Did anyone else get an email invite to buy a ticket on a ticket on a Zambesi Buff hunt? The email came from Jan@sportinginternational and the tickets were $250 presumably US

Do you mean this, to benefit Ade Langley? (Atcheson's also sent out)

http://www.keeganlangleytrust.org/ - Click on "Hunt Raffle", then "more information" at the bottom

quote:

FULLY ALL INCLUSIVE BUFFALO HUNT incl Air Fares etc
The Keegan Langley Trust was established in mid-April 2009 with the express purpose of raising money to cover the medical costs of a young Zimbabwean scholar critically injured in a motor accident. The boy, Keegan Langley aged 18, is the son of PH Ade Langley. This package has been kindly donated to the Trust by HHK Safaris and Matupula Safaris, Zimbabwe.

THIS “ALL IN” HUNT VALUED AT $26,000 INCLUDES:
*Full daily rates for 10 day Buffalo bull and plains game hunt for 1 hunter and 1 observer.
*Full daily rates for 2 days all inclusive for 2 at Gorges Lodge, Victoria Falls.
*Trophy fees for 1 buffalo male, 1 kudu male, 1 zebra and 1 impala male.
*International airfare to Victoria Falls and return for hunter, plus charters Vic Falls to and from the
safari area for hunter and observer.
*All dip and pack charges plus international shipping of trophies.
*2% government levies on daily rates and trophy fees.
*MARS International medical cover for hunter plus observer.

Hunt will take place in winner’s choice of Chirisa, Sengwa, or Chete Safari Areas for 2009 or 2010.

TICKETS LIMITED Only 250 tickets will be offered at $250 per ticket.
Drawing to be held 31 July 2009.

FOR FULL INFORMATION, visit www.keeganlangleytrust.org (Click on Hunt Flier Page)

TO BUY YOUR TICKETS: Send a check made out to the Keegan Langley Trust with your full contact details phone and email and clearly marked ‘Buffalo Hunt’. Post your check to Jennifer Ryan c/o BTC Safari Outfitters, 125-C North Broad Street, Suite 313, Thomasville. Georgia 31792. Contact Jennifer Ryan at email Jennifer@btcsafaris.com

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Do you mean this, to benefit Ade Langley?

CLICK HERE TO OPEN PDF

How thoughtful and generous!
IMO it is just another way of marketing a hunt though at the expense of others misfortunes.
From a quick calculation and on assumption all 250 tickets get sold are we to understand that Ade Langley
benefits from the balance, ie. $36,250?.........that would be great!
What if only 104 are sold ($26,000)to secure the hunt?........does Ade Langley benfit at all?
What if the target of $26,000 to cover the hunt is not met by the set or extended date?.........will Ade Langley collect this amount?
In the event of a "No Show" for either parties there is no mention of any refund.
Will BTC Safari Outfitters undertake sending cheques back to their origin at their own expense?

I think this is a worthy cause. I don't know why anyone would be negative about it.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:
How thoughtful and generous!
IMO it is just another way of marketing a hunt though at the expense of others misfortunes.
From a quick calculation and on assumption all 250 tickets get sold are we to understand that Ade Langley
benefits from the balance, ie. $36,250?.........that would be great!
What if only 104 are sold ($26,000)to secure the hunt?........does Ade Langley benfit at all?
What if the target of $26,000 to cover the hunt is not met by the set or extended date?.........will Ade Langley collect this amount?
In the event of a "No Show" for either parties there is no mention of any refund.
Will BTC Safari Outfitters undertake sending cheques back to their origin at their own expense?

Per the webpage NOW linked above and referenced in the pdf:

quote:

Only 250 tickets will be sold.

Any checks received after the 250th ticket is sold will be referred back to the sender.

If all tickets are not sold by specified date, the Trust reserves the right to delay the draw for a period not exceeding two weeks, at which time the draw will take place regardless.

