This is quoted from another current AR thread: "I sight in 2" high at 100 on all my big game rifles. then I check them for 200, 300, 400 to see where they hit... "

Nothing wrong with that advice at all, and no offence meant to the original poster. This just made me think again about shooting at live animals from long distances.

I've just returned from a family springbuck hunt in the Eastern Cape. Hunting terrain at Ribbokrant is a nice mixture of hills, plateau and very open plains , making for some very good walk and stalk hunting.

Some of my nephews are good shots, some had better limit attempts to something like 25 yards! But what is a decent distance at which the “average hunter†should say: “That springbuck [deer or whatever]is too far for me!†and pass an attempt.

In my family 200 meters [for this discussion close enough to 200 yards] with some shooting aid like a Harris bipod, shooting sticks or a good natural rest seems to be the critical distance. Closer shots are taken, longer ones passed up.

The soundness of the above quoted advice was illustrated when someone in the group [guess who ] was not quite sure where to aim with the particular rifle & ammo to dispatch a previously wounded [by my 25 yards limit nephew] springbuck at about 400 yards! I would never under normal hunting conditions even attempt a shot at such a distance. But where an animal is wounded the rule of “Put it out of its misery ASAP!†supercedes all other considerations. I botched the one chance at an attempt to kill it!

In hindsight I think that each and every hunter must try to develop an honest self-appraisal and learn to know when to say “Too far†AND also practice shooting at distances that are "Too far" and even “Way too far†for that just in case event.

I sit here feeling guilty because I did not know the particular rifle and ammo well enough to make a clean kill at 400 yards, this resulted in a lost wounded animal. Unforgivable! I should have taken my .300 Weatherby!

I will suggest a very general and inaccurate rule of thumb: Your shooting distance is very roughly proportional to the number of rounds fired in practice sessions per year. Less than 100 practice shots per year should limit the average guy to 50 yards attempts. But if you practice some 100 shots, you should be able to make clean kills at 100 yards. The guy who takes 200 practice shots per year coud possibly attempt 150 yards shots. And so on?


In good hnting.

Andrew McLaren

Andrew, I have never taken a shot at an animal at a distance greater than approximately 170 meters. But that is just my experience and I have never gone after pronghorn antelope in the Western USA or springbok in the Kalahari, where I understand that longer shots are quite common.

But I think each individual's ability is quite varied and not necessarily related to how many shots at the range one has taken. Especially since most people just shoot from a rest on a stable bench at the range. If a shooter can shoot consistently 20 shots a year off shooting sticks into a pie plate at 200 meters, it's not obvious to me that shooting more will necessarily make him able to shoot better or furthur.

Of all the hunting I have done, over the years, my longest shot, on big game was in Texas a year or so ago, on a feral hog. It was a measured 185 yds. I did it with a .45-70 guide gun! I have killed a helluva lot more game under 100 yds, than over. Maybe its because I deer hunt in Indiana, which is a shotgun/ML state for the most part. I have taken a couple of deer with the old foster slugs, out of my slug gun at 135 yds.+

I think practice, depends on experience. If you have done enough shooting over the years, and know your gun, I don't think it takes as much shooting to have your "memory" be "on", as someone who hasn't. My son is a prime example. While he has hunted with me since he was 11[he's 25 now], he doesn't shoot much the year round. He gets his practice in with a few sight in shots on his slug gun, for deer season, then we go hunting. While he has killed about 18 deer, and 1 black bear,for the most part, he can't shoot worth a damn past 60-75 yds. His "memory imprint" isn't as ingrained as the ole mans. I'm 56 yrs old, and only shoot a fraction of what I used to, but it doesn't take me long to freshen up, so to speak, and I think I actually shoot better now, than 20 yrs. ago. Maybe its confidence, or my "imprint", I don't know. Andrew, you are right about 1 thing, people need to learn their real limitations, and not their internet limitations, when shooting game . Just my thoughts. BTW, my longest shot, ever, was a prairie dog in Colorado, 3 decades ago with a .270, and 100 gr. handloads, at a stepped off 385 yds. . I don't ever figure on trying to dupe that on any deer or big game, ever.

