Shakari,

Credit cards are by far the easiest method to use if it can be arranged. The customer gets best exchange rates without an exchange fee, no wire trnsfer fees, the provider gets his money instantly, the client does not have to carry large sums of money, there are a whole host of reasons why it would be better to use plastic.

The 3-4% upcharge would be acceptable, but I believe that the benefits of credit cards would be more convinent for both parties, and therefore a sharing of this expense would be the appropriate way to handle this fee.

There is a reason why credit cards are so popular!

BigBullet

Steve,

On my last trip to RSA the outfitter used credit cards to settle up all charges at the end of the hunt. These included 1/2 the daily rate, trophy fees, gifts and extras purchased there. [be sure to tell your Credit Card company in advance that you will be making such charges in another country]

There was never any mention of an additional charge for using the credit card. It is a logical solution to provide for clients
so that they may avoid traveling half way around the world with their pockets stuffed with cash.

[Anyway, charging extra to use the major credit cards is, I believe, a violation of the credit card contracts.]

There was a discussion a while ago of the booking agent holding the funds until the hunt is completed. Also wire transfers could be prearranged and/or held by a third party. [Was it Don Causey, The Hunting Report, that discussed establishing such an intermediary?]

Les

Interesting. In my case 1/2 the costs was paid upon booking the hunt and the other half was paid 60 days prior to the hunt. This was done by personal check.

Now the interesting thing is that it's always the case that while one is hunting he sees a great steenbok that he didn't have on his paid trophy list and Bang. You now add a steenbok to the list and it's not paid. Because I had already established a credit rating by writing two checks of reasonable size, I was allowed to settle the final bill with a check. I took some cash with me and used credit cards for other purchases such as hotels and gift purchases. Strange but the issue of paying for the trip just was never a problem for me. I must say that use of the credit card when possible solves a lot of issues including exchange rates which are fairly dealt with by the card company.

Maybe I was just lucky but upon my return trip the thought of taking a couple thou in cash is not a troubling thought at all.

Not being a businessman, I'm not quite sure what the cost of haveing a credit card facility involves. Many smaller firms do simply not want to pay the cost of renting the actual "credit card reader" and connection fees to be able to accept credit cards as a method of payment. I do not know any - not saying there are none, just that I don't know them - hunting outfitters who have credit card facilities.

Almost exactly the scenario described by vapodog happened to mone of my recent clients: Bang! Down goes a gemsbuck. A few seconds later: Bang! Down goes a red hartebeest, and also the client's cash budget. Fortunately we had time to visit my bank during business hours, and he could pay directly into my account with his credit card. No problem.

Bottom line is: It is very costly to have credit card acceptance facilities, and it may not become standard for hunting outfitters to do so?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

We occasionally have clients who have misjudged the number of shooting opportunities they might have and consequently not bought enough money with them on safari and then they're then faced with a choice of cutting down on what they want to take or of us "making a plan" for them.

Assuming we know the client we usually just say take what you want and send us the money when you get home.....and we've never had anyone renege on that agreement - but I can't help but feel that a credit card arrangement might be a lot easier & safer for everyone concerned (I don't like carrying large amounts of cash across Africa either!)......We would be happy to do this as long as it didn't cost us any additional money on the transfer itself.

One way for us to get over that is obviously just to add on the bank percentage to our trophy fees - but I won't do that as it's unfair to those who prefer to pay with cash or T/C's. So I guess the answer is to offer the facility to clients but explain they have to pay the additional charges.......which would probably be less than the alternative of other payment methods......obviously there's a monthly fee for us to have this facility but we would be prepared to accept the cost of that ourselves.

Andrew,

FNB now offer a 24/7 telephone facility which we could use to debit the clients card and pay into our USD account. There's no machine needed other than a telephone.

Why the upcharge to use a credit card? Retail prices are the same here whether cash, check or credit. Same thing for good over there as I always do my shopping on VISA. Your retailers do not charge extra either. Not in my experience.

