I'm not asking weither to tip or not or how much is appropriate. I'm curious about how you handle 2X1 versus 1X1.
ASSUMPTION - please use this assumption as the basis for your answer weither you agree with it or not- You would normally tip a PH $100 per day on a 1X1 dangerous game safari.
Question: you are hunting 2X1 for dangerous game. Do you each pony up $100 per day? Do you each contribute $50 per day? Do you do something inbetween?
Please, no arguements against tipping or stating "whatever you think is proper" If $100 per day is proper 1X1 what is proper 2X1?

Thanks
TerryR

you will be welcomed to go for $100 each but I say go for something between

I can only speak from a personal point of view, but for me, the norm, if there is such a thing, is that (working on your figures of US$100 pd for 1x1) the tip from each hunter would be somewhere between US$70 - US$100 per day each.

Hope that helps.

How about starting at $50 each and increase the tip by the same percentage as the discount for hunting two on one. Assuming a normal hunt with good effort of course.

So one saves a few hundred dollars by hunting 2x1, and ends up paying that back as extra tip!

Makes sense to some I suppose.

Terry

Given your assumption $75 each would be reasonable given that the PH does a good job.

Mark

What about observers?

Do you tip the PH for them too?

Thanks for the feedback.

Duckear
The only time that we had observers, I don't recall making any allowance for them in the PH's tip. We did have someone guide them on game drives while we hunted. I believe that they gave their guide a tip roughly equal to 10% of the observer daily rate, about $20 a day.

TerryR

I don't tip for Sadie as an observer but she just goes in the field with me each day. If the safari operator has arranged specific activities for the observers and provided a guide I would think the guide should be tipped.

Mark

I agree Mark. And maybe address the camp staff more equally.

Does the 2x1 tipping protocol discussed hold true if the second hunter is your wife (full participant) thus the tip for two comes from one pocket?

Mike,

I don't know that there is a real protocal but if your wife is shooting as any other 2x1 hunter I would think the tip should reflect that. The PH and crew still do the same amount of work regardless of what the relationship between the hunters is.

Mark

Looks like to me if you are hunting 2 on 1 taking turns shooting then 50% of each hunter's time would be spent as a observer so I would tip for one hunter.It would be fair to add 10% to that. If you want to add more tip give it to the poor guys who track and skin the game they work like dogs.

First and foemost a tip is a "GIFT" and a monotary value is not the question..You should tip according to the service and according to the amount your individual pocket book can afford. That is the understanding I have with all the companies that I book hunts for..

To answer your question, each hunter should tip as per his hunt, I would not discount my tips based on the 2x1 basis..If I could aford $100 and the hunt deserved $100 then I would do that, if not then less or perhaps somewhere in between..

Use your common since for tipping and remember that considering the cost of a safari these days the tip should not effect your financial status very much at all....

Just some thoughts on the subject and not written in stone.

I agree with my collegue Shakari. Between $75 - $100 a day per hunter (to the PH) for a good performance is very much in line & greatly appreciated!! Please realize that sometimes these 2x1 safaris can be a bit more pressure on the PH.... somewhat of a balancing act; trying two make sure both hunters are happy & obtain all their trophies. Sometimes jelousy (or other problems) happen between the two friends (I had this happened just last year where I had to play referee). When the work load / responsibility is incresed, shouldn't the tip reflect that? I think the majority of PH's will tell you that a 1x1 safari is generally somewhat more enjoyable/preferable to him then a 2x1 hunt; although there are exceptions...

No, normally the non-hunting observer does not tip the PH; but I have had that happen on a couple occasions. The hunter's buddy insisted on giving me a tip. I tried to refuse, but ended up accepting & thanking him.

quote:

Originally posted by 875x:
Looks like to me if you are hunting 2 on 1 taking turns shooting then 50% of each hunter's time would be spent as a observer so I would tip for one hunter.It would be fair to add 10% to that. If you want to add more tip give it to the poor guys who track and skin the game they work like dogs.

On paper your "50% observer" theory looks ok, but let me ask: if you and your hunting companion shot 4 trophy buffalo between you; and also 2 impala, 2 zebra etc.,etc. (in other words double the trophies) you do not feel that your PH earned & deserves double the tip?? "One tip" or Only "10%"? After all, The PH finds your game, judges, tracks, follows up, helps skinning & loading, supervises caping, tags & measures trophies, a good host & looks after your every need (not just your friend)etc. So you say he should only get one hunter's tip, or maybe 10 bucks per day from the second hunter "to be Fair" (when he's done perhaps twice the work)??
But a tip is a tip....leave what you think is fair.

