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I have been taught that if you cannot be sure of a shot, you must rather not shoot at all. I believe that high magnification scopes delude infrequent hunters into taking risky shots they should not take. In the hunting field an x12, or x24 or even a scope that magnify by x30 can create an unrealistic confidence about one’s own shooting ability. Why hunt game on 400 or even 600 meters; and I not even talking about the ‘machos’ that only take head shots at a certain impractical distance. Silhouette shooters and snipers might and probably can reach those distances and even can go beyond, but I am a hunter and I still cannot see what the skill in that is… I believe that a hunter must have skills such as the ability to approach game silently and close enough to shoot from a reasonable distance. Dream it...Discover it...Experience it... Patrick Reynecke Outfitter and Professional Hunter Bushwack Safaris Box 1736 Rustenburg 0300 North West Province South Africa www.bushwacksafaris.co.za Cell: +27 82 773 4099 Email: bushwacksafaris@vodamail.co.za | ||
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When your rifle scope doubles as a spotting scope you may be over gunned!!!  Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Bushwack, I do agree with you - But will offer some of my experience on scope power: My deer and big game rifles are: 2 with iron peep sights and 3 with low powered fixed scopes - either 2.5 or 4X. All these have worked just fine in the field for 0 to 200 yards! I have nothing in the 3x9 or 4x12 powers - Just don't need'em. I do have a 6x24 on my 22LR squirrel rifle and an 8x32 on my 270 bean field rifle, but they both do double-duty as target rifles. When hunting the 6x24 stays on 6 and the 8x32 stays on 8. I've never needed to increase the power of either when hunting. I've also never had any problem with the 22 on 6 power. I've only passed on one shot that was too close for the 270 on 8 power - It was my fault. I shouldn't have taken that beanfield rifle to a stand where the longest shot was 60 yards (another rifle would have been OK). ________ Ray | |||
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I scope all my hunting rifles with Swarovski 3 x 12 x 50's except for my double rrifles and they are unscoped.In hunting situations it has rarely been moved off 3x but the magnification is there if I need it. The longest shot I have taken hunting was a 314 yd. shot in Alaska and it was sucessful.There have been times when I increased the magnification to glass animals at long distances when my bino's were not handy.One should know the distances you are comfortable with prior to going on the hunt and respect these distances even if it means going home empty handed,a hard decision sometimes but better to not shoot than to wound and possibly lose the animal.Just my thoughts. Thanks Wesley | |||
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I find 2 or 2.5 x 7 or 8 perfect. Under field conditions anything at 9 power or above I see every little movement in the rifle and lose confidence. I also find it invaluable to be able to turn my scope down to 2 or 2.5 when taking an off hand shot as the target appears steadier. I constantly think about adjusting the power setting while on the stalk...7 or 8 for prone, 5-6 for sitting, standing or kneeling with sticks, 3-5 sitting or kneeling with out sticks, and 2 or 2.5 for offhand. It is second nature for me and part of my pre-shot routine. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Perfect Mike!  Happy Thanksgiving, Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Mike and Chuck agreed. I have never muffed a shot because I did not have enough magnification, but I have blown shots because I had too much magnification. I have low power variables on everything but my varmint rifle. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I have a big problem with people who use their rifle scope for a spotting scope. On numerous occasions while elk and deer hunting I have spotted people looking at me through their rifle scope, that means a loaded rifle was pointed at me also. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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swampshooter: Readng your post and, particularly after reading where you are from (wide open spaces - As an Easterner who often visited the West I was always dumbfounded by the sheer size of your country) I was reminded by your story about an incidwent that happened when I was a teenager- I was setting out about an hour before legal shooting time to take up a position for a shot at a white tail deer. This was in southern NY many years ago. I was working my way up a slope (intending to take a stand for white tails working their way up the slope after dawn) and suddenly spotted a dark spot at the base of a tree. My scope was a 2.5 Lyman Alaskan. Texas, I swear to you that I grew up with the same idea that you never aim a rifle at what you don't intend to shoot. I put the scope on the "dark apot". (This was before "orange" wear) I saw immediately that it was a hunter with arifle3 across his knees. Unfortunately I held the scope a second or two too long. He looked and saw me -and jumped up waving his arms . I apologized -but I noticed that he eyed me warily -and I never forgot the incident. I just don't know if rifle scopes should be used as spotting scopes -because I nevr had to deal with the enoemous distances of the West - - but, to end a longwinded post - I would forgive a good hunter who uses his rifle scopw to make very sure of his target. | |||
