I have read several websites and they frequently say that all fees must be paid in cash before departing camp for home. How do you accomplish this, bank checks, actual cash money or do you prepay before you even get there. The thought of carrying thousands in cash makes no sense to me. How does it really work?

It depends a lot on the company and country involved.

Some can/will take T/Cs, some need cash and some can can take payment with credit card or electronic bank transfer in camp.

This might help:

http://www.shakariconnection.com/hunt-pricing.html

http://www.shakariconnection.com/hunt-budgeting.html

It depends on the outfitter, where they are located, and the level of trust you have with them.

I have settled up with traveler's checks and by personal check before leaving, and by wire transfer after returning home. Nowadays, with a computer and internet access, it's possible to send a wire transfer before leaving.

You should check with the outfitter, but . . . caveat emptor.

I would not hunt with anyone who insisted that I bring a large amount of cash to pay with before leaving. Way too risky.

Another thing to remember is that some countries & game depts not only require payment in cash only but also cash no older than a certain print date..... technically, sometimes before the client leaves the country. It's a pain in the arse for everyone but it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

Recent events discussed here also show why T/Cs and personal cheques etc should also be treated with a certain element of doubt in many cases.

some banks here in the usa don't do travelers checks any more I was shocked when I found out from my bank that they did not have them anymore.

I took cash to Zimbabwe in December of 2008, and again last month (April of 2010) to South Africa. No problems in either case.
A country/Game Dept asking for the $$$ would run a really big red flag up for me. If you pay up front and something goes wrong, YOU are screwed. If you pay a small deposit up front and something goes wrong, the PH will be very highly motivated to fix things right then and there. Not to say that he/they would not anyway, but money always makes things work better/faster unless you pay up front.

JMHO

Rich
DRSS

Like ddrhook, I had to go to two banks to get T/C's.
I took enough along to pay for my expected expenses at the outfitter before leaving and also took enough cash (converted at ATL before I left to Rand) to cover tips, etc. Hotel bill and some souvineers we picked up were paid for with credit card. When your caard is run, the conversion is automatic.

JSC271,

If you go through an agent you should be able to leave enough money with them to cover all but the most minor expenses. That relieves all stress in connection with carrying money to Africa. Withour company if you under shoot and have a balance left at the end of the safari we will reimburse you and if you over shoot we will bill you. Couldn't be more simple.

Personally I've only run into one situation where cash was absolutely required at safari's end. A Cameroon operator required all trophy fees be paid in Euros before we left the country so we carried the Euros. I was a little uncomfortable but all went well.

Mark

I took $15,000 in cash to Tanz in bills of 2003 vintage and newer as Shakari correctly states. Kept in tatical shirt pocket hidden. I declared it on a customs form and no problems. Not the wisest thing to do but was requested by the operator due to shortages because of 1000 gallons of hijacked fuel.


Dutch

There is ZERO stress in carrying cash to Africa. The stress begins when you get there, or when you have shelled out several thousands of US dollars to someone you likely have never met face to face.

Your car dealership is usually in your hometown. Would you pay them upfront for a new car/bakkie?
Ten-percent max should be plenty.

Rich
DRSS

I just did visa over the phone and although VISA asked tons of questions to make sure I was who I said I was there were no problems. I'd be interested to know how people carry over 10k going through customs.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
I'd be interested to know how people carry over 10k going through customs.

There are no limits on how much money a US citizen can take overseas.

The only requirement is that he must declare how much he is carrying if it's $10,000 or more. There is a customs form for that.

A man can fill every pocket and suitcase he has with cash if he has it and wants to take it with him.

I prefer to keep mine in a big commercial bank.

I read something VERY interesting which could make payments locally AND worldwide VERY VERY SIMPLE and extremely convenient ..

Visa Money Transfers ONLINE are becoming reality in a number of world locations.

SIMPLY it works like this ......

Visa Corp owner of global e-payment network announced Visa Global Money Transfer Service in some countries wherby (Credit and Debit) card holders can (send money internationally) direct from their own (Visa Credit/Debit card) to another persons (Visa Credit/Debit card) anywhere worldwide where this system has been initiated or activated.

It will make sending money a breeze, keep up with which locations or countries are ONLINE and you wont be dissappointed

Cheers, Peter

I have done this several ways. On most safaris, I have paid a deposit at SCI or DSC, and paid the balance at the end of the hunt. On one hunt I wired a deposit, because the guy did not come to the convention, and paid the balance when I arrived in cash, before we started hunting. I have a hunt booked now that I paid the deposit at DSC, and have been told that I must pay the rest to their office in the US before the hunt begins.

RB, I had an outfit require the hunt (except trophy fees) paid in full before I left the states and I said NO THANKS. I told them I was born at night but not last night. You don't trust me I don't trust you. I have never paid any balance prior to the last day of the hunt. All that said I now hunt with the same PH and I left him with about $2500 when I left last year for things like shipping, packing, deposit on this years hunt which we hadn't even set up at the time. Ain't trust grand!

My two trips the PH and I settled up that last night around the dinner table or fire. I like that notion of ending things with due fees and gratuities then. The next morning, get up, eat, and make those sad goodbyes...