I.M.O: If your PH was not also "working like a dog" trying to provide you with a great safari...I'd advise you to find a better one! After all, he owes it to you to work very hard.

I would have to agree with Ray a tip is a gift.
As for the trackers I was baseing that on when we came in for the day the Ph were up haveing drinks and chating. The trackers were skinning the animals from that day so looks like to me they had it pretty tough.

875x: I agree with you bwana....all of the camp staff has a very hard life & tough job!!! I always tell clients not to worry about me; but please tip the staff well. But hopefully you see my point: The (often underpaid) PH also has a hard job; made a bit harder perhaps when there's twice as many trophies to get within the same alotted time. Especially true when you take into consideration that many hunters (sadly) gauge the entire success of their safari solely by how many record book animals they have taken!

The camp staff have the best paying jobs in the country. They get unlimited meat and a safe place to sleep at night. Their laundry is done daily and if they have family troubles the PH helps them out. How many wives does a good tracker usually have? Answer several. Not saying that they don't deserve a tip but they don't work that hard and the rewards should be judged on what the average worker in their country makes. Most bush areas have 95% unemployment.

TANZ-PH I agree with on the ph I dont think I would care for the job. I wouldnt mind the tracking around the country side though.
As for the trackers having several wives all the more reason to tip them so they can buy some strong drink. I would need it with several wifes and I dont drink.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by 875x:
Looks like to me if you are hunting 2 on 1 taking turns shooting then 50% of each hunter's time would be spent as a observer so I would tip for one hunter.It would be fair to add 10% to that. If you want to add more tip give it to the poor guys who track and skin the game they work like dogs.

On paper your "50% observer" theory looks ok, but let me ask: if you and your hunting companion shot 4 trophy buffalo between you; and also 2 impala, 2 zebra etc.,etc. (in other words double the trophies) you do not feel that your PH earned & deserves double the tip?? "One tip" or Only "10%"? After all, The PH finds your game, judges, tracks, follows up, helps skinning & loading, supervises caping, tags & measures trophies, a good host & looks after your every need (not just your friend)etc. So you say he should only get one hunter's tip, or maybe 10 bucks per day from the second hunter "to be Fair" (when he's done perhaps twice the work)??
But a tip is a tip....leave what you think is fair.

I.M.O: If your PH was not also "working like a dog" trying to provide you with a great safari...I'd advise you to find a better one! After all, he owes it to you to work very hard.

A PH can only do so much work in a day, so to imply that he is doing double the work for two hunters is bullshit!

Luck plays the main part of what animal gets shot, not the ability of the PH. One can be the very best PH in the whole world, and if there are no good trophies to be found, I am sure he won't be able to produce any.

Anyway, him and all his camp staff are being PAID to to this job, whether 1x1 or 2x1 - it has been taken care off in the pricing of the hunt!

I am starting to get the impression that some safari operators use the tips as payments for their staff! Which is totally wrong!

Is this why so many operators now include the following in their quotes "Tips are not included"?

To make sure you know that you are EXPECTED to tip?

Are we getting to the stage where this might be added to your bill - as in restaurants?

I can assure you that I will NOT be hunting with any company that does this.

Ray had the best answer on this subject. Tip as much or as little as you see fit.

And remember the most important part of this. TIP means it is YOUR choice to give.

What I also suggest is take into consideration the WHOLE experience of the safari, not just the animals you have been able to shoot.

I have heard stories of hunts from camps that were so badly run, I would not just not leave a tip, but I would make life as miserable for that company as I possibly can!

On the other hand, every hunt I have been on, where everything is run so well, one feels he is short changing them, no matter how much one leaves as a tip.

And that is how it really should be.

The hunter goes home with great memories, and those which he has hunted with look forward to seeing him again.

"TIP" is an acronym for the phrase "To Insure Promptness". While an appropriate concept in the restaurant industry, the concept itself seems to have taken on a whole new meaning. Today it appears that a TIP is additional value provided for a normal level of service that is not extraordinary in any way. Or, in other words, hiding the true total costs by adding an additional expense category. A TIP has lost its meaning as something that is "earned", and is now a payment that is "expected" for a standard or normal level of service.

Most PH's I have talked to and most of those that post here on AR pride themselves on the extraordinary service they deliver for every client. So if extraordinary is the base standard, what merits additional compensation for efforts over and above that level?