Mad Dog

I am no great hunter like some folks here.
I've shot a few deer in the UK and a few antelopes etc in SA on a couple of trips.
I did shoot small bore in national schoolboys squad a long time ago.
It isn't boasting to say I don't miss....it is true to say that because I know the range at which I can be sure of my shot.
150 yards would be a loooong shot for me, I really don't think I would be comfortable unless following up on a wounded animal. 80-100 would be the comfort zone for me.
If I can't get close enough for that comfort zone....well there is always another day.

So far I've never had to use more that 1 shot (except on running rabbits, do they count??!). Partly skill, partly luck and partly knowing when to say "oh well".

Does that make me lass of a hunter? Maybe....but I would rather be a hunter than a shooter.

In South Africa, whenever I went to shoot, someone put a stick tripod in front of me, except one time when I rested the rifle on the PH's shoulder.

Eight animals with eight shots. Ranges as short as 20 yards. Three, however, were over 200 yards with the longest about 250.

I used a 300 Weatherby beause I have a point blank range of about 300 yards with it. I mostly shot at standing animals with two walking slowly.

The longest shot that I've ever taken was at a Red Lechewe in the Okavango delta, my Ph claimed it was 300 yds, I believe that it was more like 250. I used my 30-06 loaded with federal 180 gr. TBBCs and aimed at the backline and hit him in the top of the heart. In south Carolina I dropped a Whitetailed deer with one hot from my 7X57 at a measured 197yds. Both times I had a secure rest. All my other shots were in the vacinity of 100 yds, or less. I don't believe that I'd take a shot much beyond 250 with a rest, or beyond 50 off hand.

Andrew: You have offered some very sound advice and wisdom. All of us should know our limitations in shooting, and then try to stick to them. Each of us have different limitations when it comes to shooting, so the limitations for one will not necessarily be the limitations for another. However, we should each know those limitations and stick to them, in spite of "buck(bok) fever" or any encouragement coming from fellow hunters or a PH.

"Long range" is a relative thing.

Hunting on the wide open plains of Southern Namibia for truly wild (not "pen raised") game, ranges will be necessarily longer. Our group shot several animals -- successfully and without wounding any unrecoverable game -- at 350 yards and more. Typical shots were between 200 and 300 yards. For such hunting one must know his rifle and effectively make use of whatever rest is available. I believe our longest offhand shot was more like 150 yards.

Well said. Those of us who shoot at least 2000 rounds per year are usually intimately familar with our weapons, they becoming an extension of our bodies, so this gives regular shooters more leeway. If you don't feel comfortable with a shot, then don't take it, regardless of input to the contrary.

Using a scoped rifle and firing from a steady feild rest if a hunter can get consistent 3 inch or less groups at 100 yards with a cartidge of say 2600 to 3000 fps then that person should be able to make killing shots on game from springbok size and up out to 300 yards. Beyond 300 yards range estimation, wind drift and trajectory become a problem even for experienced hunters. However, most folks are better off limiting their shots to 200 yards or less which for the cartridge perameters listed above allows for a not greater than 4 inch trajectory window with a 100 yard zero and 4 inches of shooter error which is within the 8 inch kill zone of a springbok.

Perry

I won't hunt a rifle that groups less than 1.5" at 100 yards with a chosen factory load, or less that 1 MOA at 100 with worked-up handloads, if I am expecting to have to make a long shot. Allowing for holding, stress, light, and Murphy, a rifle that groups 3" at 100 should be essentially unusable for 300 yard shots.

We just got back and on 14 animals shots ranged from about 75 yards to 260.

We practised for the three monthes before we left shooting reactive targets off sticks. Mostly the 200 metre chicken and 300 metre pig.

Like the famous golf player Gary Player said, "The more I practise, the luckier I get!"

Some people can shoot quite well at long distances and some not. Most important know your limits and boundaries and tell the ph. It will make things much easier for both parties. The ph will not expect more of you and you will not be aligned on long shots out of you boundary from the ph's side.

