If Jim says it, it must be true!

I like old Jim.

Such a very knowledgeable, and very funny man!

He used to have us in fits at the dinner table!

Bullet construction and shot placement, assuming an adequate cartridge in the first place are all that matter. No such thing as "knockdown power" but a larger caliber, more powerful round will buy you a bit on a bad shot, but not much. A shot in the guts is a major problem regardless of cartridge. Same thing with a missed brain shot.

I had a quartering away brain shot on an elephant. Tough angle, but I tried it. Bull went down front legs first. Clearly missed the brain. He was on a side hill and rolled. Follow up lung shots and we recovered the bull. But he was never unconscious despite a near miss brain shot that was sufficient to knock him down.

Don’t see the original article- MSN not there page.

It's actually an Outdoor Life article by Jim Carmichael and Ron Spomer:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/hu...nockdown-power-myth/

Quite a good balanced article by Jim.

I note he made the distinction between the knockdown myth which was the focus of his article, and Taylor's knock-out value which Jim himself agreed had some merit to it especially as it was intended to be a measure of effectiveness against head shot elephant in particular as that is what Taylor was in the business of shooting as a professional.

Jim also makes the point that Taylor's knock-out value is dependent on good marksmanship where a bullet closely misses the brain, not as he says where marksmanship is declining, combined with aversion to recoil, thus producing shots well off the mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...231201fc4d853f&ei=22

That's not a Outdoor life link.

Your link, England, does lead to it.

Thanks.

Reading it seems the most even handed approach to it that I have seen.

I would point out that I have seen several elephant shot in the head. I buy Taylor's observances only if you are talking about real near miss issues. Just hitting an elephant in the head doesn't knock him down at all, but if you get close to the brain, say an inch or so, then it seems to hold.

I have also seen the stun effect once with a squirrel and a .22 RF. My friend was a bit perturbed when his squirrel came back to life in his game pocket!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Quite a good balanced article by Jim.

I note he made the distinction between the knockdown myth which was the focus of his article, and Taylor's knock-out value which Jim himself agreed had some merit to it especially as it was intended to be a measure of effectiveness against head shot elephant in particular as that is what Taylor was in the business of shooting as a professional.

Jim also makes the point that Taylor's knock-out value is dependent on good marksmanship where a bullet closely misses the brain, not as he says where marksmanship is declining, combined with aversion to recoil, thus producing shots well off the mark.

Which is right.

There are those who wish to hunt with a big caliber, and are able to shoot it well.

Sadly, others who try bigger calibers are only doing it because they think a bigger hole, in the wrong place, would make up for their incompetence!

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

Some thoughts.

To me, the question of knock down power is only interesting as it relates to large, potentially dangerous game, such as Cape buffalo. All this talk of deer, etc., is just a distraction.

I have knocked down many large, heavy animals, including Cape buffalo, with one shot to the chest cavity.

It can be done and is the perfect outcome.

Large (.45-.50 caliber) bullets at relatively high muzzle velocity (2,400-2,500 fps) seem to be factors in achieving that outcome, but they do not make it a sure thing.

It helps, I think, if one can catch the animal calm and unaware. Adrenaline doesn't make them "bulletproof," but it does make them more tenacious of life.

The "heartbeat" explanation advanced in this article makes sense to me. After all, systolic blood pressure is higher than diastolic. So, it seems to me that a bullet to the heart as the muscle contracts might very well induce a stroke.

In any case, even if an animal doesn't drop to the shot, I think they die more quickly when faster, larger caliber bullets expand and wreck their vital organs, especially the heart.

quote:

In any case, even if an animal doesn't drop to the shot, I think they die more quickly when faster, larger caliber bullets expand and wreck their vital organs, especially the heart.

Mike

Edited on advice of counsel.

I sort of agree but the expanding bullets nowadays produce a big hole

Yes, agreed.

Put the bullet in the right place has been a truism for time immemorial.

What is new in our lifetimes is that we have developed excellent and reliable bullets, even of smaller calibers, that will hold together and almost always reach the vitals.

Not to say that I like small bores for big jobs.

I still prefer the bigger (and fast) bullets for that sort of thing!

Jim shot a croc with a 338 WM.

They put it in the boat with them.

The croc wasn’t dead and woke up!

Listening to him telling the story is quite hairy!