Kibo - I believe your interpretation of how the monies will be distributed is incorrect, and your assertion that this is only to "sell a hunt" ridiculous. I will try to clarify to what extent this will benefit Keegan...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Per the webpage NOW linked above and referenced in the pdf:

quote:

Only 250 tickets will be sold.

Any checks received after the 250th ticket is sold will be referred back to the sender.

Kibo - I believe your interpretation of how the monies will be distributed is incorrect, and your assertion that this is only to "sell a hunt" ridiculous. I will try to find out...

I have read the entire contents of the PDF and there is no mention made on refunds as outlined in my post.
Please read my post carefully.

"Read my post carefully" - what do you mean? is there some hidden message, or inside info that you are aware of? I realize you went off half-cocked as the PDF emailed around did not have the other info listed, but it did have the website address and links listed (which I revised my post to reflect), I apologize for not having spotted this sooner to make it easier for all.

I sent an email to the parties involved asking how much (%) of the amt goes to the Trust, and will post any reply. It is a good question, but further speculation prior just hurts what may indeed be a very noble cause. If you want to take this further for now, email/pm me.

Regards,

Bill

In the first paragraph it clearly says the hunts were donated. Even if "donated" doesn't mean donated, it is still a good cause, tax deductible, and good odds at something I would like to do. I prefer to assume a noble cause and will be purchasing a ticket.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
"Read my post carefully" - what do you mean? is there some hidden message, or inside info that you are aware of? I realize you went off half-cocked as the PDF emailed around did not have the other info listed, but it did have the website address and links listed (which I revised my post to reflect), I apologize for not having spotted this sooner to make it easier for all.

I sent an email to the parties involved asking how much (%) of the amt goes to the Trust, and will post any reply. It is a good question, but further speculation prior just hurts what may indeed be a very noble cause. If you want to take this further for now, email/pm me.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,
I did not go off half-cocked as you claim.
The questions posed were:
Assuming 250 tickets are sold ($62,500) ..how much to our unfortunate friend?
Assuming once more that only 104 are sold ($26,000) ....how much to the beneficiary?
Assuming only 75 are sold ($18,750).....how much to the beneficiary?
Anything wrong in asking how Ade Langley will benefit from this?

Only 250 tickets will be sold - why the limit?....why not sell more?
Isn't the object of the exercise to try and raise as much as possible?

And because it is a donated hunt to the tune of $26,000 (full blown package, air fare/charter/trophy fees all inclusive)
instead of trying to flog it by way of guaranteed returns, auction the hunt as has been done for other similar worthy causes.


Regards/Kibo

Someone always has to piss in the pot!

It clearly states that all funds received will go to benefit the young man. They should have no problem selling all 250 tickets.

I wish them the best.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
"Read my post carefully" - what do you mean? is there some hidden message, or inside info that you are aware of? I realize you went off half-cocked as the PDF emailed around did not have the other info listed, but it did have the website address and links listed (which I revised my post to reflect), I apologize for not having spotted this sooner to make it easier for all.

I sent an email to the parties involved asking how much (%) of the amt goes to the Trust, and will post any reply. It is a good question, but further speculation prior just hurts what may indeed be a very noble cause. If you want to take this further for now, email/pm me.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,
I did not go off half-cocked as you claim.
The questions posed were:
Assuming 250 tickets are sold ($62,500) ..how much to our unfortunate friend?
Assuming once more that only 104 are sold ($26,000) ....how much to the beneficiary?
Assuming only 75 are sold ($18,750).....how much to the beneficiary?
Anything wrong in asking how Ade Langley will benefit from this?

Only 250 tickets will be sold - why the limit?....why not sell more?
Isn't the object of the exercise to try and raise as much as possible?

And because it is a donated hunt to the tune of $26,000 (full blown package, air fare/charter/trophy fees all inclusive)
instead of trying to flog it by way of guaranteed returns, auction the hunt as has been done for other similar worthy causes.


Regards/Kibo

Your questions are valid, but the way you have posed them is hardly cordial.