Practise on different size targets an springbuck's vital area is much smaller than a kudu so you will be able to go after kudu on a longer range than a springbuck for example. Hitting a 10"-12" target at 300 yards consistently will able you to hit any big game (kudu, gemsbuck, hartbees and zebra and so on) at long range in the vitals, as long as you do your part and know the vital area.

Andrew McLaren wrote:

quote:

I will suggest a very general and inaccurate rule of thumb: Your shooting distance is very roughly proportional to the number of rounds fired in practice sessions per year. Less than 100 practice shots per year should limit the average guy to 50 yards attempts. But if you practice some 100 shots, you should be able to make clean kills at 100 yards. The guy who takes 200 practice shots per year coud possibly attempt 150 yards shots. And so on?

Like Safari-Hunt suggested, I think accurate hunting ability has more to do with:
a) Knowing your rifle and it's abilities (trajectories, etc.) extremely well through target shooting at various distances (this also requires a study of the technical data of your bullets, loads used and their performances);
b) Knowing exactly where a shot should be placed on different animals from all possible angles so that it would reach the vitals - so that you won't take impossible shots; and finally
c) Hunt as much as possible, minimum 3 - 4 times per season - there is no better way than getting better each time you hunt than the real experience itself.

Worked well for me over the years so that I can now make it work with the minimum number of practice shots!

All my shots were 200 yds or better for plains game. The longest shot was 280 yds. My hunt was in South Africa. All kinds of game there.

If these figures can help you, they are distances to which my trophies were taken in my RS safari :

BLESBOK 280
BLESBOK WHITE 140
BONTEBOK 93
BUSHBUCK CAPE 231
DUIKER BLUE 20
DUIKER GREY 58
ELAND CAPE 150
GEMSBOK 160
GRYSBOK CAPE 45
HARTEBEEST RED 196
IMPALA SOUTHERN 170
JACKAL 72
KUDU CAPE 170
KUDU GREATER 170
LECHWE RED 179
NYALA 170
REEDBUCK COMMON 300
REEDBUCK MOUNTAIN 280
RHEBOK VAAL 400
SPRINGBOK BLACK 163
SPRINGBOK SOUTH A. 325
SPRINGBOK WHITE 70
TSESSEBE 65
WARTHOG 52
WATERBUCK COMMON 120 WILDEBEEST BLACK 325 WILDEBEEST BLUE 150
ZEBRA BURCHELL'S 80

LMCH

I've shot a over 100 big game animals in my life. This is in the western U.S. and RSA. I've shot more animals under 100 feet, yes feet, than over 100 yards. To me a loonnnggg shot would be anything over 300 yards.

I believe the name of the game is hunting, not shooting. I put alot of time behind binoculars and spotting scopes, find the game, then figure out a way to stalk as close as possible. I've only had to shoot an animal more than one time and that was a water buck that just would not fall down, so I kept hitting him.

I'm an NRA High Power rated Master, so I know how to read wind, mirage, and with a laser range finder, distance is not a guessing game. I know the trajectory of my rifle out to 400 yards and I do this just in case the trophy of a life time appears at that range and I simply can't get any closer. So far I haven't had to make that decision. I think we owe it to the animals we hunt to kill them as quickly and as humanely as possible. My greatest fear is wounding an animal and having it get away. Just my opinion.

In limiting my experience to Africa only on this issue, I've shot over 60 animals, from ele down to steenbok, and most shots have been under 200 yards. I have been required to shoot some between 300 and 400 yards, and a number on the run. I have used double rifles and bolt actions from .270 up through the .470 NE. I still stick to my earlier point that everyone's abilities are different, their prior experiences are different, the types of rifles, sights, loads, terrain, shooting positions (or use or non-use of shooting sticks or aids, etc.) time of day, weather, and reaction to recoil (and past history with recoil) is different, etc. You should intimately know your own limitations and your own abilities, and not take a shot that you know is risky or untried, no matter how much prodding you might get from a fellow hunter or a PH. Although some generalizations can be made for many of us, the best advice that I could give anyone from my limited experience would be to know your own limitations and stick to them.

getting close is what hunting is about for me but i have seen guys that will not walk they will only shoot from a bakkie. They are shooters not hunters yes there is places where hunting from a bakkie is the only way but that is like 10% of the time. if you use the elements right you will get close and you can give a good shot. i zero my rifles at 75m spot on.

hunting is never a perfect world and game doesnt stand still like targets.so elimanate as much off the outside influences as possible by getting close.

lets say the following rules is in place will you take the shot?

