This big one was seen in the Malipati Safari Area yesterday. I just linked the photo from JWK Safaris.

Wow I guess they did not have a hunter? Or he did not want his pic taken?

Would be a treat to see an elephant like that in the wild . . . snap a picture, maybe even make an approach and put the rifle up and dry fire it . . . but to shoot it wandering out of the park . . . not for me.

That has to be incredible to walk up on. Saw this on their facebook page earlier today.

I'd have trouble not shooting if it was legal. A lot of trouble......

I can dream, can't I?

Wow...the Stuff of Legend....
What a magnificent animal.
If I had a permit...absolutely. But it is also great just to see these special types of animals roaming free..

A fantastic elephant..

I think he should be taken by someone older than him!



Best regards D. Nelson

Beautiful!
Any weight guesstimates? I would believe that he should be carrying around 85 by side?

What a grand old gentleman and a very rare sight today.

Oh my sainted Aunt!

Wow.

It's amazing to see such a big tusker still wandering around

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Would be a treat to see an elephant like that in the wild . . . snap a picture, maybe even make an approach and put the rifle up and dry fire it . . . but to shoot it wandering out of the park . . . not for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Torbjørn:
It's amazing to see such a big tusker still wandering around

Totally agree! It's WONDERFUL to see such an incredible old bull still wandering around.

Guys,

IMO When the hunting Gods smile on you and present you with a trophy of a lifetime I think it is poor form to not take advantage of it. Hunting does not have to be a butt buster to be fulfilling. Cats and elephants are often hunted along park boundaries and in the buffer zones adjacent to the park. What makes this elephant different?

Mark

There were only 2 things missing from my Safari in Malipati.
I didn't see any lions or a big bull like this one.

Mark I agree with you. Areas like Malipati are a buffer zone between the parks and the people. There very design is to help protect and control the park population.

I'm neither confused or conflicted. As awesome a sight as that elephant is, if I were there hunting elephant I would take him immediately.
I applaud and respect those who see it differently, including my good friend MJ, but every animal is from somewhere, where do you draw the line. I believe the line was drawn at the park boundary, beyond is fair game. BTW, I would have shot Cecil too. I don't worry about that B&C deer that wondered on my property from the adjacent property or whether those ducks spent last night in the reserve. I know, different deal with the elephant, but only because someone decided it to be so. I have decided differently, park boundary is where sight seeing ends and shooting begins.

I hope this doesn't start a s**t storm, but that is my humble opinion. BTW, I would not break the law to shoot him.

Also, as many of you know, I have hunted Malapati several times and Nixon is a good friend, but that has nothing to do with my decision. Nixon is blessed with a great area. Good for him, he works hard and has earned his spot in the sun.

Cheers,

SHOOT the rifle then SHOOT the pictures!

Nice bull.I was offered a hunt in this area at a much lower cost than my Moz hunt but I declined.What I wanted was a tracking hunt and this was not.I also preferred not to be near a park.

I'm with Butch on this one and give the same exception to different opinion. I would guess this old guy is halfway through his last set of teeth. But still he is one magnificent sight to see.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I'm neither confused or conflicted. As awesome a sight as that elephant is, if I were there hunting elephant I would take him immediately.
I applaud and respect those who see it differently, including my good friend MJ, but every animal is from somewhere, where do you draw the line. I believe the line was drawn at the park boundary, beyond is fair game. BTW, I would have shot Cecil too. I don't worry about that B&C deer that wondered on my property from the adjacent property or whether those ducks spent last night in the reserve. I know, different deal with the elephant, but only because someone decided it to be so. I have decided differently, park boundary is where sight seeing ends and shooting begins.

I hope this doesn't start a s**t storm, but that is my humble opinion. BTW, I would not break the law to shoot him.

Also, as many of you know, I have hunted Malapati several times and Nixon is a good friend, but that has nothing to do with my decision. Nixon is blessed with a great area. Good for him, he works hard and has earned his spot in the sun.

Cheers,

I'm in this camp. The only difference is, I would NEVER EVER post a picture of it.

The Cecil shitstorm was born of a posted picture. Had the good Dr Palmer never posted a picture, NONE of that would have happened.

What a beast!!

I agree Steve. The opposition is out of their minds. Just look at the reaction over the zoo gorilla. Posting a picture of an animal like this is begging for trouble.