Many credit card companys are now adding an additional charge for the use of the card overseas. I have never had an outfitter in Africa that would not advance a reasonable about of credit, after all he still has your trophies.

Ann,

FNB who offer the facility charge (dependant on amount) 3 to 4%. It's their charge - not ours.

I guess most normal retailers simply add on the percentage to all their products and then if the customer pays cash then it's an additional 3 or 4% into their profit margin. - but that's not our style. I'd regard that as being dishonest to the hunters who prefer to pay by cash or T/C's.

I would prefer to put money in a escrow account with the booking agent (assuming that your using one and he/she is trustworthy). Then at the end of the hunt money is transfered to the outfitter and any left over funds would be returned to the hunter.

Did that on my last trip to Zim. Had enough to cover all things, including the bigger of the tips.

Worked out very well. I did bring some cash for tipping the staff and other stuff.

Just make sure that it's all covered in a contract.

-Steve

Steve,

We rarely use agents nowadays so that wouldn't really be a viable proposition for us.....

Steve,

Do you have an account based in the U.S.? Perhaps a transfer of funds into that account would work.

I did that to pay for a some things after I returned from RSA last June. Just called them and arranged to send them a check. It worked out very well. No wire fees, etc...

In any case having as many options for payment as possible seems to me to be a good idea.

-Steve

Shakari!

I have booked through Atcheson's on my last 4 safaris. I send them a check to hold the hunt dates and species I want. Usually around half of the daily rate. Then before I leave I send them enough $$ to cover the rest of the daily rate and the trophy fees I anticipate. So far I have not overshot the dollars held by Atchesons. Atchesonns hold the $$ until I release them after the post hunt accounting with the PH. The dollars remaun here in the states until the hunt is concluded. I feel protected if something goes wrong through no fault of mine and the safari company knows that the dollars are there. The safari company actually prefers this method. In this case HHK. I take enough cash for safari staff tips and incidentals. I use credit cards for a few incidentals like after hunt hotel stays.

I like this method ao well that I probably wouldn't book with a safari company that didn't use this type of service unless under very unusual circumstances such as much lower safari costs or species that I couldn't get any other way. One of the best reasons to use a proven booking agent. Consequently I couldn't vote in your poll because my option is listed.

465H&H

Steve,

We bank in the UK both on and offshore and also here in RSA but we don't bank in the USA.

I voted "YES" on the credit card payment! I think it is the best way to do business, especially in African hunting.

I have always setteled up with T/CKs but even with T/CKs in $500 amounts, one will get writer's cramp from signing all those T/CKs at the end of a decent Safari. The guy I usually hunt with has a Bank account in the town next to me only 8 miles away. The deposit is paid by personal check, and 60 days before the Safari begines the second half of the daily fees are paid by personal check as well. However, this still requires the carrying of a substancual amount of T/CKs if any thing exotic is on the list with some T-Fees being a lot of money to take care of in the field, and while traveling.

One could simply tell his C-card company the there wiil be a large transfer to a particular account in Africa in a certain month of the year you will be hunting. This will head off a problem of security with the card company.

I would still take T/CKs, with some exchanged to local money for tips, and purchases in out of the way villages, where banks are sometimes hundreds of miles away. The bush natives sometimes get screwed on the exchange rate when the convert to local money, or goods, so local money is better for them.

Happy SUN-DOWNER!

Or that the outfitter would pay 3-4% for the convenience of having thier money immediately available electronically.

Sorry, but if i just spent $7K, I personally don't want to feel like I'm being "nickeled and dimed" over a 200 CC service fee. Build that cost in up front and then offer a "Cash discount." That's a better way to market the concept IMO.

Personally, I don't like the CC idea... not so sure how secure satellite conversations are, and definitely don't want any of my CC numbers floating around -or above- Africa.

I usually don't settle up with my PH until I get back home (I use the same one), and we never really discuss payment at the close of the hunt. However, I've been in camp with other hunters nearby and know that his normal couse of business is conducted that way... payment in full, at the end of the hunt.

