I want to take a model 70 for my PH in South Africa
He will handle the Import permit on his end, but, I need an export permit to make it legal. Can't find anyone with an export license to issue the permit!
Help please!

That would have to come from the US State Department. There are federally licensed exporter that you can go through that charge you for export. contact the state department and they can provide you with a list of licensed exporter.

Leo

Welcome to the forum.

you might like to do a search on the subject but my advice would be to forget it.

Firstly, you'd need an export licence from the US.

Secondly, you'll need an import licence from RSA and that'll probably take years rather than months.

Thirdly, assuming you got the paperwork sorted out, I think you'll find that you won't be allowed to bring it into RSA when you come....... Instead, they'll want you to send it by firearms courier and then have it stored at Customs until it's properly cleared by customs and entered onto the CFR records etc.

Forthly, the new owner in RSA will have to pay import tax and VAT on the rifle.

Some might be tempted to think about bring the rifle in as a temporary import and just leaving without it but this idea lays both the importer and the guy in RSA who keeps it open to VERY serious prosecution including (on the part of the US citizen) under the Lacey Act and possibly also under anti terrorism/firearm smuggling legislation.

In the good old days it was a doddle for a client to tip the PH by giving him a rifle but those days are long gone I'm afraid.

My advice if you want to give him a rifle is to just buy it in RSA and let him wait for his permit to be issued before collecting it.

+ 1
Its nearly impossible to bring a rifle in "legally" nowadays.

The PH is here and did some research on his end before he left. He is confident that if we can get the export permit that he can get the import permit from SA to make this a legal transaction. We did talk to a gentleman from the ATF and he said we need to find someone with an export license to issue the permit.
Personally i know nothing about this stuff and appreciate the input.

Leo

I almost guarantee it'll be cheaper, faster and considerably more convenient to simply buy one there.

If nothing else the courier and (RSA) handling and storage fees will be fairly high..... but all that said, if it can be done legally and you want to do it, then give it a try....... I'd certainly be interested to hear the result.

FWIW, even assuming they don't lose the first (or indeed second) application, RSA take at least 6 months to issue a firearms export permit and you can bet your life an import licence will take even longer....... and the reason I know that is because I'm trying to get my firearms out of RSA right now.

Leo,

You asked for advice and you have received an excellent response from folks who know. Forget about it, it's not worth the trouble and the risk involved. Your PH has no idea of what is required to do this legally from the USA.

you could fly to a country where you could buy the gun , and then fly on to south africa, however I do not know the lagalities of this...... or the expenses...

Hi Leo
I went through this trying to get a double in from a seller on this forum.
It is possible to do, but the right channels must be followed

The order in which things need to be done is as follows.
Export permit from US dealer with export license.
Import permit from South Africa. Takes some time to issue but can be expedited.Must be done by a gun deler
Import the rifle to registered gun dealer paying tax at customs and courier charges

If he flies in to SA with the rifle he is going to have to send it back to the gun dealer in the US to put on his stock before the process can even start.

I now specialise in firearm licensing and the laws surrounding them. If it is a special rifle then the effort is worth it, however a Mod 70 in the big calibers goes for around R 24 000 USD 3000 here so it may save you a lot of time and effort buying one here.

If you are set on going ahead with this then please let me know. I will be happy to quote on bringing the rifle in for you through some of my contacts here.

Please stress to the PH that he will be breaking the law if he gets it right to bring that rifle in to SA and it does not leave again with its registered owner as part of his luggage.

Kind regards
HQ

You should also bear in mind that RSA is awash with 2nd hand guns for alse at knockdown prices because of the new(ish) firearms laws which are an absolute stuff up and is forcing many owners to try to get rid of many of their firearms.

As an example, I bought a superb 1923 12 gauge SLE built by one of Scotland's finest gunsmiths for USD500 a while ago.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. He will probably end up looking for this gun or something else in SA. sounds like it would be a lot easier...

quote:

Originally posted by Leo Pfadt:
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. He will probably end up looking for this gun or something else in SA. sounds like it would be a lot easier...

+ 1 SERIOUSLY Ive tried

It's been several years ago but I personally sent rifles to 2 PH's in Zimbabwe legally. At that time you could get a one time exemption from the export license requirement. It must be approved thru both the State Department AND the Department of Defense. It is a defense act requirement that is the problem.It required much paperwork and quite a bit of phone conversation entailing the support of the Zimbabwean Ambassador to the US . The whole thing took several months. And the final upshot was one of the PH's got his rifle because he had gotten his paperwork on his end in to the Zimbabwean Government in time. The other did not and the Government confiscated the rifle and later sold it at auction. They would NOT return therifle to me even though I volunteered to pay the transport. I don't know whether this avenue still exists, but it was a once per person per lifetime exemption. The PH who did NOT get his rifle eventually got one from me but it was a custom ordered from Sabi in South Africa and that was an even longer wait to get the export document from South Africa. Money is a better deal.

Gentlemen
I have confirmed that any rifle left in South Africa, as a gift for the PH that has passed the validity date of the temporary import permit issued in the name of the foreign hunter is now an illegal weapon.
It is by law the duty of the individual in possession of such a gun to report it to the authorities and hand it in to be forfeited to the state and destroyed.
Failure to do so could result in a jail term of up to 15 years.
I strongly suggest that anyone finding themselves in this position heed the warning and clean up their house as it would be a terrible pity to be made an example of in our jails.

As a side note, if you do it the right way, you can most certainly give a gift of a rifle to a PH, it will however not be left with him when you leave; but rather a series of documents must be applied for whilst the rifle is in the US before it it sent to the dealer that will handle the transaction here in SA from the dealer in the US.
If anyone is unclear please let me know and or contact me via PM
Thanks
HQ