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I am looking for a tough solid for my 458 caliber rifles. | ||
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North Fork then GS Custom. The Barnes monometal is bronze and surely is tough as nails. But is it too hard on your barrel too? The NF & GS are copper, likely even OK for double rifles, certainly for bolt guns. Some have reported as much as a 40% increase in penetration on elephant with the 450gr NF over a 500gr conventional solid. This said both the Woodleigh and the Sledgehammer are very highly regarded. I've been going down this same path and have relied on the experience of others, from those who make 'em to those who break 'em. You're comparing apples and oranges, monolithic metal vs conventional lead core. The mm bullets are awesome but they should be considered carefully especially in doubles but in fine bolt guns too. The Woodleighs have rarely, if ever failed, and the Sledgehammer meplat correctly contructed solid is an outstanding bullet. In fact the TBSS may be in a sub-class of it's own. | |||
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why? | |||
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Why what? | |||
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WHY do YOU think they are better? Have you performed an HONEST,SIMPLE,andSTRAIGHTFORWARD TEST? | |||
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I was adding "why" when you asked. I've been asking essentially the same thing for my future use in doubles and bolts. This is what I've found out from bullet makers to hunters. Much of it is here on AR. | |||
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Speer AGS tungsten cored solids are by far the best .458" cal bullets I have seen in action. Least distortion. The woodleighs are great- at lower velocities. Barnes Banded flat nosed solids work well out of a Lott | |||
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I put 4 NF Cup into a Zim buff in '06....1 is still in Zim after passing thru from the left rear ribs and out the chest and 3 which were recovered after passing thru about 3.5-4' of buff.....and remember, I said CUP POINTS. These monometal bullets upset slightly and still penetrated that much. The FP solids would have penetrated more. The PH hit him in the chest also with a 416 Rem loaded with TB Sledgehammers. All 4 bullets were within a few iches of each other...all shot from the front as he came toward us. The PH's TB Sledge rivited a bit. I like the NF's. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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And a sad day it was when they stopped making them bigger than 375. They were perfect for the 458WM because they were a good bit shorter than monometal solids, yet they set the standard for this type of performance. Yes? | |||
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And a lot of folks have shot alot of the Barnes, no question, they work. But they are rather hard on the bore. The copper in the NF & GS is softer yet plenty hard enough and they perform as designed and expected. JPK here knocked the shit out of some eles with the NF .458 450gr FP out of his 458WM double. He recounts here a couple few times how pleased he was and in direct comparison to conventional 500gr solids. Buy the NFs in your size, I have to wait a while for 474s. | |||
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I have had excellent perormance in my 450 No2 on elephants with 480 Woodleigh Solids, however the 450 North Fork Flat Point Solids have given me quite a bit more penetration, from the same 450 No2 double with one grain more RL 15 they regulate the same as the 480 Woodleigh's. If they will feed in your 458, it would be your best choice. I would try to get the 450 NF Soft to hit the same place. Drive them around 2200fps, JPK can suggest the proper load. OOPs TYPO I used Woodleigh Solids on them elephants. Thanks 465 H&H DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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450 No 2, Did you really mean you used softs on elephants? If so I'd like to hear more about that. 465H&H | |||
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465 the NF flat nosed solids are not a softpoint but a copper solid.. I have shot them into my big Tanzania elephant and thru a buf.. I also shot a Bridger solid into my first bull ele in Zim, in fact, I was the first to kill an elephant with a Bridger solid.. As for penetration, in my opinion the flat point are pushing away what is in front as the bullet makes contact and the round nosed solids cut there way in... Mike | |||
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How about the speer African grand slam? Here is an article with some .458 win mag solid infoirmation: http://www.african-hunter.com/solids_vs__mono.htm Cheers, André Always always use enough... GUN & KNIFE | |||
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Andre ,the best solids i saw were made with tungsten -i believe- by you for your 500 jeffery magnum ,please post some of your bullets .Juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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Juan old friend The Sper African Grand Slam is with a tungsten core. My homemade bullets where made of pure copper. I did play around with a core of Wolfram steel but never followed up on that. Maybe one day  Cheers, André Always always use enough... GUN & KNIFE | |||