Next year...

Rich
DRSS

I made several payments of various types (shipping, reservations for other activities, accommodations, etc.) using electronic money transfer, both before leaving on my safari and after I returned. The astonishing thing, in this day and age, is that when I go to a major downtown branch of a national Canadian bank, in a metropolis of 3,000,000+ people, I always wind up waiting while the staff hems and haws and tries to find someone familiar with the procedure. A significant number of the tellers never seem to have heard of this type of transaction, and even those who know what to do are clearly uncomfortable with the job of doing it. In most cases, when the mention of Africa arises, I am questioned/grilled/interviewed until they are satisfied that I am not being taken in by some sort of international scam. I swear that they are delaying me while they check out front for my turnip truck.

I went with Roger Whitall and was able to send a check through the mail to his connection here in the states. didn't cost a thing other than postage. I would ask upfront if this is possible to avoid any bank transfer fees or foreign conversion fees. Everything adds up.

Last safari, I wired trophy fees to Malapati and Acacia safaris upon return to the states. I appreciate the trust they put in me. A two way street.

BTW, any operators out there want to extend Bill Phifer credit?

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
RB, I had an outfit require the hunt (except trophy fees) paid in full before I left the states and I said NO THANKS. I told them I was born at night but not last night. You don't trust me I don't trust you. I have never paid any balance prior to the last day of the hunt. All that said I now hunt with the same PH and I left him with about $2500 when I left last year for things like shipping, packing, deposit on this years hunt which we hadn't even set up at the time. Ain't trust grand!

Thats great you have a good relationship mate but what about the clients who dont come good with their promises... they are many and varied.

Do you pay your airline tickets when you get off the plane too??

I leave a deposit with my US based booking agent.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
RB, I had an outfit require the hunt (except trophy fees) paid in full before I left the states and I said NO THANKS. I told them I was born at night but not last night. You don't trust me I don't trust you. I have never paid any balance prior to the last day of the hunt. All that said I now hunt with the same PH and I left him with about $2500 when I left last year for things like shipping, packing, deposit on this years hunt which we hadn't even set up at the time. Ain't trust grand!

Ed, this is the first time I have been asked to pay for the safari before I had left the US, but I can see where they are coming from. I think they will be fair because I have hunted with them before, and I have a lot of friends who have hunted with them, although I do prefer to pay at the END of the hunt. I guess since they now have an office in the US, they would prefer to get paid here rather than in Zim and I won't have to take a lot of cash with me.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Thats great you have a good relationship mate but what about the clients who dont come good with their promises... they are many and varied.

Do you pay your airline tickets when you get off the plane too??

Matt makes the point perfectly.

You have to pay for an airline ticket, a cruise or any other type of holiday in advance just the same way as you have to pay for a car or a trolley load of food in advance, so why should a safari be any different?

There's also the fact that there are occasional flaky clients out there who ruin it for the vast majority of honest hunters..... In fact, it wasn't that long ago that there was a big dispute on AR over someone who partially paid with TCs and made the promise of later payment for the outstanding amount..... and then for whatever reason (allegedly) reported the TCs as stolen and reneged on the promise of payment.

There's also the possibility of someone promising later payment and then dropping dead on his flight home or arriving home to find his darling wife has cleared out all the bank accounts and furniture and done a bunk.

These things don't happen often, but they do happen and it's for all those reasons that the majority of safari companies need full payment before the conclusion of the hunt.

Admittedly there are companies out there that will take later payment but as I see it, all that means is that they have yet to get burned (accidentally or deliberately) and it's only a matter of time before they do.

I dont try to make the rules for the outfitter. He tells me how he works and I check references. If I dont like what I find, I can move on.

This is a tough situation for all involved. I have been on both sides of this problem. Plenty of times i have owed money at the end of a trip and sent it promptly when i was home. All worked for outfitter and myself. Once after i paid in full for a trip to Alaska,the trip went real bad. Was dropped off in the bush by plane and the guide met us there to say he would not be hunting with us that week. He actually wanted us to wait for a week and start the hunt a week later. After that disaster i felt a good down payment was in order,than pay the rest on arrival. Any extras at the end of the trip. Keeps both parties honest.

I guess my skeptical nature come from my first overseas hunt. I gave the booking agent a 50% deposit and he gave me the outfitters name and phone number. I called the outfitter a couple of months prior to the hunt just to work on some details. He told me he had not received the deposit and to be sure I was comming I should send the other 50%. I told him no way. I had already purchased the air fare and would pay the balance when we arrived. I said if I don't pay you you won't have to hunt my party. All worked well and it wasn't my only hunt with him, in fact he introduced to the African PH with who I have hunted over 6 times and will do again in a few months.

on the other hand: I bought a new HD ten days ago. I paid for it AFTER I took it for a test ride and they wrote the bill of sale, etc.

I also took a two week Safari for Plains Game in April, and had not paid a dime deposit before landing in Jo-Berg. A friend here in town helped me set up the hunt, and I was tickled that the PH would take me that way. He got his daily rate the next evening after I landed, but we were in hunting camp.
I would postulate that good references on both ends are the key, and that some negotiations are in order. The next trip with Reon I would be happy to pay, knowing that the PH is trustworthy.

