I need to purchase an additional gun case. Presently, I am using a SKB golf bag hard case which is a bivalve or clamshell type design. The TSA airport security personel lift it up unto a table, open it, rummage around in it, check my gun to see that it is unloaded, and then simply close it. They have free access to the entire contents of the case without having to take anything out. This has worked well for me since 9-11 and the case is holding up well to the airline baggage abuses.

Using a Tuffpak, in the past they would have opened the case from the top, unzipped the soft sided gun case, and slid the gun up to see if it was unloaded, and then slid it back into the soft case.

Has anyone had the experience of the TSA security screeners pull everything out of the tuffpak? I am concerned having to repack all of it while at the airport. I know that you can "bag" your loose items in the tuffpak but I am concerned about getting everything back in that I so carefully packed when at home.

TSA security also talks about cutting off locks to screen bags. With a Tuffpak, would they have to drill the lock to get in the case?

Has anyone had the experience where the airline employee at check-in complained about having so many other items packed in your "gun case"? That happened to me the last time I flew with my "gun case" to Canada.

Thanks.

Ron L

Went to RSA in May. Initial check for unloaded firearms was uneventful. I asked if they needed the key and at my small airport they said no, and checked the chambers at the check-in. Subsequent check in RSA and customs checks upon return were also uneventful.

I'd suggest putting your boots on top of the rifles as it made the Ag check in Atlanta easy.

On our trip to Namibia several months ago, the TSA folks wanted to see everything in the Tuff-Pak. We use the Tuff-Sak inside the Tuff-Pak, so it was not a problem. In addition to two rifles in soft cases, I had a cleaning rod, shooting sticks, a video camera tripod and our binoculars packed in the Tuff-Sak.

Simply lay the Tuff-Pak down on a table or on the floor and pull the Tuff-Sak out, unzip it and they can see everything inside. Once they are through rumaging around, just reorganize things in the Tuff-Sak and slide it back in the Tuff-Pak. It really is no big deal and only takes a couple of minutes.

If you pack a bunch of small stuff or clothing in the Tuff-Sak, just pack it in large zip-lock bags so it is easy to remove and replace without handling lots of individual items.

Maybe my rifles are longer than most, or maybe my size 14 boots are bigger than the average bear's, but I don't have room for boots on the top or bottom of the Tuff-Pak. I usually make a point of packing them inside a garbage bag and put them on the top in my duffel bag. They are easy to find when the Agriculture folks want to treat them in Customs, and if they are still a little wet after they spray them, the plastic bag keeps them away from the other stuff in the duffel bag.

Ron,

I've flown with my TuffPak on four roundtrips. The contents were removed only once, in Denver, due to local firearms policies.
They emptied the TuffPak, then replaced everyting themselves; you are not allowed to touch the case again (they even lock it up for you).

At Newark-Liberty, 'normal' procedure is to show the ticket agent that the guns are unloaded, and complete the firearms declaration.

Leaving the TuffPak closed, but unlocked, the ticket agent walks you over to TSA with your gun case, where you show TSA the declaration, put it in the gun case, and lock it back up.

The TSA ideally puts a sticker on the case indicating it has been scanned, and you're on your way.

George

Your concerns are well founded and good to ask about. I travel very frequently with a rifle and or Archery equipment on the airlines.



The do have the 100% right to cut off or otherwise forcefully open you luggage if they see fit for any reason at all. Nothing we are going to do about that in the near future.



As far as the TSA security unloading your "tuffpak" for inspection that is very possible so I would suggest you only pack a gun(s) in there and maybe a coat or other single bulky item. The worry you expressed in the post is that they would unpack the case to inspect it and you would have to try and re-fit/ re-pack it at the airport. That sounds like a good plan but the situation is far worse then that in reality. Once TSA has the case and unloads it, you cannot touch it again. The repacking must be done by TSA ONLY. You are not allowed to touch your luggage once it's gone past that security line. Now when everything springs out of your suit case after it has been carfully fitted by you in your home, the TSA guy(lady) must figure out how you did it. All this while the line behind you is building and the other people are not very pleasent when in a long que!



I strongly suggest you use a product called "space bags" to pack your things with. I have been using them for years now and the luggage can be inspected and repacked very easily with the individual bags of clothes and gear. I do not own a Tuffpack but have very carefully considered them as a gun case option. It's just my opinion but I prefer to have pad lockable luggage. I then include spare opened locks in my suit case/ gun case with a laminated note asking TSA to kindly relock my case with the spare locks if they found it necassary to cut my locks for inspection.



These locks have been used exactly twice now. Once when connecting in Houston when returning from a hunt in Tennessee, and once when I returned from RSA two weeks ago. Both times TSA( maybe customs when returning from RSA?) cut the locks off of my gun case and used the spare lock packed inside the case.



Because of these two events I'm a little more spooked about using luggage with integral locks. Now there is another way to solve this, I think? When you have your luggage inspected by the TSA folks politely insist on having the TSA agent seal the case with the security tape over the opening, or with a TSA serial numberd zip tie (security seal) through the same hole the pad lock is in. I have not had them cut a lock off when sealed this way. The TSA guys have these seals handy at every checkpoint I have been through.