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swampshooter: I should have mentioned in my last post that the "dark spot" I referred to was a possible black bear -and legal at the time. | |||
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Do you you charge for this lecture, or is it free? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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   Bill, You're too funny! Happy Thanksgiving! Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Bill, need some pointers? Dream it...Discover it...Experience it... Patrick Reynecke Outfitter and Professional Hunter Bushwack Safaris Box 1736 Rustenburg 0300 North West Province South Africa www.bushwacksafaris.co.za Cell: +27 82 773 4099 Email: bushwacksafaris@vodamail.co.za | |||
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Good post Gerry, what part of Texas did you visit? The area where Swampshooter lives is anything but WIDE OPEN Country! Brownsville, Texas is about as far south as one can get and still be in the USA, and neer the Gulf coast. Of course that is no guarintee he does all his hunting there. I have some higher powered veribles on a couple of rifles, but most are Varment rifles used for P-dog shooting, or coyotes. Even the scopes I have on big game hunting rifles are carried on the lowest power when hunting. The biggest reason for the scopes in the 3-9x 40 is, they gather a lot of light when the light is failing, but they have another use as well. When I get an animal that is something I want to shoot, and the ranges is long, if there is any brush at all I will run the power up to see if there are any bullet deflecting sticks in the line of sight that I can't see with the low power. The power showing movement of the cross hair on the target, is not caused by the scope, but by the shooter, and even if he doesn't see that movement at low power, it is still there. However, if you can hit the target with a 9 power scope, you can hit that same target, at that same distance with a 2 power scope. I have one heavy mediun chambered rifle with a 3-9X40mm scope on it, and it is a Whitworth African Express rifle, chambered for 375 H&H. This rifle is set up with goos express irons, the scope is in Warne QD rings & bases, and is in a synthetic stock. I use this rifle for hunting everything in Alaska, from artic fox, to Brown bear. It is carried on 3 power all the time, but as someone above said, the power is there if needed. Anyone who thinks a 300 gr .375 bullet can't be deflected by an unseen twigg the size of a cigarette is fooling himself. A deflected bullet going into the guts of a brown bear in the alders, is not a thing I have a great desire to deal with! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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fo hunting big game open country 4 or 6 x fix power. for short range moving target 2,½ with german reticle. for close range rapid shoting express or peep sight. for varmint at long range 10 or 12 x. i love it fix power  Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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There is no point in anything more than x4 for big game except maybe x6 for pronghorns or something in really open country. x1.5 for dangerous game. Higher magnification does not make your shots more accurate, provided you can see the game at all. The single sight plane of a scope does that. It's bad to use a rifle scope for glassing for the reasons mentioned by other posters. Further, if you glass a lot, and you should, you'll get very tired holding up the rifle. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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With the quality of today's adjustable power scopes, I can't understand why anyone would handicap themselves with a low-magnification fixed-power scope. All the arguments in favor of low, fixed-powered scopes (lighters, stronger, "all a real hunter needs", blah, blah) have been well stated in the previous posts. My favorite is that on high magnification, it's hard to hold the rifle still because the crosshairs bounce all over the target. The crosshairs bouncing all over the target has nothing to do with the magnification of the scope, it's because the rifle isn't steady! The crosshairs are moving just as much at lower magnification, you just can't see it! Yes, in most hunting situations anything from 1.75X to 4X is more than sufficient. I get that. But why not have the option of having more magnification when you need it? As hunters, it's our responsibility to do everything possible to ensure clean kills. The better you can see your target, the more precisely you can place your shot. Pete | |||
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Pete, The point is on high power magnification you see the wobble and see that you are slightly off your hold...so you attempt to correct it...oh oops more wobble...oh better correct again...oh ooops more wobble. we all know the wobble is there...but when you don't see it...your sight picture feels more stable so you shoot and your hold was always good enough for MO of Dead Animal Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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i dunno but when shooting smallbore i use a 15x at 50'. guess its all in what you're used to. i took the 1-4's off even my heavy stuff and put on either 2-7 or 3-9's cause i can see through them better. old eyes you know , i have to agree if you aren't well used to high power scopes they can be a detriment, but if you're used to shooting at running jackrabbits with a 10x, why not | |||