Just imagine the emotions that would run through you when you walk up to him after the shot and he was down ??
Its bad enough for me with a forty pounder.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree Steve. The opposition is out of their minds. Just look at the reaction over the zoo gorilla. Posting a picture of an animal like this is begging for trouble.

I just don't get the gut burning desire to post up photographs that help lead to the demise of this sport.

All I can derive from it is, many of us must be hunting to satisfy something in our ego's?

I assume that's the mentality of the people whom go to Africa to kill stuff, take its picture and move on. If your desire is only pictures, I must assume there is also the intent to post them up on hunting forums and FB when returning home.

Killing this magnificent animal isn't a sin or a shame. But handing the photographic evidence of doing so to the opposition is.

Here's the caption they would use;

AMERICAN SPORT HUNTER KILLS PRIZED KRUGER BULL FOR FUN.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree Steve. The opposition is out of their minds. Just look at the reaction over the zoo gorilla. Posting a picture of an animal like this is begging for trouble.

I just don't get the gut burning desire to post up photographs that help lead to the demise of this sport.

All I can derive from it is, many of us must be hunting to satisfy something in our ego's?

I assume that's the mentality of the people whom go to Africa to kill stuff, take its picture and move on. If your desire is only pictures, I must assume there is also the intent to post them up on hunting focus and FB when returning home.

Killing this magnificent animal isn't a sin or a shame. But handing the photographic evidence of doing so to the opposition is.

Here's the caption they would use;

AMERICAN SPORT HUNTER KILLS PRIZED KRUGER BULL FOR FUN.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Would be a treat to see an elephant like that in the wild . . . snap a picture, maybe even make an approach and put the rifle up and dry fire it . . . but to shoot it wandering out of the park . . . not for me.

+1,
I have only hunted elephant once,if this specimen is that uncommon that it brings so much awe out of so many of you gentlemen?,I would not shoot it,let it live & spread its genes,so we may have many more like it.I hunt to hunt,I would spare this one.

If a hunter did shoot it and posted the pic everywhere I would look upon him as a hero. After all it is hunting that is saving these animals.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If a hunter did shoot it and posted the pic everywhere I would look upon him as a hero. After all it is hunting that is saving these animals.

Well George, your mistake here is applying truth, logic, and common sense to hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Would be a treat to see an elephant like that in the wild . . . snap a picture, maybe even make an approach and put the rifle up and dry fire it . . . but to shoot it wandering out of the park . . . not for me.

+1,
I have only hunted elephant once,if this specimen is that uncommon that it brings so much awe out of so many of you gentlemen?,I would not shoot it,let it live & spread its genes,so we may have many more like it.I hunt to hunt,I would spare this one.

It may be beyond its breeding years. But elephants and ivory pretty much blows a hole in the hunting as conservation argument. Elephants and exceptional ivory just don't fit in the hunting as conservation model cause exceptional ivory requires a time horizon far longer than any outfitters business model. Everything else - lions, buffaloes, leopards, plains game fit the hunting as conservation model.

If a hunt concession has a standard to shoot 60 pound elephants it will never have 100 pound elephants. The only places these animals exist is in national parks that are off limit to hunting. The only places they are shot is outside national parks not in any well managed hunting concession or conservancy.

Krueger has these elephants but no South African outfitter hunting around Krueger will ever allow a client to shoot one of Kruegers old Tuskers that wanders off in the boundary areas. Zim is a whole different story and sloppy elephant game management by Zim and TZ is why If you are a US citizen and shoot this animal the ivory won't be coming into the US.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Would be a treat to see an elephant like that in the wild . . . snap a picture, maybe even make an approach and put the rifle up and dry fire it . . . but to shoot it wandering out of the park . . . not for me.

+1,
I have only hunted elephant once,if this specimen is that uncommon that it brings so much awe out of so many of you gentlemen?,I would not shoot it,let it live & spread its genes,so we may have many more like it.I hunt to hunt,I would spare this one.

It may be beyond its breeding years. But elephants and ivory pretty much blows a hole in the hunting as conservation argument. Elephants and exceptional ivory just don't fit in the hunting as conservation model cause exceptional ivory requires a time horizon far longer than any outfitters business model. Everything else - lions, buffaloes, leopards, plains game fit the hunting as conservation model.