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Thanks for the link Andre! There don't seem to be any 500gr grand slams on the speer web site.I checked the Barnes site and their Banded solids are made from copper and zinc and are very similar to the TSX in weight and point of impact.I managed to order some Barnes solids and Woodleighs but was told I would have to wait at least a month.Andre,are the Barnes solids in the article made of bronze or are they like the ones that Barnes sells today? | |||
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The Speer big bore tungsten core African Grand slam solids are no longer made, sadly, the biggest being .375 I think. | |||
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I have had good luck with the Barnes banded solids in my 458 and my 375 H&H. I agree that they look like they will be hard on a barrell but I found that they shoot to the same point of aim as the X bullet of the same weight. So you only have to shoot a few to make sure and you are good. BTW Not only do they shoot well for me but I have actually used them hunting on buff and hippo to great effect. | |||
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Uglystick,can you describe where you hit the buff with the solid and how he reacted? Was it the only shot? Did he go down with the CRACK of the shot? | |||
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The first buff was shot twice at about 40 yards. The first shot went through the shoulder broadside and was found under the skin on the other side. This was actually an x bullet and I recovered it and it was 498 grains and mushroomed out perfectly. The buff turned to run and I shot him up the ass with the solid. This bullet broke the buffs pelvis and ended up under the skin in his neck. The bullet had no marks on it except rifling and weighed a perfect 500 grains. The buff staggered and piled up in about 30 feet. The other buff I shot was a chest on shot with a solid at 30 yards, he spun around and piled up when I shot him again in the back, taking out the spine. Neither of these solids were recovered!! Just for info, based on my limited experience having killed 2 and seen another 3 killed. BUFFALO NEVER "DROP AT THE CRACK OF THE SHOT" unless you hit them in the brain or spine. | |||
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I do not know what mix Barnes uses. Sorry to learn that Speer no longer are making the African Grand Slam in .458 You might also want to check out Rhino Bullets from RSA. They also make a mono metal solid with a flat front. Here is an article: http://images.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.africa...1%26hl%3Dda%26sa%3DG And a link to Rhinos page: http://www.rhinobullets.co.za/specifications.htm Cheers, André Always always use enough... GUN & KNIFE | |||
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or shoot from a well maintained rifle and hit them HIGH on the shoulder | |||
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Yeah just like I said, HIGH on the shoulder usually equals spine dammage. You still wont see many bangflops with buff no matter what you shoot them with or where you shoot them. | |||
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I just found out that Nosler makes a 500gr 458 solid.It is also offered in Winchesters Supreme Safari ammuntion with a muzzle velocity of 2240 fps!!! Is that something or what! | |||
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"Or What" is thatI think is that you should lay off the lead paint. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Speer stoped making the Tungston G.S about 2+yrs ago.. When I heard they were stopping production I ordered and got the last of them from Speer. I have a lifetime supply for my Lott.. I think this is the best bullet ever marketed in a solid, specialy for the limited case capacity for the Win Mag or Lott.. Unfortunatley I had to pay a Kings ransom for them.. MopaneMike | |||
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Is this a question about the proper helmet construction for a big bore? SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Barnes banded solid -- because it takes WAY longer to boil than the other tough ones. _______________________ | |||
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No longer made, but still available here: http://www.gunaccessories.com/speer/African%20GrandSlamRifleBullets.asp Got a lifetime supply for my .375, but they have .416 and .458 as well. You won't like the price. I put an insurance shot into a buffalo from side to side and the bullet didn't even slow down. | |||
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tyhe barnes fp banded solids hit within an inch of the tsx in my lott straight down from tsx about 3/4 inch I have recovered very few from any test media but the ones recovered looked like they could be used again and did seem to pen in a straight line. VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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I don't know what constitutes a "lifetime supply," but I bought 125 AGS .458 solids for use in my Lott when Midway put them on sale during their closeout. At 57-years-old, I seriously doubt that I will shoot more than 80 or 90 elephants in the time I have remaining on this earth. That leaves at least 35 to "play" with on the range.  | |||
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Well, that's a lotta elephants, or a lotta bull(s), but at age 65, 75 will certainly hold me. That's my lifetime supply, minus about ten I used at the range and in TZ.  | |||
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