Rich
DRSS

I'd hate to think that the uninitiated would get the impression that it is normal to not pay the full daily rate before going on safari. It is not. All the operators we work with want the daily rates and often some of the associated fees paid ahead. If you don't trust that the safari company is going to at least provide the basic daily serves covered by the daily rate you need to do some further research. I've personally never really considered that a safari company would somehow screw me on my daily rate.

The other side of coin is why would the safari company believe that every client is going to be honorable and pay their bill at safari's end? There are numerous reasons legitimate or not legitimate that might cause a client to decide not to pay their bill. Pre payment just avoids a lot of problems.

As Steve said you don't get to pay for a Caribean cruise once you arrive back at your home port so why would would anyone expect to pay for their safari once they've finished their hunt?

Mark

I do not like carrying cash so I have used the same agent for 08 and 09. For 08 I overpaid before I left. When I got home he credited me and I rolled it over to my 09 hunt deposit. In 09 I thought I had over paid but left Zim owing because of my last minute up-grade. The PH allowed me to send monthly checks to his US bank until paid off.

That is way it should work IMHO.

Have to agree with Mark, Steve, etc.
I would expect to pay the day rates before the hunt, or at least upon arrival (and any gov't license, etc.) Then I am happy paying trophy fees and any extras at the end.

So what about trophy fees? I had to pay the trophy fee on one hunt before I started hunting, to be refunded if I was unsuccessful, and I have been requested to deposit trophy fees in advance of leaving on another hunt. What is the common practice on this now?

The problem with the scenario that Rich has raised where the client pays on arrival is that if for any reason the client changes his mind or fails to show at the last minute (due to anything from health issues to death to change of mind to better offer elsewhere) the outfitter then has camp, supplies, area and staff all sitting there and having to be paid for out of his pocket and no client...... and that's no way to stay in business.

Again, these things don't happen often but they do happpen. We don't offer that facility but I know of more than one occasion where it's happened to other members of this forum.

This thread started out with JCS271 asking what means of payment people used to settle up at safari's end.

Not whether they paid daily rates up front.

As for settling up, here's a true story about trust and communication, for which there are no substitutes on earth.

One year, I settled up by paying my outfitter with a personal check at safari's end. That was in October.

A couple of months went by and I let his US agent know that he had not yet cashed my check.

By the time the SCI convention rolled around in late January of the next year, he still had not cashed my check.

I saw him at the convention and booked another safari with him.

As I was writing a personal check for the deposit, I asked him in passing if he ever intended to cash my settlement check from October of the previous year.

He looked at me with disbelief all over his face and said, "You mean we haven't cashed it yet?"

Nope.

I offered to write him another in case he had lost the original, but he said he would check with his father first, because his father probably still had it in his briefcase (his father handled the banking).

Yep - that's where it was, and a few weeks later they finally cashed it.

Gotta love it.

mrlexma,

You actually wrote a personal check on your account on a US bank and it was accepted in Africa? Wow!

Kudu4u

With a client of known integrity a personal check is not unusual particularly for trophy fees.

Mark

I have written many checks all over the world.

I am over carrying large amounts of cash. I can wire money from my cell or SAT phone. It is easy to leave a deposit with the booking agent.If they insist up large amounts of cash, I am not going. Why put yourself at risk?

I expect to pay 100% of the day rate and a trophy fee deposit before the hunt commences. I also expect to pay the balance upon my return to the states. I will not carry more cash than I need for incidentials and tips.

Carrying a third world fortune in hard currency is for the birds.

I cant believe that people still use checks in this day and age. Checks are like Bell Bottoms, they are 70's technology .

I dont believe there are any excuses in 2010 for not be able to either transfer money electronically via internet banking or using some form of payment card, being credit, debit, or even loaded money. There are even options nowdays to use a cell phone to make payments.

C'mon guys if we dont get electronically savvy we get left behind in the dust.

Cheers, Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
I cant believe that people still use checks in this day and age. Checks are like Bell Bottoms, they are 70's technology .

I dont believe there are any excuses in 2010 for not be able to either transfer money electronically via internet banking or using some form of payment card, being credit, debit, or even loaded money. There are even options nowdays to use a cell phone to make payments.

C'mon guys if we dont get electronically savvy we get left behind in the dust.

Cheers, Peter

Quite a lot of outfitters have clearing accounts in the USA or other means to clear US$ cheques. I get plenty of US$ cheques and am happy with that. In actual fact (for me) if a client shows up in the wilderness with stacks of cash it can be difficult because you cant pay expenses back home with cash but a cheque or credit card can easily be posted or wired. Oh yeah cash is nice too - but I cant pay may my office rent 2000 miles away with it!!

The fact that some of them take credit cards is really scary! scary because I figure I'll always have time to pay off a credit card, not necessarily time to go on a hunt seriously, I have been bad in the past (hell, not great now) and let myself get carried away, or keep too many irons in the fire, therefor I have some debt I'm slowly chipping away at. If not for that, I'd have been able to hunt africa already I even have permission from the commander.

but I do have a couple visas with 20+ limits on them........