As for the structure of the raffle, there are many ways to do this sort of thing.

None of those you have suggested would be demonstrably any better than the structure adopted.

The important thing here is that good people are trying to help someone in dire circumstances.

I would be the last one to criticize such an effort based on the facts at hand.

quote:

From: jennifer@btcsafaris.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:02 PM
To: bill@wyodata.com
Subject: Re: BUFFALO HUNT RAFFLE

I am happy to answer all questions raised about the raffle.

100% of the money raised will go to the Langley family. Keegan's father, Ade Langley works with our company, HHK Safaris, so we were more than happy to help him. HHK donated the buffalo hunt and Matupula Safaris teamed up with others and made the hunt all inclusive. The Trust decided how to structure the raffle and decided to sell only 250 tickets in order to make this raffle fair and reasonable to participants.

This raffle is no doubt for a good cause as well as being a great deal for the winner! We have many tickets available for those interested.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions/concerns.

Best Regards,
Jennifer Ryan
Jennifer@btcsafaris.com

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
"Read my post carefully" - what do you mean? is there some hidden message, or inside info that you are aware of? I realize you went off half-cocked as the PDF emailed around did not have the other info listed, but it did have the website address and links listed (which I revised my post to reflect), I apologize for not having spotted this sooner to make it easier for all.

I sent an email to the parties involved asking how much (%) of the amt goes to the Trust, and will post any reply. It is a good question, but further speculation prior just hurts what may indeed be a very noble cause. If you want to take this further for now, email/pm me.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,
I did not go off half-cocked as you claim.
The questions posed were:
Assuming 250 tickets are sold ($62,500) ..how much to our unfortunate friend?
Assuming once more that only 104 are sold ($26,000) ....how much to the beneficiary?
Assuming only 75 are sold ($18,750).....how much to the beneficiary?
Anything wrong in asking how Ade Langley will benefit from this?

Only 250 tickets will be sold - why the limit?....why not sell more?
Isn't the object of the exercise to try and raise as much as possible?

And because it is a donated hunt to the tune of $26,000 (full blown package, air fare/charter/trophy fees all inclusive)
instead of trying to flog it by way of guaranteed returns, auction the hunt as has been done for other similar worthy causes.


Regards/Kibo

Your questions are valid, but the way you have posed them is hardly cordial.

As for the structure of the raffle, there are many ways to do this sort of thing.

None of those you have suggested would be demonstrably any better than the structure adopted.

The important thing here is that good people are trying to help someone in dire circumstances.

I would be the last one to criticize such an effort based on the facts at hand.

MR,

I don't like beating about the bush on certain issues so my questions can appear to be rather blunt.
Raffles consist in the sale of tickets hence a guaranteed return and in this case someone is covering their butts.
I have only suggested one alternative (auction) as has been done in other cases where the highest bidder "takes all"
and the winner has realistically proved his goodwill towards the cause through his bids.
The important thing here is that "good people are hoping to get a cheap hunt for $250" which is the average cost of
4 persons dining out.
If there was real concern for the welfare of our friend Ade Langley I have yet to see a post where someone has spontaneously
offered a financial donation without having to buy a ticket.

Rgds/Kiboko

My only criticism is directed at the manner in which these funds are being sought.

kibo, your a real prize! Are there large rocks in Tanzania? Maybe big enough to crawl under? Maybe you can be the first to post a donation without the benefit of a ticket for a chance at a hunting trip. Otherwise, you know ...the rock thing.

I was happy to buy a ticket and support this cause. And I understand it is terribly unlikely that I wll win the buffalo hunt and benefit in any way. I am perfectly fine with that. This seems like one of those truly obvious cases where good people need the help of many others in their time of need. I may not jump on every band wagon, but this one was good enough for me. The check was sent Saturday.

Bill

I'm feeling lucky. I just mailed my check.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
kibo, your a real prize! Are there large rocks in Tanzania? Maybe big enough to crawl under? Maybe you can be the first to post a donation without the benefit of a ticket for a chance at a hunting trip. Otherwise, you know ...the rock thing.

