Has any one heard of the sale on Double rifles at Target department stores in the states?

Hmmm, none of the the Targets in my area sell guns.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Hmmm, none of the the Targets in my area sell guns.
Peter.

Same here that I have seen. Wish they did sell guns, same with Walmart's in my area, no guns and piss poor ammo selection.

Toy ones, maybe. That just doesn't sound right.

As long as they are on sale, would you mind picking me up a Westley Richards droplock in .476? (My LOP is 15")

Target stores don't sell firearms...

Maybe targets went on sale at some gun shop. Sounds like dyslexia to me.

I can recall that as late as 1990 Target was selling ammunition for rimfire (.22 LR) and centerfire pistol ammunition (9mm Luger and .45 ACP) in some stores in Oregon.

Namibiahunter

Target is owned by Dayton/Hudson Coin Minneapolis.....way too liberal to sell guns!

There aren't any guns, let alone double rifles, being sold at Target. The closest you'll ever get anything to do with firearms is their logo.

Okay IronWorker, I think we collectively "give". What's the punch line?

I confess there is no truth to my question.On the sports channel here in SF bay area they lately showed several 30 minute episodes about dangerous game hunting in Africa all done with a guide carrying a double rifle. I did a search on prices and I couldn't believe the prices, I mean 10 grand was almost the cheapest ,some going to $30,000 bucks.I guess I just wanted to see the reaction to this silly thread I started.

I raced right down to the local mall to get one. They must have been on back-order, because I got a rain check. They said they'd call me when "hell freezes over". Can hardly wait!

IronWorker378, the other possibility is that you really didn't know that Target didn't sell doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
I confess there is no truth to my question...I guess I just wanted to see the reaction to this silly thread I started.

Satisfied with the results?

OneFunzer I wish I could think of some thing in the business world that could get hits like this! So have you been to the Tonkin gulf lately?

Back to the Double rifles. Why are they so expensive? Is it because they're all custom? Ya I be that's the reason,no production lines for doubles over here or any where.

The best ones are hand made and therefore very time consuming to build....... top quality doubles can be around the US$175000 mark.

You might find this link interesting: http://www.shakariconnection.com/double-rifles.html

Lets see now I count 6 digits in that # Is that 175,000 dollars? One hundred and seventy five thousand dollars ?

Yes, and you could change the first three numbers to: 200 and above, depending on the make, quality, rarity, caliber, etc. A Holland and Holland Royal Double in 700NE is 138 thousand British Pounds.

At Holland and Holland's booth at SCI they usually have some that top $200,000. Of course with the current exchange rates, they may be down to $175,000 by now.

There are doubles available below $10,000. Typically they are not in dangerous game calibers, although it was not that many years ago that I saw Merkel .470s at $6500-7500.

The imported "Remington" doubles in .30-06 and .45-70 are around $1000, aren't they?

There is a lot to read on the Double Rifle board here or at NitroExpress.Com.

Ironworker, drive over to Reno and the SCI show and you can handle a bunch of rifles with price tags hanging off them with well over 6 figures in the asking price.

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
I confess there is no truth to my question. On the sports channel here in SF bay area they lately showed several 30-minute episodes about dangerous game hunting in Africa all done with a guide carrying a double rifle. I did a search on prices and I couldn't believe the prices, I mean 10 grand was almost the cheapest, some going to $30,000 bucks. I guess I just wanted to see the reaction to this silly thread I started.

Why the surprise? $10k is a cheap double rifle and not as expensive as many well made bolt rifles. That is amazing when one considers a bolt rifle can be completely made by machines, on a no skill assembly line like junk cars! The bolt rifle that has to sell for more than $10K has to have a person who is very skilled do the work that guarantees the rifle will work when a Cape buffalo is closing on the owner fast, with mayhem on his mind. Skilled labor is expensive, and machines cannot make double rifles, and all work building them require skilled labor!

quote:

Lets see now I count 6 digits in that # Is that 175,000 dollars? One hundred and seventy five thousand dollars ?