Oddly enough the rules state the guns must be in a locked case but if they cut the locks off to inspect it and you don't include a spare lock, or if the integral style locks must be drilled out or otherwise broken the case would be left unlocked for the trip. It's not very likely that they will see an obvious looking gun case, Xray it and then still decide to cut the locks off. Another reason to include only a rifle without alot of other "stuff" in the case. Make the Xray equipment work as well as possible so they can clearly see what is inside.



The integral locks of the tuff pack are a real negative in my opinion. The benifit of additional storage inside the Tuff pack is not something I would gain from because I would not want the difficulty of TSA repacking or the Xray equipment looking over "unknown gear" inside that case tempting them to forcefully open it.



For those reasons I'm still using my 15 year old aluminum case made by Impact case company. Not nearly as famous as the tuffpack but I have never needed a single click of scope adjustment with 100s of flights of which half have been to Africa. My poor case is awfully beat up and dented but it's still 100% functional.

Ron,

I have not had them do the rummaging routine (shoping for something?) in my TuffPak. I have only been asked to show unloaded or the serial number, both can be done by sliding the gun from the soft case if you organize that properly.

I wrap outer garments around the stuff packed with the rifle cases, and use a couple of small bungie cords to wrap it into a bundle (sort of a cheaper TuffSak) that will slide in and out of the TuffPak.

The biggest thing I have noticed traveling and comparing notes here is the total lack of uniformity of procedures from airport to airport.

jim dodd

Having just returned from Namibia I can tell you that at no time did anyone ask to look at all of the contents in my Tuffpak. I started at Jackson, WY then to Salt Lake then to Atlanta, then to JoBerg then to Windhoek and the same route coming back. The only thing checked was serial numbers and whether they were unloaded. If they had wanted to check the entire contents, no big deal if you have it all packed in a Tuff Sack.

John

I have about 10 or 15 trips with my Tuff Pak and I put coats, sweaters etc in the bottom, two guns in thick padded cases left open at the top...I just slide them up to the serieal number, let them record them, then drop the gun back in..If I have one double rifle in a short case I build up the bottom with coats to make it level with the top..I may put cameras and whatever in a single bag under that, in there also....

It has never been a problem with me, nor have I ever been asked to unload it but when ask I just tell them its clothing and a couple of cameras..but I keep up a very good rapport with the officials, greetings and smiles, an attitude will cause you way more problems than a Tuff Pak.....

I didn't buy a Tuffpak until after Sept. 11. The first trip I took it on was a pig hunt in California -- flew in and out of Oakland, and their X-ray machines aren't big enough to handle the Tuffpak (or a golf case). So they unpacked and inspected and repacked it. Not a problem if you use the inner "Tuff Sack" and don't overpack.

The TSA supervisor asked me what caliber my rifle was -- when I told him .280 he told me about an Argentine Mauser he was having redone in the same chambering!

As for the lack of uniformity -- that all goes back to the airport's screening resources, and the physical space they have to fit them into. Some airports have X-rays right in the terminal, others have to bury them down in the bowels somewhere and page you if there's a problem. (I put a tag with my cell # on the case.) Some don't have room for X-rays and just use a swab test. I don't expect the variation to change.

Is there any problem with using the big 1750 model Pelican Case while traveling? I would think that it would stand up to the baggage handlers under their normal fiascos. Then it would have nothing else in the case except for the rifle/s

Just curious.

Red

The regs have, for many years, required that a gun case remain locked while transported by airline. If you have a case with integral lock and that lock is destroyed by TSA inspectors, I believe that it would be illegal for the case to go aboard the airplane.

Certainly they might just send it along, but imagine the consequences if they refused. Especially on the way home to U.S.

A friend of mine had an expensive Haliburton suitcase with integral lock. Security screening going from Brazil back to the U.S. destroyed his lock with no agology, and his clothes were falling out when he retrieved the case at baggage claim here.

The idea of keeping spare locks inside the case, open and with no keys, is outstanding. If I had a gun case with integral lock I would find some way of attaching the tabs for an external lock and keeping spares inside as mentioned.

About a year ago at ORD, they insisted I unlock my rifle case after it had been through the X-Ray machine: "...so we can swab-test it for explosives." I told them that, since it was a gun, it probably WOULD test positive. They did not get the joke, and certainly would have cut the locks off if I had not been there.

Dago- That is a heck of a good product.You get tremendous flexibility and a separate lock feature, which I like.

Examples of TSA seals, also notice that my suitcase is a pelican with seperate tabs for padlocks!













The advantage of sepearatly packing with space bags allow easy sorting through your things for TSA and customs

Ron,



These are MY experiences with the Tuffpak over the past two years with trips to Africa in June, 2003 and one to NZ a couple weeks ago. Everyone's mileage might vary.



First, Africa.



At Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport, I checked in at the Delta counter and made sure my bags were checked ALL THE WAY THROUGH to Johannesburg, got the requisite "Unloaded Firearms" tag and stuck it in the case. The pretty young thing behind the counter never asked to check the gun, however.



She then directed me to leave the case UNLOCKED and proceed to TSA's monster machine, which was only 30 feet away. She obviously already knew they would be checking the guns. They ran the gun case and my large soft bag through, then one guy grabbed the gun case and another latched onto the big bag, which had the ammo in it.



My wife and I stood nearby but outside a low fence while the first dude slid off the top. He was about to pull the guns upward. Since I had much more in it than the two rifles, it was at that point I suggested he lay the case down and simply slide out the zippered case for easier reloading. He actually laughed and said, "Thank you!" As he examined the guns, we carried on a bit of banter, mostly involving the trip. When he was done, he slid the whole works back in, sealed it, asked me for the key and locked the lid.



In the meantime, the other dude was cutting the ties on my zippers and checking the two MTM plastic boxes that were filled with my .264 and .300 WM ammo. Satisfied, he replaced it and even put new ties on the zippers.



In South Africa I laid the case down and pulled the zippers on the inner cases so the SAP folks could check the serial numbers. There were no other inspections until I returned to Atlanta where customs checked my 4457 form against the serial numbers. Since my bags had been tagged to go through to Phx and we hadn't left the secure area of the terminal, I simply went to Delta's connecting baggage line and handed it to them. It was locked then so although TSA MIGHT have sent it thru a machine again, they didn't physically look inside.



And NOW, to the NZ trip.



The Phoenix departure on America West, basically mirrored the other one, even though the terminal was mobbed because of the Memorial Day weekend. It was so crowded around the check-in counter, I finally convinced the young lady to take my word that the guns were unloaded because there wasn't too much space to lay the case down. Then she personally walked me to the TSA machine a short distance away. While the TSA gal was thankful for my suggestion on laying the case down, she did it out of my sight. Then she returned for the key. The crabby inspector that did my other bag was the type that didn't seem to care for her job too much.



Now here's the humorous part. My ammo had set off The explosive detector when it went through the machine. That's why she was checking that bag. So she tears into the main part, removing half the stuff on to the table. Done with that, she accepts the new plastic ties that I had given to one of her co-workers nearby and proceeds to reseal it. Then instead of using the handles, she lifts the bag, which was close to the 70 lb. limit, in her arms, walks to the conveyor and drops it about two feet on to the belt. I immediately told her that I had two pairs of binoculars in it that were worth close to $2,000 and didn't appreciate how she tossed it. And guess what? She NEVER even unsealed the bag's outside pocket where the ammo was packed for easy access.



Bags were checked thru and transferred to Air NZ at LAX without incident. At Auckland, we went thru customs after obtaining our gun licenses at the police office that's between the baggage area and customs. They ran the bags thru the X-ray machine; no inside inspections.



On the return, only X-rays done in NZ. Although I had checked my bags thru to Phoenix, we still had to pick them up to go thru customs, just as in Atlanta on the return from Africa. Again, 4457s were compared against the guns' serial numbers.



So now it's on to the line that takes the checked thru baggage for connections. TSA is set up to X-ray the bags right there, but the guy, who barely spoke understandable English, tells me he can't take the Tuffpak because there are too many bends in the conveyor at that point. Likewise for my hunting partner who was using a conventional flat, 2-gun aluminum case. So we leave the big bags and wheel the gun cases off to the terminal, which means we have to go through TSA again!! Same routine, same result. Told to leave the case unlocked and proceed to the machine.



This time the guy that took it was very pleasant, and knowing it was firearms, he asked me to walk around the side to the back area so we could lock the case afterward. I made my usual suggestion after he ran the Tuffpak thru the machine. By then he was laughing a bit because, as he put it, the machine wanted him to check my tripod rather than the guns. In the meantime, another inspector walked over and started to chat, asking me where I had been, etc. The other guy joined in while running a swab for explosives on my camera tripod. All in all, although it was another hassle to go thru, at least this one was sort of friendly.



That's it. So, in reality, Anything MIGHT happen, depending on the airport and especially on what the alert level might be. So don't count on anything but don't discount anything either. -TONY

Yes I had exactly what your concern was happen. We were leaving Greenville SC in route to Tanzania. The TSA guys wanted to see everything in it. They wouldn't let me help repack. When they locked it after loosely stuffing it in as best they could they didn't get it locked. They thought they had locked it but they didn't. They sent it on anyway. In Amsterdam as we were boarding we had to go round and round with the baggage folks. They asked why I had attempted to ship a rifle without being locked. I asked how I was supposed to check if it was locked when the TSA wouldn't let me see my bag after they inspected it? They just said it was my responsibility to see that it was done correctly. They sealed it up and sent it on. I don't think it is good for me to tell how they sealed it. Not good. If anybody is going to get into a "traveling with firearms" hassle it seems to be me. Just look innocent I guess. "D"