If you really feel something for that youngster put your money where your mouth is without a raffle ticket.
The attraction is the possibility of the hunt, even at 250:1 and you know it!

quote:

"RAFFLE: A raffle is a competition in which people buy numbered tickets. Originating in southern Italy, it is a popular game in numerous countries and is often held to raise funds for a specific event, charity, or occasion. The raffle involves many people buying tickets for a chance to win a certain prize or prizes."

I suspect the Langley's don't care what one's motivation for buying a ticket is, to be charitable, to score a cheap buffalo hunt...or both!

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
kibo, your a real prize! Are there large rocks in Tanzania? Maybe big enough to crawl under? Maybe you can be the first to post a donation without the benefit of a ticket for a chance at a hunting trip. Otherwise, you know ...the rock thing.

If you really feel something for that youngster put your money where your mouth is without a raffle ticket.
The attraction is the possibility of the hunt, even at 250:1 and you know it!

Hey! I sent some money to benefit the young man about a month ago, long before there was a raffle. Ain't I wonderful???

Am I angry that I won't get a chance for a hunt because I had no incentive to send a few bucks... heck no. I just hope the young man and his family can get through a very tough time with the help of other folks, regardless of the reason for contributing.

I wish my motives were always pure... I'm dating a particularly beautiful lady right now. I try to be nice to her because she deserves it, but do I hope for some "reward" (and I hope much better than 1:250).

Does that make me a bad person or just human?

Just to reinforce, what Bill C said is absolutely true. 100% of proceeds go to the family. I was approached a couple of months ago on this for advice on ticket price and number of tickets so I knew all of underlying items. HHK is 100% donating the safari.

I plan to buy at least 1 or 2.

I think it tremendous when the hunting community comes together to support one another. How it took a twist here is beyond me.

Larry

Kibo,

YOU mis-read or mis-understood the details of the raffle. Let it go. Nobody likes a "spoiler".

Bob

Free Bump

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
Kibo,

YOU mis-read or mis-understood the details of the raffle. Let it go. Nobody likes a "spoiler".

Bob

Free Bump

I misunderstood Sweet Fanny Adams ! You just never realized where my posts were leading to.

Only one gentleman had the balls to admit that if it wasn't for the stakes there would be very few contributors to the
KLT Fund. The attraction of the hunt is what has effectively drawn the "big spenders" out in the open.

In my book charity always begins at home and I do not believe in raffles of this particular nature to support a charitable
act - My donations have always been paid directly to the individual or Institution.

My admiration goes to those who genuinely donated to the KLT Fund, out of good heart.

So my friend, just jump on the bandwagon and hope you win yourself a "freebie hunt"

quote:

You just never realized where my posts were leading to

BS! Please don't try to now add any sort of logic or pre-meditated intent to your scattered ramblings and complaints about how this noble fund raising event is structured.

quote:

...if it wasn't for the stakes there would be very few contributors to the KLT Fund.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK! Hence the raffle!!!!

I suspect the Langley's don't care what one's motivation for buying a ticket is, to be charitable, to score a cheap buffalo hunt...or both!

Kib:

I think you, I, and everyone else should realize that HHK stepped up to the plate for one of their P.H.'s and donated, as you said, "out of good heart". I think that's pretty darn cool, btw.

I can think of a zillion things in life that have mutual benefit to the giver and the receiver. I patronize friends' businesses because they give good service and I don't mind a bit to get theirs in return. I am kind to my dog so he won't bite my ass. I give time and money to my church because I'm commanded to do so, but such giving also is a reminder that I need to walk the walk and not just talk about it.

So... in the great scheme of things, who really gives a rat's butt where the money comes. A young man and his family are in extremis. Mana, be it from heaven or from a guy who would like to win a safari, still provides subsitance.... and who am I (or you) to fuss about a legal act that looks like it will be a win/win deal.

