I posted on Gunsmithing w/out a reply. It's more of a DG rifle question so maybe someone here can offer some input.

I want to put a partridge front sight (probably NECG) along w/ a receiver mounted ghost-ring on a Ruger77 project rifle. My preference for a fixed sight only rifle would be something permanent and simple like the sight John Ricks made for JJ Hack. But, I want the option of a scope so this is ruled out.

I cannot figure out how to install a permanent mounted peep that allows use of a scope. The only options I've come up w/ are the NECG Ruger peep or the XS Ruger peep.

Does anyone have experience w/ these sights on a bolt rifle? My concerns are the NECG model would block too much field of view compared to the XS, and the XS would be too much of a pain to take-off and put-on in the field. I also looked at the Brockman GenIII sight. It appears to be more like the XS version affording a better field of view but also apears to be better suited for a permanent installation.

Any input would be appreciated, Thanks!

Gary

Gary,
I can't really help you with what would be a good alternative but I can tell you that I don't think the NECG peep site would be acceptable for dangerous game as it does indeed block a large area from view and has a fairly small aperature. I find them fairly slow to aquire a good sight picture.

Wes

What about a bolt peep?

Gary,

Did you see Brockman's peep that's permanently mounted in the Talley scope base?

The other thing I've seen recently is on old Griffin and Howe style Springfield 03 sporters: some have permanent receiver peeps and the side mount type of scope mounts.

Steve

Any reciever sight with a screw in appature can be used as a ghost ring. Just unscrew the appature, instant ghost ring.



I know that you did not ask about the Lyman sights, but the results are the same.

Hog Killer

Mickey, I've yet to see a bolt peep that would work w/ the Ruger.

Steve, the Brockman/Talley pop-up would require milling/changing the integral Ruger bases. Don't think I want to go that route.

Hog Killer, correct..the standard threaded sight that accepts the screw in peep is .218" or .230" the same as the xs large ghost ring. The problem is which one can I leave on and mount a scope. If not, which one can be taken on and off easily in the field so I can mount a scope. The smaller and simpler the better. The Lyman is bulkier than I wanted.

I think the XS sight has one mounting screw and a locator pin that is inline w/ the receiver. I'm unsure if the mounting screw is retained in the sight body, but if I need to carry one small screwdriver and don't lose the mounting screw(maybe it can be retained somehow) I should be able to manage this sight in the field. A sight like the Brockman GenIII would require keeping track of two screws and may be too tall to regulate on the Ruger. It looks like the NECG sight is not the best choice even w/ the peep removed. It's a solid block of steel from just above the .230 hole the width of the rifle down. I cannot see how it will ghost out like a proper ghost sight.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:


Hog Killer, correct..the standard threaded sight that accepts the screw in peep is .218" or .230" the same as the xs large ghost ring. The problem is which one can I leave on and mount a scope. If not, which one can be taken on and off easily in the field so I can mount a scope. The smaller and simpler the better. The Lyman is bulkier than I wanted.

Gary

First, Gary, the Ruger rings do not return to zero well! That being said, I have a Lyman reciever sight on an old Mauser 30-06 that once zeroed can be removed by simply push a button and lifting it out of it's base, leaving the top of the rifle clean for scope mounting. It the reviever sight returns to zero perfectly when returned to it's base, and has the screw out peep. I would mount either Warne, or Tally mounts, for the scope, and the Lyman for the peep. I don't remember the number of the Lyman, and the rifle is in the back of a gun vault with about sixty rifles in front of it. If you really want the number, I'll certainly dig this old rifle out, and look! I have handled HOG KILLER's 458LOTT rifle, and the sight works well! Let me know if you need the number!

The sight on my Ruger safari rifle in .375H&H is NECG rear peep and the factory front. It works beautifully. The NECG front sight is rather large so I went back to the factory front bead. The NECG rear peep is a precision device that returns to zero every single time. I use it much more than the Leopold 2.5 fixed power scope. In fact, it works so well that I would probably buy another Ruger rather than a M70 or M700 just so I could use the NECG peep.

Gary;
I have a Talley pop-up peep sight with a NECG partridge blade on the front sight on my .458 Lott. I have used this several times on dangerous game and really like it. Target aquisition in my opinion is very fast and accurate. All shots however, have been taken at under forty yards.

Mac, Thanks! I already started looking at the Lyman in my Brownell's catalog but I cannot find a model for the Ruger. Williams carries a FP model for the 77 that requires the removal or loosening of one screw to remove. Still not sure that is the route I want to go.

I have several Rugers w/ integral bases that are repeatable w/ Talley or Leupold ringmounts. I would like to retain the factory receiver integral bases. I've never used the Ruger rings except for on my 454 Casull but that returns to zero fairly well. If you're refering to the receiver integral bases not being repeatable I disagree, If you're speaking of the Ruger ringmounts themselves I would tend to lean in your favor.

