In May I was planning a trip to the Matetsi this fall for Bull Ele and Buffalo. Two weeks ago I called it off due to the changes in COVID status. Now I am doubly glad I decided to hold off till at least next year..

I guess I have more time to practice with my new double rifle....

It is interesting to watch mixed neighborhoods of black, brown and white come together and form local militias to protect each other from the dregs of RSA society. Seems the Charou are even heavily involved.

In a perverse sort of way, Mandela's dream of a Rainbow Nation may be forming at the micro level.

To all who have family, friends and property at risk, you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Zuma looted the treasury.

His supporters are looting the grocery!

Zerohedge has a good update with video but Zerohedge does tend to be quite doomy in their outlook. They use phrases like "failed state" quite often.
The President has activated all the Army reserves but if you read through it that is only 12,300 troops in total. The number of those that actually make it to the streets are ?

It looks like our South African friends are on their own.

Logic tells me these riots and looting will die down as soon as all the low hanging fruit has been taken. The real lasting damage comes from the broken supply chains (water, food, electricity, fuel, lost bookings) that will linger afterwards.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...d-widespread-looting

I talked to a friend today who was flying through OR Tambo. He said it was business as usual . No sign of any problem. It was empty though.

I just booked airfare this afternoon, I'm going through JNB on my way to Bulawayo in August.

I figure there's nothing to loot at OR Tambo, so I'm not concerned.

I just hope that Bidvest Lounge is open, so that I can take a shower and relax with a cold beer on my layover.

You should be safe in the airport.

I wouldn’t be outside though.

Just another reason I have no interest in hunting in South Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You should be safe in the airport.

I wouldn’t be outside though.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/

Cool, but food sucks and drinks are overpriced.

quote:

I figure there's nothing to loot at OR Tambo, so I'm not concerned.

Don't be so sure. Plenty of upscale shops and eateries there in the airport. I know 'cause I've spent plenty of money in them.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Just another reason I have no interest in hunting in South Africa.

I have the same feeling.

Very sad indeed, as the people involved in hunting are suffering.

And the number of times I went there we all had fantastic time.

But, the bloody stupid government with their never ending rule changes make me not to go there again.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Just another reason I have no interest in hunting in South Africa.

I have the same feeling.

Very sad indeed, as the people involved in hunting are suffering.

And the number of times I went there we all had fantastic time.

But, the bloody stupid government with their never ending rule changes make me not to go there again.

I have an opinion, even after seeing so many videos.

It sucks for outfitters that were just getting back to business.

Oh, let’s still check that gun control in RSA. Hmm…

Many of those businesses look shut down, at least when I passed through a few weeks ago!

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:

quote:

I figure there's nothing to loot at OR Tambo, so I'm not concerned.

Don't be so sure. Plenty of upscale shops and eateries there in the airport. I know 'cause I've spent plenty of money in them.

quote:

Many of those businesses look shut down, at least when I passed through a few weeks ago!

True... only about a third of the shops were open and many of the lounges were closed including Bidvest. Jay, Tim and I were there a couple of weeks ago.

Had clients leave SA today and said everything was fine nothing out of the usual except airport was dead. They came from the eastern cape.
We leave the 28th with more clients and as of right now everything is going as planned. We will be heading NW out of Joberg and have 3 of the big 5 on the menu fingers crossed it all stays well. Our PH says everything is fine media making it out a lot worst than it is.

My wife and I are sitting at JNB between flights right now.

Just had a hot shower at the Shongololo Lounge - very nice.

Seems to be business as usual except for so many shops closed because of COVID.

The headlines today:

"South Africa hikes troop deployment against looters as death toll rises to 117"

Its clearly not a bed of roses as some would like to make it appear.

If the death toll is 117 I wonder how many are injured.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
My wife and I are sitting at JNB between flights right now.

Just had a hot shower at the Shongololo Lounge - very nice.

Seems to be business as usual except for so many shops closed because of COVID.

Good luck my friend.

