A friend of mine once told me that in the 1950s pygmy was on the general game licence. I couldn’t believe this but looking through the Internet for evidence I came across this on the National Geographic website:

“By the end of the 18th century, only 150 years after the arrival of the Dutch at the Cape of Good Hope, thousands of Bushmen (San) had been shot and killed, and many more were forced to work for their colonial captors. The new British government vowed to stop the fighting. They hoped to “civilize” the Bushmen by encouraging them to adopt a more agricultural lifestyle but were unsuccessful. By the 1870s the last Bushmen of the Cape were hunted to extinction. Other Bushman groups were able to survive the European encroachment despite continued threats. The last license to hunt Bushmen was reportedly issued in Namibia by the South African government in 1936.”

I can’t believe this and does anyone have any more evidence they can share with me.

Does anyone have a photo of an old game licence with them on it?

I do believe that I've seen pics of an actual mounted human (Sans) from a very old private collection in Spain. It was from the turn of the centruy.
Can't for the life of me remember where I saw that pic though!

The State of California had an official state policy of genocide against its Indians. They would reimburse bounty hunters so much for each scalp. It was a written law. I believe Texas also had a similar policy. It is not surprising that the same sort of thing would happen in Africa.

Indeed they were. Under circumstances not unlike those the Native Americans experienced over many decades with early European settlers.

Life for indigenous peoples throughout the world was pretty tough during the colonial period. Onthe other hand, they generally stopped warring with each other once they had a common white enemy.

I once asked someone what the strangest thing he's ever seen in a trophy room. He said he knows of a couple guys with bushmen in their trophy rooms. He told me the same thing as you, Sidney, about them being on the license back in the 1950's.

... I was expecting him to say something like a snow leopard or a gorilla.

I've read that shooting aboriginals was popular sport in Victorian Austrailia for some, too. They were belived to be subhuman and therefore game animals.

There is an urban legand here in Australia that a old guy came out of the bush in NT/QLD/WA (depends on who's telling the story) walked into the local police station and asked if he could renew his licence to hunt aborigionals . Now I don't know if that is true BUT....

A mate of mine's mum (now in her eightys) lived on a property in the south of western Australia. When she was a little girl there used to be an old bloke living there who was a timber cutter and at that time he was in his sixty's (give or take)The timber cutter had a tabacco pouch made from the scrotom of an aborgional! Aparently he got it when he was a young man, so were talking late 1800's.

Who has done the taxidermy?

It's kind of sickening to think

about hunting people as game aniamls.

Man's inhumanity to man...

Dentist, I have a friend from high school that went to work for a famous taxidermy shop about 1980. He had a famed hunter pull him to the side one day and offer him a great deal of money to do some extracurricular taxidermy work. Read San.

Thankfully my friend was bright enough to refuse and even make a joking reference to the cops finding out.

It is hard for us to imagine the arrogance necessary to think of a human being as "game."

Usually only governments can reduce human life to such a menial value.

j

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro_of_Banyoles

There are also images online that I hesitate to post here.

That is really creepy.

There was a similiar story about James Mellon, i believe. But he diddn`t hunt humans.

I have also heard of "reproductions" being integrated into elephant mounts...

Just from my knowledge of what took place with American Indians, up until the early 1900's, the more educated more religious, and I am not just referring to Christians, felt that the "Lesser" races, Bushmen(San)/Aborigines/American Indians, were basically no different than the other available game in an area.

Not only are there mounted specimens, there are also numerous references of what would be considered cannabalism in regards to the killing of these "Lesser" species.

Too many of us, in our modern world of Political Correctness lose sight of the fact that basically we are not all that far removed from Cro-Magnon ancestors in many aspects.

Our supposed civilazation is the only thing that keeps some of our primal feelings and actions at bay. JMO.

quote:

Our supposed civilazation is the only thing that keeps some of our primal feelings and actions at bay. JMO.

