I will probably opt to move to Tanzania, Botswana or Mozambique rather than go back to Blighty.
All trophies now need to have a veterinary clearance certificate and an export licence (issued by the relevant game conservancy/parks board) before they can be exported (plus outfitter paperwork and copies of hunting licences and permits etc)....and the GCs are very careful about issuing these export permits now. However if they are satisfied, they will issue the export licences.
Steve
As said, just asked out of interest. I believe strongly in the rights of individuals and also friendship. I love hunting with friends rather than "paid friends". As our laws don't provide a monopoly to help out a hunting industry I can do so for international friends at home at least.
But as you have helped get my trophies out of South Africa once when the papers disappeared I'm not in a hurry to have those problems again.
I guess I will just have to hunt with friends who are PHs and outfitters.
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002
ALF, it's interesting that we're the two sides of the same coin. I'm a Brit, now with property in RSA. I have a UK passport but don't have citizenship or residency here in RSA......I'm here on an own business permit.