I hope things work out and you all have a great time.

quote:

Originally posted by NTO:
Had clients leave SA today and said everything was fine nothing out of the usual except airport was dead. They came from the eastern cape.
We leave the 28th with more clients and as of right now everything is going as planned. We will be heading NW out of Joberg and have 3 of the big 5 on the menu fingers crossed it all stays well. Our PH says everything is fine media making it out a lot worst than it is.

To infer "all is well", is disingenuous at the very best, flat out dishonest at worst.

I get that the hunting industry in RSA is in dire straits , but going on a hunting vacation when things are as they are is very risky. For booking agents to encourage sporting travel to countries with civil uprisings is beyond my ability to understand.

I waited for 5-6 years for a window of "relative peace" in CAR before I went. I trusted my agents best judgement. When a booking agent tells you "I just wouldn't risk it yet" tells me I have the right guy looking out for me.

All of this with the Covid factor not even in the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by NTO:
Had clients leave SA today and said everything was fine nothing out of the usual except airport was dead. They came from the eastern cape.
We leave the 28th with more clients and as of right now everything is going as planned. We will be heading NW out of Joberg and have 3 of the big 5 on the menu fingers crossed it all stays well. Our PH says everything is fine media making it out a lot worst than it is.

To infer "all is well", is disingenuous at the very best, flat out dishonest at worst.

I get that the hunting industry in RSA is in dire straits , but going on a hunting vacation when things are as they are is very risky. For booking agents to encourage sporting travel to countries with civil uprisings is beyond my ability to understand.

I waited for 5-6 years for a window of "relative peace" in CAR before I went. I trusted my agents best judgement. When a booking agent tells you "I just wouldn't risk it yet" tells me I have the right guy looking out for me.

All of this with the Covid factor not even in the equation.

Clients have a choice.

Passing through South Africa seems no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by NTO:
Had clients leave SA today and said everything was fine nothing out of the usual except airport was dead. They came from the eastern cape.
We leave the 28th with more clients and as of right now everything is going as planned. We will be heading NW out of Joberg and have 3 of the big 5 on the menu fingers crossed it all stays well. Our PH says everything is fine media making it out a lot worst than it is.

To infer "all is well", is disingenuous at the very best, flat out dishonest at worst.

I get that the hunting industry in RSA is in dire straits , but going on a hunting vacation when things are as they are is very risky. For booking agents to encourage sporting travel to countries with civil uprisings is beyond my ability to understand.

I waited for 5-6 years for a window of "relative peace" in CAR before I went. I trusted my agents best judgement. When a booking agent tells you "I just wouldn't risk it yet" tells me I have the right guy looking out for me.

All of this with the Covid factor not even in the equation.

Clients have a choice.

Passing through South Africa seems no problem.

Agree, we do have a choice. But for booking agents to "insinuate" there won't be any issues, could very easily put somebody in peril pretty darn quick.

One random riot while driving, one roadblock, one whatever....

No way out of a situation in a third world country on the verge of a civil war. Go ahead.

Personally, I will avoid South Africa at any cost today.

Certainly not worth the hassle.

I remember an English friend who went to live there.

Bought a house in Cape Town.

Kept telling me how safe it was.

Ne t I hear he was mugged.

On his house.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
Last summer, who was doing the majority of the looting throughout the cites in America?

pasty white entitled Marxist children

All was well today regarding getting clients to Port Elizabeth Airport, onto JoBurg and Doha - USA. No protest action in East Cape but police presence nonetheless. Most of the rioting in KZN and parts of Gauteng are under control albeit with a long road to recovery and rebuilding ahead

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
Last summer, who was doing the majority of the looting throughout the cites in America?

pasty white entitled Marxist children

Definitely not what I remember seeing. Certainly plenty of them "protesting" and causing trouble but the majority of the looting seen by my eyes was from another demographic.

So as a booking agent I would lie to my clients to make a few bucks haha I don’t think so. If you read I am going over with them so I guess I am putting myself in the line of fire also. I trust my PH who I have worked with for 20yrs. Several yrs ago when Mozambique wasn’t safe we pulled out for the whole season so I have clients that trust me plenty and we lookout for everyone’s best interest. I love how everyone just jumps to conclusions. That’s all I have to say about that. I think this deal will be squashed very soon and pray for everyone that is caught in the crossfire.