EXPENSIVE AIN'T THEY? There is a real reason why they are expensive.

Ironworker378, The S/S double rifle is one of the most complex firearms in the history of the world to build properly, and the average double rifle requires 800 hours of very skilled labor to finish. The doubles you found that were in the $10K range are field rifles with absolutely no frills, with much of the work taken on, where possible, by machines. These are rifles like the field grade Merkels, Chapuis, Krieghoff, and Blaser. All start out a rough castings for the actions, with the initial machine done by programmed CNC machines. This cuts the cost considerably. Many of the parts are rough shaped either by casting, or cut out of a sheet of steel by computer guided laser cutters. This cuts cost considerably, but this is not the end of the work needed to build a double rifle that works, and shoots where it is supposed to. After this machine work is completed, then the handwork begins. Right here is where the real cost comes in to the final price, and can't be done any other way. The cost of skilled labor begins to make the price climb, to what you consider to be "VERY EXPENSIVE" of around $10K, which is cheap for even a no frills, but good used double rifle.

In the higher-grade double rifle all these parts a made from raw material to the finished product by hand from forgings. If you have checked what skilled machinists charge for bench time lately, you will quickly see that even as low as $100 per hour bench time, 800 hours will make the cost rise quickly, before any profit, or import, and shipping fees. Even at machinist’s prices, I'd predict, there not more than a half dozen people in the USA who can build even a workable double rifle, that one can defend his life with confidence

When you consider the life of a well-made double rifle, they are not expensive at all! I have a Westley Richards that was sold out of the London store front in 1892, and it works as well today as it did when the maker finished it, and it has appreciated considerably by today. That is in exact opposition to what happens to most bolt rifles. Like used cars, the price get cheaper as it is being driven off the showroom floor, when new, and in an average 10 yrs it is in the junk yard, and cost an average of $30,000 new, at ten years is only booked at $3K for a good one. Any brain dead worker can work on an assembly line, putting the same bolt in the same hole 8 hours a day, and we all know what a good product comes off the other end of that line! However nobody blinks twice at $30K for a junk car, which needs a magnet on the back bumper to pick up the parts as they fall off.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
. . . it was not that many years ago that I saw Merkel .470s at $6500-7500.

Charles, not too long ago a new Chevy cost that much!

But back to the subject of this silly thread, one cannot even buy a target at Target, much less a rifle to shoot it with.

Ok now I understand its about man hours.To some one that has many digits in his bank account. that price is doable..They can afford that kind of extravagance and encourage them to continue living that life style, because the rich keep me working.I'm a happy camper with my lot in life my Mod 70 and Colt Anaconda they bark every time I pull their trigger.

Someone else to put on my "ignore" list. Sigh!
Peter.

Men (and somne women I'm sure) covet double rifles and in fact ANY expensive firearm for the same reason they covet expensive cars, homes they don't actually live in and high maintainence women. Don't ask me to explain it cause I can't!
The other reason men own double rifles is because of their useful roll in particular situations. Just as an expensive excavating machine can't be replaced by a shovel sometimes you have to make a painful investment due to your line of work (or sport). It's an attraction some will never understand or cultivate and that's OK. If you're content without one that is wonderful.
Where the problems begin is when someone who feels no need for a particular item be it a particular type rifle, guns in general or even high maintainence women, feels nobody else needs them either!

As an afterthought to my above post... I don't mean to insinuate that everyone who desires expensive double rifles also indulges in the other "vices" mentioned!
Quite the contrary. Many actually pass on the other desirable things in life to be able to own such a fine firearm. Likewise to be able to indulge our desires of hunting Africa, Alaska, Asia or where ever. Quite often we even give up the desire to own that coveted double to be able to go hunting!

OUPA I like what you said. Loaded with wisdom.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Someone else to put on my "ignore" list. Sigh!
Peter.

yep. sigh...

Wow, this has been an exercise in, well, something.........

What was the point of this post again? I must have overlooked it.......