I've known my PH for about 10-years so I guess that's the difference.

Maybe we don't need 21st century technology, when 19th would do just fine... as the best scenario would be to simply move final paymnet (as close as could be projected) into an escrowed account prior to the hunt. Then both Outfitter & hunter know the money is there and both are "protected," and no one has to worry about carrying excessive amounts of cash or TCs.

It works well for buying houses... just an idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Many credit card companys are now adding an additional charge for the use of the card overseas. I have never had an outfitter in Africa that would not advance a reasonable about of credit, after all he still has your trophies.

I have seen several notices of "add on" fees by the credit card companies, in the last 6 months, for purchases in foreign exchange monies.

Calling the card company in advance is not an assurance they will accept the charge. I've seen it work both ways when they have been called. Plastic is sure handy, but not fool proof

At the end of my Safari I wrote a personal check. I paid the tips in a combination of US cash and Travelers Cheques.
I would not want to carry that much money even in Travelers Cheques.

I used Verisign for my guide service here in the USA and I was very plesed with it. I found that I often got a larger tip if the client could pay with a CC. The biggest advantage was that I could get deposits over the phone and if the client called a week later and canceled I would keep 15% instead just eating the lost oppurtunity. At shows I could accept bookings, without ever having to worry if the check was good, again if they back out I keep 15%. I also had clients extend trips by a few days when the fishing was good or I had an opening in hunting camp for the next week. I found the reasonable small fees to be more than offset by the benifits. Discount for cash? ie. unreported income to IRS, no thanks, I'd rather not go down that road. But if you want to chance it, it would be an option I guess. Did I charge extra for using the card, absolutely not and I would caution against doing so, you'll loose business, it will just piss the clients off.

Would I like to put my next safari on plastic? Yes, 100% if possible.

[QUOTE]Discount for cash? ie. unreported income to IRS, no thanks, [QUOTE]

That's not the implication.

Promote the price (inclusive of the CC fee) and non-CC orders receive a discount.

Rather than CC charges come at a premium.

I would like to pay for the full safari, including tips, with American Express. However, just as at home, I believe the merchant should pay for that service. I would not be willing to pay more.

I would like a credit card payment option as long as the banks don't play any hanky panky with the exchange rate.

For those who bank in the US or have USD accounts elsewhere there's no exchange rate involved as our prices are all in USD.

The nice thing about being very good friends with your P.H. is anything above and over what you brought in cash can be settled with a handshake,and your word.

quote:

I have seen several notices of "add on" fees by the credit card companies, in the last 6 months, for purchases in foreign exchange monies.

Calling the card company in advance is not an assurance they will accept the charge. I've seen it work both ways when they have been called. Plastic is sure handy, but not fool proof

I work for a credit card company here in the US (I know, just above IRS agent and used car salesman ). The fee African Hunter is talking about is NOT the same as the fee that Sharkari is talking about. I just want everyone to understand.

The 3-4% fee Shakari mentioned is the transaction fee. A portion of that goes to Visa/MC for sending it through, and the network provider (bank) also takes some. The % varies by client, based upon amount of sales, # of transactions/yr, etc.. As an example, Walmart here in the US pays little in fees because of the volume, while the mom and pop store will likely pay the 3-4%. AMEX charges even more than the 3-4% mentioned, which is why some merchants won't accept it.

As to the fees that African Hunter was talking about, I'd say check around to learn which company is cheapest. This will likely vary over time as the rate terms change. If you are getting miles/rewards for your purcahse, you may be ok with paying a small fee in order to get thousands of points/miles.

Brad

Snakelover,

If the client paid for his trophy fees by cc would they then be entitled to any kind of free insurance - and if so, what?

Honestly the CC route is extremely attractive for myself. I would much rather carry a wad of small bills for incidental tips then have several travelers checks. Plus when you get there if something steals your heart that you feel you must have I would rather have the CC to back me than a wad of travelers checks or lack of them.