And quite often that civilization doesn't slow some people down at all. Murder, rape, robbery, and mayhem are still quite common. Just turn on any TV news show and watch.

We're just not mounting the trophies anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just from my knowledge of what took place with American Indians, up until the early 1900's, the more educated more religious, and I am not just referring to Christians, felt that the "Lesser" races, Bushmen(San)/Aborigines/American Indians, were basically no different than the other available game in an area.

I think it depends on who and where. For example, one of Jefferson's primary goals for the Lewis and Clark expedition was to find conclusive evidence that American Indians were of the lost tribes of Israel. He, along with many "enlightenend" of the age belived them to be lost peers of Western Europeans whereas black Africans were considered separate.

I think this modern era (post WWII) with many exceptions, is the first time in human history the the concensus favors the idea that hunting lesser cultures for sport, slavery or eradication is immoral. It's a thin veneer of civility that could vanish overnight with sufficient social stress.

quote:

And quite often that civilization doesn't slow some people down at all. Murder, rape, robbery, and mayhem are still quite common. Just turn on any TV news show and watch.

We're just not mounting the trophies anymore.

Bingo, Game-Set and Match.

To take the subject off course a little, how many of us have really considered what we will do, if our nations latest experiment results in the complete collapse of out society?

I have. I'm going huntin'.

This is something that I did not know but wasn't surprised to read.

quote:

It's a thin veneer of civility that could vanish overnight with sufficient social stress.

You have nailed it in that single sentence.However noble and correct the present attitude towards being nice to our fellow humans, any stress/situation that upsets our comfort very rapidly alters our benevolence and few are immune from that temptation.A few job losses and redundancies or one can't buy a few more bottles of alcohol or a regular holiday cancelled, our wrath stirs into action.

Best-
Locksley,R

Hell,you only have to look back as recently as WWII to realize this sort of behavior hasn't left us. the Nazi's considered Jews as subhuman and treated them accordingly and the Japanese belief system wasn't much different- witness the beheadings which occurred during the Bataan death march

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I have. I'm going huntin'.

+1, and in my newly "acquired" Ferrari hunting vehicle.

Oh how far we have come.... Link

The idea of hunting other people FOR SPORT, the way we hunt elephant and deer today,

and used to hunt Silver Back Gorillas and Tigers, is very different from politically

motivated and religiously motivated and self defense motivated killing of one person

by another, [or one group of people killing another group of people]. Political war,

ala the USA and allies vs Germany and Japan, the so called Christian crusades, and an

80 year old shooting to death a 22 year old who is attempting to rape her are all scen-

arios that the civilized person wishes never had to go so far. But Hitler had to be

stopped and so on. For me though, to think about going to buy a license/tag that then

gives me a government sanctioned right to kill another human being FOR THE SHEAR SPORT

OF IT is nauseating.

Not to high jack this thread, for many of you that don't know, the State of Illinois had an official extermination order against the Mormons that was issued by Governor Lilburn Boggs and that stayed on the books for approximately 150 years. Just in the latter part of the last century (late 1980's or 1990s I believe) did the State of Illinois officially rescind it and offer an offical public apology to the Mormon Church. Hard to believe, but very true.

.

I remember seeing a copy of a hunting license in an old book that included TWO BUSHMEN.

And on a lighter note.

A hunter was showing all his trophies to his friend, when they came to a pair of large black hairy balls.

The hunter said "I bagged him coming out of Ethel's tent"

Alf - outside of Namibia (in the period 1890-1910) nobody has alowed 'sport hunting' of bushmen (san). They were shot as semi official policy of the various southern african governments as measures against stock theaft. A bushman could never resist a cow or sheep.... The hotentots were also a koisan people, but they were mostly enslaved and 'bred' into extinction as they intermingled with the malay slaves brought into south africa.