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Mike, I guess I'd rather see how bad the wobble is and be able to decide if it's too much to pass on the shot or make me look for a more solid rest. Pete | |||
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I like to use about 6-8x for shooting game at 150-250 yards. I have some vision issues, and the extra magnification helps me a great deal. That said, more than 8x in the field isn't very practical; when I'm moving, I keep the magnification down to 2-3x and bump it up as needed. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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I guess I have as many shot opportunities in "wide open" country as most folks, and I don't have anything bigger then 3x9 on anything of mine (ruger #1 in 22-250 excluded). Frankly, 80% of my shots at coyotes and such is with a Ruger mini 14 with a beater 4x on it(gun I leave in my truck), not much of a "sniper" setup there. I completely agree with analog, that I prefer to use a lower power and bump up as needed. So far this year I have shot 1 deer, 1 bear and 3 hogs and 2 coyotes with my 300 Roy and haven't shifted off 3x yet. Longest shot 322 yards (seemed far away so I walked it off to the coyote). I just feel a little less steady on the big powers, so I always just shot how I felt comfortable. | |||
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Funny, just had this discussion the other day..... I have found that having too much magnification on your scope can be a detriment to accuracy. I have seen many people shooting at 100 yards shrink their groups by 50% by reducing the power on their scope to the minimum. Not once have I ever seen the accuracy decrease. On the flip side, having the scope at higher powers will also slow you down before taking the shot. You will spend too much time waiting for the crosshairs to settle, and they seldom will. My favorite scope for hunting rifles is the 1.75-6x. I do have 3-10 power scopes though. The only time I feel I need more than the minimum power is to isolate an animal in a pack to make sure there isn't another set behind the animal. John | |||
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I'm not handicaped with 2.5 and 4X fixed power scopes and you ain't listening. ________ Ray | |||
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I like the higher power variables. I have taken long shots with the power cranked up and it works for me. Each to his own. | |||
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most of my scopes are S&B 1.5-6x42. I usually set them on 4 and forget them. On DG rifles I use S&B 1.25-4x20 which I set on 2. I can only think of one time when I dialed up to 6 on my non DG rifle and I don't believe I have ever gone above 2 on the DG rifle. On the other hand most of my shots have been 100 yds or less. I can only think of three long shots: 2 at 200 on whitetails and one at a PH estimated 300, but I believe was more like 250 at a Lechewe. For the type on hunting I do I don't need high magnification, I just don't feel that I'm a good enough shot to take one that would require high magnification. | |||
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I'm glad all you have perfect eyes, I cant see if a deer has a spike or a branched antler at 100 yards with out a large magnification. You pull off shooting a deer in texas (in most counties) without an inside spread of 13+ inches that has 2 points on each antler and you will toss your old scopes in the junk pile. At least you will the ones that didn't get confiscated. 6.5-20 simmons on the 223 and 8-32 burris on the 300 RUM. Neither have come off max power for the past several years with 4-5 deer each year taken from 27-418 yards. | |||
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I've noticed that as I've gotten older and have been able to afford better equipment, I am using lower power scopes. You can see a lot more with a high end 4X than you ever could with a lower line 3-9X. I am using mostly IOR and Kahles now, and somehow all the variables stay at or near their lowest setting. I'll crank them up for a long shot. | |||
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Ditto Marty If you need to economize do it on the rifle not the scope. The difference, in hunting effectivness, between a top end rifle and a low end rifle is actually pretty small. A trigger job and perhaps glass bedding will get just about any rifle into hunting shape. The difference between a high end and low end scope is night and day. You can't hit what you can't see, spend your money on the scope. My 2 cents, worth what you paid for them. TerryR | |||
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Then they may just need a better rest to set up on, that makes no sense at all to me..... Or any benchrest / varmint type shooter.... You did say groups. | |||
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MacD37: I really almost laughed out loud when you asked "What part of Texas did I visit?" (wide open country remark in my post) Despite having a mother with Texas relations (Mundy, Texas) I have never seen central or southern Texas country. (I was in Dallas, once, but I know that doean't count) and only saw the Panhandle - so that's my defense about open country. | |||
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