I have been in contact with eight gents in SA. One is worried, severn are not; with the 7 agreeing it will blow over and the government will have it all in control.

quote:

Originally posted by NTO:
So as a booking agent I would lie to my clients to make a few bucks haha I don’t think so. If you read I am going over with them so I guess I am putting myself in the line of fire also. I trust my PH who I have worked with for 20yrs. Several yrs ago when Mozambique wasn’t safe we pulled out for the whole season so I have clients that trust me plenty and we lookout for everyone’s best interest. I love how everyone just jumps to conclusions. That’s all I have to say about that. I think this deal will be squashed very soon and pray for everyone that is caught in the crossfire.

Now there’s crossfire?

Most probably this will blow away very soon.

South Africa has been simmering for many years, and life has been going on.

This is one of those sparks that can mean the difference between nothing happens to a visiting hunter, or his last hunt.

He is the only one who can make an educated decision, and bear the consequences.

I was actually in transit to Chile years ago, when I saw in the news of riots against the government!

I cancelled my flight.

And I was very happy I did.

Saeed and Cal, That is about how I am looking at the RSA situation with regards to my plans to hunt in Limpopo 2022.

I will pay attention, talk to my contacts there and not over react. It may well blow over. Brian

I have clients flying out on the 28th. We will make the call this week. They also booked with some sort of travel company to travel around Cape Town up the coast to Durban and then Kruger. I told them they they needed to cancel that part of their trip. They booked that on their own. Hunting and staying on the farms is one thing but not the time to go sight seeing around Durban.

Guys, there are ELECTIONS next year in South Africa. If anything, it's going to get worse.

Already they are blaming the whites for owning most of the land.

"Zungula said he believed that civil unrest of this nature and magnitude will continue over the next few years, unless meaningful economic reforms are introduced to benefit those who have long been marginalised.

In 2017, the Department of Agriculture Rural Development and Land Reform released the Land Audit Report, a 36-page document highlighting the racialised economic disparity and land ownership in South Africa. According to the report, Black people, who make up the majority of the population, own only 4 percent of land, and white people, who make up just 12 percent of the population, own 72 percent of land."

I very much doubt these statistics. The former homelands, created when the Afrikaner Nationalist Government took a huge number of farms and handed them out to the various tribes, comprised way more than 4% of the land. And it's also true that in the majority of cases of successful land claims under the ANC, the plaintiffs chose to TAKE THE MONEY instead of the land. And finally those that were resettled on the land do not have TITLE to the land, the state kept the title. So these numbers are all bull. And even if the numbers were accurate, I think you will find that in every country with a large agricultural sector, a very small % of the people own the vast majority of the agricultural land. That's just the reality of modern farming and you wouldn't want it otherwise. So the idea that if everyone could get a postage stamp that would somehow be good is hooey. That just perpetuates poverty. Ask the Zimbos how that went. The solution is investment, industrialization, education .. something that no African country seems to be able to figure out. On the contrary, they seem to do their best to DISCOURAGE these things, and certainly in South Africa, investors are going to be even more cautious now.

My friends in Durban are claiming that the ordinary people have taken over and the looters running for cover. Communities of all color have united in law enforcement and have had enough of these thugs.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
The headlines today:

"South Africa hikes troop deployment against looters as death toll rises to 117"

Its clearly not a bed of roses as some would like to make it appear.

If the death toll is 117 I wonder how many are injured.

"More than 2,200 people have been arrested for theft and vandalism and 117 people have died, Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, acting minister in the presidency said Thursday. Many were trampled to death in chaotic stampedes when shops were being looted, according to police."

“This is going to be very important," the analyst said. “First to restore the rule of law in South Africa and to prevent impunity, because if people can get away with looting without being prosecuted, they will do it again. ... So it’s going to be very important. I think we may have to set up special courts.”

While that is not good, the reports were sounding a lot worse. Death toll of 117 sounds about like the monthly toll in Chicago. Last summer we had a bit of looting and rioting going on in the US as well. The difference is it sounds like they may prosecute.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Guys, there are ELECTIONS next year in South Africa. If anything, it's going to get worse.