In 1981, the new government of zimbabe reversed the 50 year old policy of Rhodesia to 'live and let live' with the bushmen who lived and hunted in Hwange national park. The army with the suport of cuban helicopter crew and North korean instructors were sent in. No prisoners was the policy, and it is safe to say that tourists will no longer encounter bushmen living in Hwange....

I don't know about licences as such, but the San were very definitely hunted, and right where my ranch is now too.
I have magnificent stoneage (c 10 000 year old) rock engravings that they left behind.

There were reports of pygmies being canniblized in The Congo in this decade.

I have seen a license with bushmen included.
I believe there were two on a standard license along with all of the other game. I will try to find it but its been 10 years since i dug it up on the internet.
So yes, we did once hunt bushmen as animals.

I am almost afraid to ask,what do you measure to determine if he is a trophy.
JD

Bushmen are one of those unfortunates of this world. They were persecuted by their Bantu neighbors long before they ever saw a white man.

Thanks for all the info.

i can't believe anyone would want to hunt another human but it evidently happened.

quote:

Originally posted by Sidney Hiscox:
Thanks for all the info.

i can't believe anyone would want to hunt another human but it evidently happened.

I can think of a few I would gladly hunt. I think Osama is being hunted to this day as were a number of Nazis after WWII.

Perry

Rooipoort Nature Preserve outside Kimberley was established as a hunting reserve for Cecil Rhodes in 1893. They still have the original building that was constructed for use on the lodge called The Shooting Box. Rhodes died before the lodge was finished, but it has been used ever since by DeBeers and their guests. Probably 15 years ago they opened the reserve to foreign hunters but the Shooting Box remained exclusive to DeBeers executives and their guests.

When I hunted there some 12 years ago as a guest of Paul Phelan (he managed the hunting on Rooipoort) our party was allowed a tour of the Shooting Box. They still had the official game "registry" or journal of animals taken for each party. One of the entries was shown to me and it simply listed a few antelope, a few birds and one Bushman. I believe the date was somewhere around 1902 or so.

CVS now has the hunting rights on Rooipoort and I believe you can actually pay a bit extra now to stay at the shooting box. Whether the log is still there is unknown to me, but I would imagine that some of those relics have been removed or put up.

The most impressive thing in the Shooting box was a painting that took up an entire wall of the great room that was a map of the reserve- handpainted with photos of animals, distinctive landmarks on the property, etc.

If anyone wants to hunt a bit of history get a hold of CVS.

Regards,
John Barth

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I remember seeing a copy of a hunting license in an old book that included TWO BUSHMEN.

And on a lighter note.

A hunter was showing all his trophies to his friend, when they came to a pair of large black hairy balls.

The hunter said "I bagged him coming out of Ethel's tent"

Saeed, I have seen what is probably that same license in a book. I think it is one of my books, but some of them are acked away.

You are correct it was 2 Bushman.

http://www.southpacifictaxider...om/html/brothers.htm

you can see some pictures of the native mount on the link

Speaking of hunting humans, has any group of people in the history of the world been hunted more than the Jews? I am pretty much a Texas ranch kid and we grew up mostly isolated from the world, so I never had much of an understanding of anti-semantic thought; but man have they seem to have drawn a raw deal on many occasions.

By the way, I absolutely don't mean to start any group against group discussion. I am pro-all groups that are for freedom and justice. I just wanted to point out something that I noticed for myself.

josh

Please do not get the impression I'm making excuses for them or condoning any such thing, however... I caution everyone in your judging of past practices. We are viewing such things in the context of our modern morals. As untasteful as it may seem to us, this happened in very different times.

As revolting as the practice of slavery is today that principal has only become ingrained in the last few genereations and is rumored to continue (as acceptable) in some places. With that in mind, abolitionists were a small vocal unpopular lot at one time in fairly recent history. Who's to say today's animal rights people will not one day be viewed as abolitionists are today and we (game) hunters the same way we are now seeing these old time (human) "hunters?"

It's oh so easy to condeem the past by present standards. Much more difficult to envision how the future will judge us!

Well said Oupa