Clif, It appears that the NECG would be the best sight for ease of installation/removal, repeatability and durability. It doesn't cost that much so I may just get one anyway and give it a try. I am the oposite w/ the front sight. My RSM still carries the factory express(1-standing, 2-folding sights). The factory brass bead is very precise in fair light at the range but is hard for me to pick-up in low light or in anything thick/dark. I like a larger bead around .090-.100"(3/32) for the v express and a partridge blade at least as wide for a ghost ring.

Peashooter, Is the Talley pop-up mounted on a Ruger? Is it the Talley removeable peep that saddles the Talley base or is it the Brockman pop-up that is made into the Talley base? If on a Ruger, did you have to mill the front and rear bridges of the receiver to fit the Talley bases? I didn't want to loose the Ruger receiver integral bases but may consider converting them to the Talley if it can be done cleanly (not shoddy looking).

Thanks,
Gary

Gary
My set up is built on a Winchester receiver. If you are considering a switch to the Brockamn peep sight I would call Jim Brockman for advice on how to proceed.I also use a low power scope with Talley quick detach rings and have never had a problem with the rings coming lose under recoil.

quote:

CHOMP, text removed... In fact, it works so well that I would probably buy another Ruger rather than a M70 or M700 just so I could use the NECG peep.

FYI, NECG also makes (imports really) a Weaver base model of the rear peep, so no need to buy Ruger it you don't want to.

Gary,

I also had an issue with the stock front bead on my RSM and went to a (NECG) 3/32 White front bead. It shows up pretty good against darker targets and goes to black with brightly lit lighter ones.

And no I don't have anything to do with NECG, they just happened to have a couple of products that took care of some things I felt needed "fixing"

Since my old eyes can't see a v-notch sight any more, I made a ghost ring sight for my CZ 550 that went in the sight mounting dovetail on the barrel. It is sturdy as hell and out of the way and best of all I can see it. The only negative might be that the sight radius is a little short. It is plenty good for minute-of-animal accuracy.

Your going to have problems with the Ruger as I am sure you realize by now, nothing will work on it but the NECG as is....

Best solution is to surface grind the top, mount fitted Talley/Brockman pop up peep sight..Its clean, a one time deal and they work.

But dovetailing a shallow V sight into Rugers existing quarter rib is a great option, then get a big 3/32 ivory bead from NECG or Brownells, its a great combination for short range shooting...

Return to zero isn't great on Rugers, but a good smith can machine them to perfection and even put levers on them for quick detachment. problem solved.

That's pretty much your choices, I think the NECG peep will suit you and thats the cheapest alternative, combine it with the 3/32 ivory bead made for the Ruger...

that's about your only alternative..A side mounted reciever never seems to work on a Ruger because of the intrgal scope bases and hight of the front sight...

Been most of these routes with Ruger. I like the fitted Talleys with a Brockman peep or the shallow V..I don't like the ruger rear sight, its a little cheesy IMO..and flip up rear sights are not good on DGRs.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Mr. Atkinson, I greatly appreciate your sage advice. It's clear that your opinion reflects years of practical experience, and it is apparent that you waste little time w/ things that do not work for you. I on the other hand am the eternal optimist continually trying to reinvent the wheel turning the proverbial chicken sh*t into chicken salad.

I'll post a follow-up when I get it figured out.

Thanks,
Gary

AO sights makes a rear ghost ring for the Ruger, I think (check Brownells catalog). They make one for the Weaver base also. I used the "high" version on the Mod. 70 with Leupold/Weaver bases and is the correct height.

Thanks Will, That is one of the sights I'm trying to get input on (AO and XS are the same). It's a specific model to the ruger and mounts on the rear bridge. Drill and tap to mount (front hole is mounting screw, rear hole is locator pin). I was hoping someone on AR w/ this sight on a Ruger could give me some feedback. My only concern would be if this setup can be removed and replaced or is it better for a permanent installation.

Thanks,
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:
Mickey, I've yet to see a bolt peep that would work w/ the Ruger.

Gary

What's wrong with this one? Can be dovetailed or soldered to the cocking piece.

I worry about cocking piece peeps on rifles with heavy recoil. Additionally, I think that fussing around with trying to combine a peep and scope in a heavy rifle is making a mountain of a molehill. At dangerous game ranges, there isn't any real reason for a scope, in spite of all the hoo-rah you get here about reduced light, thick jess, etc. Just find whatever kind of good target peep fits your rifle and take out the screw-in disc. It's worked for me on two buffalo and numerous plainsgame.

For some reason peep sights are not common on DGRs. Perhaps that is because the DGR industry is heavily influenced by British tradition, and peep sights are mostly an American phenomena.

This was my solution to having a regular sight available in case my scope failed. I left a single fold-down leaf on the rifle which gives me a zero of 125 yards with a standard 180 grainer. This is for my 30-338 but I also have the same set-up on my 375 HH.
I have the Leupold QR mounts which I milled down to the edge of the torx-screw head. This groove allows me to see the rear and front sight for aiming once the scope is removed.
NECG also makes a peep for the Ruger which incorporates the integral mounting system. It is very quick on and off and is very accurate for DG ranges.
Frank