Already they are blaming the whites for owning most of the land.

"Zungula said he believed that civil unrest of this nature and magnitude will continue over the next few years, unless meaningful economic reforms are introduced to benefit those who have long been marginalised.

"Meaningful economic reforms are introduced to benefit those who have long been marginalised"?

Well f.... my giddy Aunt.

What ignites it in the first place? Education, and by that I mean at the basic level. However, these are the very demographic that burns schools down, loots and trashes and thus furthering economic hardships.

No Government in the world can magically create economic prosperity if those needing it are the ones trashing everything around them that would assist in upliftment.

Poverty is not a uniquely South African problem, just look around us. The millions of people in poverty can never be uplifted unless they take the choice to do so themselves.

Coming soon to an American city near you.

Oh wait.

I forgot.

Looting is how we “protest” something g in America now.

This will eventually become Mau Mau II on steroids. Now Chinese inspired instead of Soviet inspired as in Kenya in the 50's. You won't hear much about it in the U.S. MSM as China owns them also. Saeed, don't blame the American People. Blame the our corrupt, now Socialist government.

Reviewing the last 30 years of ANC rule:

1. ANC fired every white they could fire in government and parastatals, and hired blacks in their place
2. ANC instituted "Black Economic Empowerment" which forces employers to hire blacks and forces companies to have a significant percentage of black ownership.
3. ANC adopted a policy of giving preference to black owned companies in all government contracts, mineral exploration licenses etc.
4. ANC adopted new labor laws that protect employees, enforce a minimum wage, and encourage unionization
5. ANC took back land that was historically black-occupied and gave it to the descendants of said occupiers (but kept title in the name of the state); or, if they so elected, gave them cash, which is what happened in the majority of cases, and leased the land back to the current owner(s).
6. ANC dismantled every law they thought was discriminatory eg the Group Areas Act, Influx Control, job reservation etc.
7. ANC redirected money from defense and infrastructure to social programs aka "human infrastructure"
and more that I have probably missed


Why, one must ask, after all of this, must "meaningful economic reforms" be adopted "to benefit those who have long been marginalised"? Are these policies not meaningful then? Why, after all of this, is the unemployment rate still close to 40%? Why, after all of this, is poverty and inequality worse than ever? Why is the crime rate off the charts? Why has Botswana enjoyed steady growth in GDP per capita, now surpassing South Africa which has been stagnant in this regard.

Perhaps what is needed is LESS social engineering, less identity politics, and more old-fashioned self help and hard work?

Bentaframe, I couldn't agree with you more. In my very UN-PC opinion that it all went to shit with the demise of colonialism.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Reviewing the last 30 years of ANC rule:

1. ANC fired every white they could fire in government and parastatals, and hired blacks in their place
2. ANC instituted "Black Economic Empowerment" which forces employers to hire blacks and forces companies to have a significant percentage of black ownership.
3. ANC adopted a policy of giving preference to black owned companies in all government contracts, mineral exploration licenses etc.
4. ANC adopted new labor laws that protect employees, enforce a minimum wage, and encourage unionization
5. ANC took back land that was historically black-occupied and gave it to the descendants of said occupiers (but kept title in the name of the state); or, if they so elected, gave them cash, which is what happened in the majority of cases, and leased the land back to the current owner(s).
6. ANC dismantled every law they thought was discriminatory eg the Group Areas Act, Influx Control, job reservation etc.
7. ANC redirected money from defense and infrastructure to social programs aka "human infrastructure"
and more that I have probably missed


Why, one must ask, after all of this, must "meaningful economic reforms" be adopted "to benefit those who have long been marginalised"? Are these policies not meaningful then? Why, after all of this, is the unemployment rate still close to 40%? Why, after all of this, is poverty and inequality worse than ever? Why is the crime rate off the charts? Why has Botswana enjoyed steady growth in GDP per capita, now surpassing South Africa which has been stagnant in this regard.

Perhaps what is needed is LESS social engineering, less identity politics, and more old-fashioned self help and hard work?

For a minute I thought you are talking about Chicago!