JMHO

I imagine that there are some folks who are just gambling, some that the "prize" tipped the scales to do what was right and some that would have given anyway and won't be in the least bit disappointed if they don't win.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
Kibo,

YOU mis-read or mis-understood the details of the raffle. Let it go. Nobody likes a "spoiler".

Bob

Free Bump

I misunderstood Sweet Fanny Adams ! You just never realized where my posts were leading to.

Only one gentleman had the balls to admit that if it wasn't for the stakes there would be very few contributors to the
KLT Fund. The attraction of the hunt is what has effectively drawn the "big spenders" out in the open.

In my book charity always begins at home and I do not believe in raffles of this particular nature to support a charitable
act - My donations have always been paid directly to the individual or Institution.

My admiration goes to those who genuinely donated to the KLT Fund, out of good heart.

So my friend, just jump on the bandwagon and hope you win yourself a "freebie hunt"

Kibo, you would be an utter, complete and miserable failure as a fundraiser.

Raffles, on the other hand, are an effective, tried and proven way to raise funds for a good cause.

And this raffle is 100% for the benefit of the good cause.

I do not fault your principles, but I would remind you of Voltaire's famous maxim: "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.", which I would roughly translate as: "The best is the enemy of the good."

Put another way, it is a proven fact that pursuing the "best" or "ideal" course of action will often result in doing less actual good than pursuing a course of action that, although not perfect, is nonetheless far more practical and effective.

kibo,

It is a two way street. Sure many will donate because the raffle is there but also if it was a pure raffle without a good cause a lot fewer would gett in on it. I am one of them. I wouldn't spend a penny if HHK or any other company simply offered one of their hunts up for raffle but because they are willing to donate to a ood cause I applaud that jesture of good will and I am willing to help out even though I know there is little if any chance of me winning.

465H&H

Dang, 465H&H:

You said it much better than I did, and in a heck lot of less words.

+1

Luckily, everyone in Tanzania is not a horse's ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Luckily, everyone in Tanzania is not a horse's ass.

Lot more horses in Texas than in Tanzania

We exported all their asses to Tanzania so they could meet their local requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
We exported all their asses to Tanzania so they could meet their local requirements.

We have expressed opinions within our own rights, whether they be right or wrong, and we respect each other for it; we dig at one another but have not insulted each other until you popped up; insults will get you nowhere and certainly won't make you a man. Now go buy yourself a couple of tickets for a noble cause.

Damn it! Why didn't Craig think of raffling hunts instead of auctioning them?

Oh, you feel you were insulted? I'm sorry I was making a general observation, but since you felt you fit the category, so be it.

And, while I won't presume to speak for Mr. Boddington and his reasons for doing anything, there are many legal problems with interstate and some intrastate raffles in the United States and I suspect that entered into his decision.

A bump for a fine cause...

I've not seen an update on Keegan's condition since 22 June (the last on the website). Any word?

Mark

2 JULY

Dear all,


Keegs has had a wonderful fulfilling week and is busy, tired and stimulated. So much so that there has been little time to interact with him.


Speech thereapy continues with facial and throat exercises so that he can swallow easily. The doctor is giving it stick to get rid of the thrush that is in his whole body. He is presently being anti-fungalled out. No wonder he does not want to swallow - it is sore! He also is not happy about having oral care and teeth cleaning 6 times a day - but his teeth sparkle! Again it is an irritation and he bites/clamps/ the toothbrush.
He has to unlearn the response that swallowing with your mouth open is possible. He has learnt this super human feat at Milpark.....try it...I cant. Will give a whole new meaning to glugging beer.


Occupational and Physio are pulling and pushing him so that he is able to hold his neck up - admittedly he gets tired quickly - and that he can stretch out muscles so that they cramp less. This process though will be on going for the next year, or even longer as the brain send messages that cannot be turned off. When he cramps we have to move him to break the message input. All confusing.