1. 0-50m wounded animals 1/2price
2. 51-100m full price
3. 101-150m 1.5 x price
4. 151-250 2x price
5. 251 - 400 3x price

i dont think i would shoot far i would say 80% off wounded animals is shot over 150m .

hi
as a young i have shot plenty of shots att metalic slhluetta upp to 500 meters with a great variety of guns and calibers and know if you can your gun well then it is easy to shoot at long distance, but in hunting situation there are other factors playing rolls like bullet energy and if the the bullets mushrooms at those longer distances to give a clean kill on games.in my opinion 250 meters should be kept the longest ethical range for hunting.
regards
yes

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
hi
as a young i have shot plenty of shots att metalic slhluetta upp to 500 meters with a great variety of guns and calibers and know if you can your gun well then it is easy to shoot at long distance, but in hunting situation there are other factors playing rolls like bullet energy and if the the bullets mushrooms at those longer distances to give a clean kill on games.in my opinion 250 meters should be kept the longest ethical range for hunting.
regards
yes

One other factor is, targets don't take a step at the same time you pull the trigger. @ 300yds, a deer taking a step at that moment will be a miss or a gut shot animal!

I find that most hunters are lucky to keep all thier shots on a stationary 55 gal drum at 300 yds from hunting positions, and I see people shooting at running deer at 300 yds all the time.

Hi Mac
you are right shooting at moving target is not same situation . it is why in Swden where i am living all hunters should be able to shoot right in the spot 4 times in row on a moving target like runing moose@100 yards before they can get their hunter's diploma. otherwise they are not allowded to go hunting do you have same kind of regulation in USA?or texas
yes

The longest shot I have ever taken at a game animal was 300 yds. on a kudu that I killed with one shot.

The kudu was stock still with his neck stretched out eating leaves from a mopane tree. My .338 Win. Mag. rifle was solidly rested on top of a boulder and the wind was directly in my face and therefore not a factor.

Conditions were perfect, so I took the shot. I would not want to shoot at a game animal much farther away than that and then only under such conditions.

Generally, all of my other shots have been inside 250 yds. and usually much closer than that.

Too many people feel like they can stretch the envelope though, at least I think so from more than a few years of observation. "Since I could do it at 300 yds., I ought to be able to do it at 350, or 400, or maybe even 500, right?"

But things get exponentially more complicated and difficult as ranges increase, especially if conditions are not ideal.

As MacD37 says, things can go wrong if an animal bolts just as you fire. I have had shots go wrong for that reason at as little as 100 yds.

They say that woman cant judge distance because their husbands always say their willies is 12"

my point is how many times do you estimate the distance in the bush at 200m and when you measure it its 160m or 225m.

so get close and aim whre you wanna shoot no guess work required

quote:

Like Safari-Hunt suggested, I think accurate hunting ability has more to do with:

a) Knowing your rifle and it's abilities (trajectories, etc.) extremely well through target shooting at various distances (this also requires a study of the technical data of your bullets, loads used and their performances);

b) Knowing exactly where a shot should be placed on different animals from all possible angles so that it would reach the vitals - so that you won't take impossible shots; and finally

c) Hunt as much as possible, minimum 3 - 4 times per season - there is no better way than getting better each time you hunt than the real experience itself.

Jagter,

Nice summary !!!



Point 3 is when you are off the bench and you do not sit comfortable, when you have to shoot quicker before your quarry moves again or behind some bush, when you are losing time to pick one out of the herd to avoid wounding a second one, when the only shot is one that is further than you feel comfortable with or when you need to shoot through openings when they take cover in thick bush, shooting when you are exhausted after a 2 hour walk in the Kalahari sand, etc. Honing your skills in the field.

Warrior