I like the idea of a credit card facility, you dont have to use it but if a $1600 trophy animal walks out in front of you early in the safari you avoid having to get the claculator out to see if you have blown the hunt budget. Ok the transaction fee may be $48 but thats not going to the PH.
You can still pay the bulk of your fees with cash/travellers checks if you wish. In addition it stop the worry of having large sums of $$'s when a couple of border guards with AK47's want to look in your bags.

Mark H

quote:

If the client paid for his trophy fees by cc would they then be entitled to any kind of free insurance - and if so, what?

Steve - you did say free right???? No credit insurance is free. What the credit card option does provide the client though is the ability to dispute the charges if you don't get your stuff or if something happens.

For example, this last trip, one of the SAA reps took my return ticket (unbeknownst to me) and when I entered the Joberg airport for my return, they made me purchase another (one way) ticket as they don't do lost ticket/e tickets, then file a lost ticket claim and wait for them to credit me the refund after my orignal wasn't used. I simply placed that transaction in dispute (no fc assessed). What happens is the cc company won't pay the merchant (in this case CapOne wouldn't pay SAA) until the issue is resolved. As of today, I still haven't received my credit, nor has SAA been given their ticket payment.

The same thing could be done on hides/horns that you often times must prepay for shipping before leaving. If the stuff never shows and you dispute, then that transaction is held in "limbo" so to speak.

While that is not insurance, it is a bit of peace of mind that the hunter has some options, rather than paying in cash.

Brad

Credit card payment is primarily designed for those going into a (retail shopfront) where the proprieter is hooked up as a standard MERCHANT ACCOUNT holder enabling them to process all forms of popular credit cards electronically via Eftpos online.

Generally speaking credit cards are best for small amount payments and multiple transactions and where the propriotor pays a fee to the Bank for the facility, in other words no 4% add on fee to the actual transaction.

IMHO with hunters I still believe that the most economical and practical method is by telegraphic transfer from Bank account to Bank account. Travellers cheques are OK for paying some additioanl miscellaneos extra fees at site.

Most USA Banks from my clients experience seem to charge the hunter a fee of $25-$45 maximum to make a t/t. Sometimes dependant upon which intemediary bank the money goes through on route they might also charge a $15 fee which comes off at the destination Bank. So if the client actually sends $5000 only $4985 arrives in the Africa Bank account.

Most Banks in African countries also charge their account holder a forex fee of arounf $25 per transaction.

From my rough calculation then for a client to send $5000 / it will cost them $5045 maximum.

The Outfitter will then receive into his account after intemediary bank fee and forex fee an amount of $4960.

With the same $5000 amount being sent via credit card at say 4% that is $200 ////

That is why I still believe t/t is the way to go for ANY amounts in excess of say $1500

Peter

Steve,

What about paying with a personal check? HHK said I can pay any costs due at the end of the safari with a personal check (cheque).

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

HHK banks in the good ole USA.

I like the idea of a credit card option. Last year in RSA, I prob would have shot a few additional animals if this were available. Plus, I don't much like carrying large sums of cash or TC in other countries where you're a second class citizen. JMTC

I like the credit card option. I haven't been on safari, but I do take a lot of customers exotic hunting here in Texas, and it is always a hassle keeping up with the trophy fees. I now use the same ranch for my customer hunts so if he sees something he just has to have, and it is above the budget I have for the hunt, the owner will let me send him a check after the hunt.

I will pay by the means prescribed, and would appreciate acceptance of my credit card, and even my American Express card.

On the other hand, once I've paid, and proven that I do pay in full as and when due, I would expect and appreciate that my personal check would thereafter be accepted.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Why the upcharge to use a credit card? Retail prices are the same here whether cash, check or credit. Same thing for good over there as I always do my shopping on VISA. Your retailers do not charge extra either. Not in my experience.

Are you unaware that retailers pay 3-4% of each sale to bank card companies? While it isn't separated for us to see on the price tag, it certainly is figured into the retail price.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I will pay by the means prescribed, and would appreciate acceptance of my credit card, and even my American Express card.