If a hunt concession has a standard to shoot 60 pound elephants it will never have 100 pound elephants. The only places these animals exist is in national parks that are off limit to hunting. The only places they are shot is outside national parks not in any well managed hunting concession or conservancy.

Krueger has these elephants but no South African outfitter hunting around Krueger will ever allow a client to shoot one of Kruegers old Tuskers that wanders off in the boundary areas. Zim is a whole different story and sloppy elephant game management by Zim and TZ is why If you are a US citizen and shoot this animal the ivory won't be coming into the US.

Mike

Sorry but I'm sick and tired of you telling us the hunting as conservation model doesn't work. No, sloppy game management isn't the reason we can't import ivory from Zim at present. That has much more to do with Chelsea Clinton's behind the scenes efforts to end hunting / gun rights and the surge in animal rights activists ability to manipulate social media at present.

Although it may be true that quality ivory takes longer to grow than "any outfitter's" timeline, I'd suggest you simply haven't been introduced to the right outfitters. Take CMS for example, when Parks was allowing "ration bulls" they refused to participate, at least during my hunts with them, preferring instead to allow all bulls the opportunity to grow into trophy animals. Think of it in terms of the old man who plants a tree, never to know the joy of sitting in its shade ... but his grandchildren will. That said, a 60 pound bull at the end of its lifespan is simply not going to become a 100 pounder just by letting it die from starvation a couple of years later as his last set of molars wear out.

Mike, you've harped on this anti "hunting as conservation" message for awhile now. A month or so back, we had a great detailed article on how hunters' dollars were funding great conservation efforts in Moz. I attempted to engage you on that thread but I noticed, at least the last time I checked it, you had failed to respond as the thread completely discredited your anti conservation message. BTW, there are many other examples of hunters' dollars funding effective and successful conservation efforts. One need not look further than the DAPU efforts organized and overseen by our friends at CMS.

If you truly believe hunting has no conservation value, I'd suggest you find a different passion to follow. Although hunting is in the end, a selfish activity, it's hard to argue against the fact that where hunters' dollars cease to flow, poaching moves in and destroys the fauna.

I think it is, or should be, beyond question that hunting contributes more to the conservation of wildlife than any other form of wildlife conservation activity today. From my perspective the biggest threat to wildlife all over the world, and particularly in Africa, is the loss of habitat. Since the 1980’s the population in Africa has doubled. It is expected to double again between now and 2050. Without hunting and the dollars provided by hunters, millions of acres of wildlife habitat will continue to be lost to agriculture, ranching, mining, communal development and the like. Photographic safaris are great, but the reality is that the areas suitable to photographic safaris are limited to where game populations are robust and the environment is conducive to wildlife viewing. No, without hunting, animals that are already pressured from a habitat perspective, will simply be pressured to the point that outside of a handful of government and private reserves and game parks (for which there is no funding in the case of most of the government parks and reserves) they will cease to exist in the wild. The new show that Ivan is doing, Carter’s W.A.R., does a great job in my view of making this precise point. His recent episode on lions in Kenya demonstrates that as he says, when people and animals collide, things are never simple. And the simple reality is that the animals are going to lose.

My point on this elephant bull is simply that I have come to a view over time that elephants like this are international treasures. When all the 170 pound elephants were gone, they were gone. Then when all the 150 pound elephants were gone, they were gone too. Now we speak with reverence of 100 pound elephant bulls. One day, they will likely all be gone too. Could this bull die tomorrow of old age, could poachers kill him next week . . . sure, but then again, he may just as likely live for another ten or fifteen years. That said, I can understand and appreciate that others feel differently . . . and I respect their views. In the end, elephant hunting, perhaps more than any other type of hunting, is a very personal decision and well-reasoned views can differ.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In the end, elephant hunting, perhaps more than any other type of hunting, is a very personal decision and well-reasoned views can differ.

Now Mike, that's just crazy talk.

To be clear, my comments were directed at Beretta Mike, not MJ.

If one were ostensibly hunting elephant, and all was well and good with the situation, and he nonetheless chose not to shoot this elephant, then whatever he may have thought he had been doing, he was not hunting elephant.

Mike,

That hit the nail on proverbial head. Perfect!

Mark