My "friends" at another site are doubting the possible threat to life and limb of going DG hunting in Africa. Certainly, choosing a good guide helps to minimize risk, BUT crap does happen! What kind of DG accident/fatality rates are we looking at? Can anyone provide some information or point me to the proper location for some answers (as below)?

On average and for the whole of Africa, how many hunters (clients & PHs) are (1) killed and (2) Seriously injured by the Dangerous Game they hope to take.

[Dangerous Game to include: Elephant, Rhino, Lion, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, Hippo and Croc.]

On average and for the whole of Africa, how many of the local population is (1) killed and (2) Seriously injured by these same animals.

Any info, in whole or in part, would be welcome. Thanks!

EKM

No matter what statistics you show your friends they will not change their minds. If they can't understand this concept without statistics then anything you say to them is just wasted air.

Try walking from Zembabwaie(sp) to South Africa, without a rifle. If the guy thinks elephants, buffalo, and lion don't know what a rifle looks like, well, for lions, it's dinner time!!!

s

According to Gregor Woods, according to Zim records, to paraphrase:



Getting charged by an ele in thick jesse with a .375 class rifle: You're dead.



Getting charged by an ele in thick jesse with a 416/458 class rifle: 50% chance of survival.



Oh yeah, them 375's are plenty of gun!

The trick is " DON'T GET CHARGED!!!"

"...The trick is " DON'T GET CHARGED!!!"

And for that one has to use an accurate 375

Will, sorry my friend, I just could not help adding that

What GW said reminds me of a well known gun writer, who said if you shoot 10 buffalo, one is bound to charge you.

Glad none of the one I have shot read his article.

This reminds me of the time I was at Holland & Holland, where I had the pleasure of talking to one of their old employees. He was telling me about the new 240 H&H. It shoots a .243 caliber, 100 grain bullet at 2900 fps.

He said it was absolutely the best cartridge for stalking and shooting stags.

I mentioned that it is no better than a 243 Winchester. He answered it was "most definitely" better than ANY 6mm caliber cartridge for stags. Apparently the stags in the UK have been prewarned that if they are shot with any of the H&H cartridges, they are supposed to just roll over and die on the spot.

Saeed, the English stags are cultured, educated, and trained to do the right thing. They roll over and die when the hunter approaches with a .240 H&H. Now, if you believe that one, I have some nice swamp land for sale in Kuwait.

Saeed, my friend, I suspect we will never agree on whether the .375 is enough gun.



As a matter of possible interest, I just bought a Whitworth .375, as now we cannot pass through SA with two rifles of the same caliber, for some unknown and apparently illogical reason, and must leave one of my .416's at home.



The .375 will only be for backup if something should go wrong with the .416. But it is a poor substitute for a real DGR

ELKampMaster



Don't bother about buffalos, elephants and leopards. It's the baboons they shall be scarred of



Saeed, I guess your 375 would be completely useless against redstag since it has the wrong caliber and make. Tommy's posh redstags would never be soo unsofisticated to roll over by a yank rifle



Cheers

/ JOHAN

Will,

We have rifles in 700 NE, 600 NE, 460 Weatherby, 458 and 416 in many different flavours.

You are more than welcome to borrow any of them to use on your hunts - provided, of course, you take the 375 for back up, just in case

I have 2 hill stags (by way of a .243) hanging on the walls of my office, apparently they never knew the difference. By the way both dropped on the spot, eh.

I am now curious. What bullet did you use?

Every year of my life someone has been killed in Africa by dangerous game, I have been to several funerals the last few years, Year before last a PH was killed as a result of a Lion, Last year a girl from Idaho was eaten by crocs at Mana Pools, A tourist was killed and eaten in Kruger by a Lion, two doctors were killed by elephants, Johan Calitz was tossed and screw up badly a few years ago and he is the ultimate PH, Most of the PHs have been tossed, chomped or scratched, at one time or another..Many of the locals are maimed killed by Hippos, elephants, Crocs every year, ocassionally a Lion goes on a rampage even today....I could name instance after instance.

To those who think Africa is a cake walk, they are simply full of s--t....

As to charges, they happen and more often than some think, but they normally happen to people that don't shoot well and when African dangerous game is wounded then it is dangerous game, end of story...

Saeed has killed a lot of Buffalo and never been charged but Saeed shoots them dead center every time, and that is the difference..I have been charged 3 times and in not one instance was it by a Buffalo that I had shot but by a Buffalo that was previously wounded by someone else.

Elephants will charge if the damn wind changes or if they take a notion, and they are dangerous animals, they don't wound you, they kill you....

When one loses his respect for Africa, he deserves whatever he gets, because he is a fool....

We as humans hold the upper hand, we have a brain and weapons, but people like on the other forum of which you speak, are the very ones that are most likely to die in Africa, if they ever get out of their own backyard and they probably won't considering their ignorance to start with. They are the interntet BS artists.

When one loses his respect for Africa, he deserves whatever he gets, because he is a fool....

Ray hit it right on the head. I think this applies to Mother Nature as a whole. Every year back home in Idaho (and almost every state) there are those who go out in pursuit of various activities and think they can ignore Mother Nature. The lucky ones survive but there are several who dont make it due to their own stupidity. Most times a very small or simple item would have prevented their death. I always carry a well stocked 72 hour kit in each of my vehicles. You never know when it will be needed.

I imagine that where dangerous game is concerned this need for respect of Mother Nature is multiplied.

Africa is a �third world continent.� It�s not just the bush and the critters� it�s the infrastructure, that Europeans and Americans take for granted, that creates a great risk. The medical care is suspect at best and the roads are pretty lousy. If there is ANY medical emergency you are at HUGE risk.

Another note is that the statistics for how many natives die is lousy and grossly understated. Many, many, many folks die each year (from ALL causes) and they are not reported. I was a little surprised by the different attitude the natives have about life and death. They are so close to death on a daily basis that they are callous to death� at least from our perspective.

As an example, I have a friend who was a missionary in Zambia and he related me a story about one instance where he was visiting a village and talking to a woman doing her laundry on the river bank in the exact spot where a large crock had taken her sister not one week earlier. Her attitude was one of �bummer, life goes on.