On the other hand, once I've paid, and proven that I do pay in full as and when due, I would expect and appreciate that my personal check would thereafter be accepted.

MR-
I doubt your Mass. bank would readily accept a check written on a bank in in Zambia. Of course I doubt most bank tellers would even know where Zambia is!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Credit card compnaies charge from 0.75-4% of the amount of the transaction.

In certain retail situations, like here in Dubai with electronics, where the mark up margins are extremely small - 1-2% - the retailers always charge extra for credit card purchases, which I think is only fair.

In other businesses, where the margins are relatively large, they do absorb it, for teh sake of the convenience of the customers.

To be quite honest in the year 2005 with all the technology at our finger tips I TRULY am amazed that people are still using the ARCHAIC OUTDATED Cheque method of payment,

I thought especially in the USA you guys would have by now burnt the last cheque book and moved ahead to greater things OR do I need retraining in my modern day thinking.

Even here DOWNUNDER in the backblocks of NZ people think one is bordering on the insane when a cheque book is produced.

Come on guys lets get real and join the technology age, even when cash is produced in large amounts there is a dazed look on the face of the reciprient

-----------------------------------------

CHEQUES TO BE STUBBED OUT AFTER 350 YEARS
Signed and sealed By Anna Day

THE cheque - which we've used to pay our bills and settle accounts for more than 350 years - is on its last legs.

The latest figures suggest that soon, thanks to the advent of chip and PIN and direct debit, no one will be able to use the tired old excuse of "the cheque's in the post".

There were just over six million cheques issued each day in 2003 compared with 11 million in 1991 - while only one in six regular bills are now paid in that way, compared with one in three in 1995.

Now a mere six per cent of high-street shopping is paid for by cheque, with more than half by debit or credit card.

Some firms have even stopped accepting them as a form of payment.

Some branches of Pizza Hut and Texaco are refusing to take them because they say they are easier to forge.

And the British Retail Consortium thinks more shops will follow. A spokesperson said: "With chip and PIN being introduced, fraudsters will find it harder and harder to get away with using stolen cards.

"But cheques are still relatively easy to forge so some retailers are deciding against accepting them."

Sandra Quinn of UK payment clearing association Apacs also says the cheque system is open to abuse.

"The problem with them is that the fraudsters can cause havoc," she says. "It's much harder to see which have been used fraudulently and which haven't - on a credit card that's easy to see.

"As chip and PIN comes into play, plastic will be even safer, so more people will want to use it."

In 1990, more cheques were written to pay for goods and services than all other types of payments or cash withdrawals put together.

But by 2000, the payment picture had changed dramatically with non-cheque transactions outnumbering those made by cheques by four to one.

And the decrease isn't just a fraud issue - most people find it easier to keep a card wallet than an unwieldy chequebook in their bag with only one in 20 people keeping their chequebook on them at all times.

Also, they still take three working days to clear with most banks.

A trial by LloydsTSB - where customers could pay their cheque in and access the money on the same day - was discontinued because the customers didn't want the service.

The number of cheques used to get cash has fallen, too, dropping 64 per cent since 1993.

One of the most telling signs of this decline came earlier this year when one of Britain's leading cheque-book manufacturers, De La Rue, announced it was pulling out of the business because shoppers are using debit cards more and more.

Cheques were first used during the English Civil War (1642-1651) when the goldsmiths' safes were secure places for the deposit of jewels, bullion and coins.

People gave instructions on a piece of paper to each other which were then taken to the payer's goldsmith - of the type mentioned by the famous diarist Samuel Pepys - and the goods were then handed over.

These receipts were used not only for withdrawing deposits but also as evidence of ability to pay.

Cheques really came into general use in the latter part of the 19th century but guarantee cards were not introduced until the 60s.

Experts now say that in 10 years time the cheque will be almost obsolete - making up just six per cent of all non-cash payments.

Balla Balla,

I respect your view and promise not to ever write you any checks.



Of course that means I will need to find others who are willing to accept a check....