Pleasing news is that his legs can bear his weight, which bodes well for when he walks one day. Yesterday he was fitted for new foot splints that are moulded to the shape of his leg and foot so that there is very little chance that he will get spastic withered feet. However, because the feet will take the longest to get good messages to and so that he can gain full control of his leg muscles, it is suggested that he will not be ready to learn how to walk again for at least another year. So today and the next 10 days I will be looking out for a second hand/ rent/ wheelchair. At least he can sit in the sun with us and be part of the group.


New arms splints have been remoulded so that his arms are set into a position and that the spasms cannot deteriote his posture more. He looks a bit like the movies where the guys has broken his elbow and the arms is at a 45 - 70 degree angle. Bit of a mission getting him through the doors with h is wheelchair.


The best part of the last 10 days is how he is trying to interact with us. He will smile so that his teeth show, and frown when he is angry and grimace when he is pain. So all this non verbal language has been great. We also need to work on communication so that even a grunt will mean one thing and not something else.


So often we assume he is further along than he is and we have to go back a step and reteach it all to him again. Next week we will try to stimulate him with touch,small and sight so that he can relearn names of things and their associations. And you all thought that Occupational and Physio therapists had it EASY!


Ok will not have access to internet for a while again.
Have a good weekend. For all the boys going to the Grahamstown Festival have a good intelligent break. For those going for Hockey trials - give it horns and hope Falcon does a landslide selection.


Bye all -

Thanks so much!

Forward progress, small victories; all good news! Our prayers continue for this lad...

Mark

BTT- Need to keep this one in front of us for a bit longer. Prayers out to this lad and his family.

13 July

It has been three weeks since our last ‘update’ – really because there has been little to report.


Keegan is now settled into the home at 201 Ecclestone, undergoing speech, occupational and physio therapy. His mother Sally is in constant attendance, assisting wherever possible, and learning the necessary techniques, so that she can continue with the treatment even when the specialists have departed.


By all accounts, progress IS being made, but it is SLOW. Keegan does respond to stimuli, but the long road ahead appears to be stretching over many, many months.


Keegan’s parents are now considering the long term best interests for Keegan, that is whether he should stay put, or move down to the town of George on the South Coast, where his grandparents live and can take care of him, or whether he would be better off closer to home in Bulawayo. Each option is full of pros and cons, hence an extremely difficult decision to make.


On the fund-raising side, the extreme generosity of literally thousands of people has ensured that the Trust Fund is in a healthy position. The Trustees have agreed to give the battered and shell-shocked public in Zimbabwe a break for now. Their response has been unbelievable to date.


There are one or two further events planned for this year, most notably a fund-raising dinner down in George in November, and hopefully a cricket match starring national players in September. We also continue to sell tickets in the USA for a donated buffalo hunt, and if all these events turn out as expected, we should have sufficient funding to meet all Keegan’s requirements into the New Year.


After that ? We shall re-assess his requirements and get on with it again !


Finally, in view of Keegan’s current stability, further updates will be posted at less regular intervals than in the past. However if anyone wants further information on any matter related to Keegan or to the fund-raising, please contact the Trust’s offices at: falcontob@netconnect.co.zw.


Thank you.


UNTIL NEXT TIME………

Kibo,

I hope you have read the above. I don't think your responses would be the same. There is an edit feature on this forum. You may elect to use it.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Kibo,

I hope you have read the above. I don't think your responses would be the same. There is an edit feature on this forum. You may elect to use it.

Jeff

Jeff,
Admit that if it weren't for the lure of a $250 (freebie) hunt, the response would not have attracted so
many punters.
A raffle after all is a gamble with the odds in this case set at 250:1

I still feel it is not right to use the raffle system as a fundraiser for such a sensitive cause - I would have
somehow preferred to have seen an auction with a minimum acceptable bid limit which in my opinion would have
identified the precious few who really cared for the kid and battled it out between themselves, regardless if the
hunt went under the hammer for twice it's value.