The point I am leading to is not that PH's don't deserve to be recognized financially for their services. The point I am making is that the pricing for those services should be reflected in their daily rates and not be dependent as a pricing variable. In other true "professions", there is one charge for services. Professional services are not dependent on TIPS, but reflect the experience level and skill of the service provider. A doctor who has successfully transplanted 1000 hearts charges a higher rate than a first year internist.

To the extent the practice continues in the safari busines, however, I would submit that a TIP ("to insure promptness") is not an appropriate term for the industry. It invites comparisons of PH's to waiters and busboys, which I would think would be rather condescending to our professional hunters. Perhaps something along the lines of, "TO INSURE TROPHIES" may be a better fit. And I would dare say, I believe that most PH's would willingly embrace a big "attaboy" of that nature at the end of the safari.

Saaed wrote

quote:

The hunter goes home with great memories, and those which he has hunted with look forward to seeing him again.

Thats why we go year after year to africa. IMO

Seloushunter

Yet another thread on tipping. The fact that these appear with such frequency on AR is a reflection of how conflicted we are about this. I think, Jim, that you are spot on here. "TIP" seems appropriate for camp staff. The "P" in "PH" stands for professional. Professionals should be well compensated. As a physician, I understand this. I expect to be well paid, and when not working for the government I am. I don't expect a tip, but will sometimes get a small gift as an acknowledgement from a grateful patient. Tipping would be rude.
That being said, I have two observations. 1. In our culture, money is an acceptable way of expressing gratitude, even if not the ideal way. I have always felt gratitude as well as admiration for my PH.
2. The tip truly has morphed into another expense category as Jim suggests. I'm not happy about this, but have to live with it. The guy has to make a living.

After a few trips, I've kind of settled into a comfort level. The difference between a small, halfway decent and generous tip usually doesn't represent much of a cost difference on a trip that is already costing north of $20,000. Maybe way north.

What still makes me uncomfortable is handling this situation when my PH is also the operator. Traditionally, tipping an owner was considered an insult, at least in a restaurant. The last two trips, I was able to make a gift of 470 handloads, which he liked very much. Very expensive over there. Next time I'll be hunting with an operator who is not yet a friend, and I'll have to cross this bridge again. How do you guys handle this?

Have I wandered away from the original topic far enough yet?

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
Please, no arguments against tipping or stating "whatever you think is proper"

How about an argument against 2 x 1 ?

I have been on both 2 x 1 and 1 x 1 hunts and IMO 1 x 1 is much better. Better for the hunter and better for the PH. If two hunters go on a hunt it is better to go 1 x 1 with two guides. For very little extra money you get the PH’s full attention and each PH only has to produce half the trophies. Each guide gets HIS FULL TIP and each hunter gets a better trophy selection.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajim:

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
Please, no arguments against tipping or stating "whatever you think is proper"

How about an argument against 2 x 1 ?

I have been on both 2 x 1 and 1 x 1 hunts and IMO 1 x 1 is much better. Better for the hunter and better for the PH. If two hunters go on a hunt it is better to go 1 x 1 with two guides. For very little extra money you get the PH’s full attention and each PH only has to produce half the trophies. Each guide gets HIS FULL TIP and each hunter gets a better trophy selection.

I prefer 1x2 - 1 client, 2 PHs!

This way one gets twice the advice, twice the arguments, twice the confusion, and above all, many times more fun

The very limited amount of hunting I did with two PHs was a good time. Since it was a case of his client being finished he asked to come along for the fun of it. The way I handled the tip for the second PH was to mail him a set of custom .425 Westley Richards dies that I knew he needed.

Again a 2x1 is a great way to hunt with friends and family for instance...I have hunted in Safari camps with Saeed and 8 of his friends on several ocassions and never had more fun. I have hunted with my friends and enjoyed every minute of it...I feel sorry for those who put shooting a trophy ahead of enjoying the hunt with friends and family, but to each his own and if the hunter is a dyed in the wool trophy hunter with a tape in his left hand all day long then the 1x1 is for him and rightly so..

The bottom line is your paying for your hunt, and that choice is yours and nobody elses and what any of us tell you is nothing more than jabber!

While my first hunt in Arica, Namibia specifically, will occur next June, I've hunted in many other countries. My hunting partner and I have hunted both 1x1 and 2x1. We've found more fun with 2x1. Back to topic. because we hunt 2x1 doesn't mean we cut what we consider a fair tip. Both of us tip what we consider a fair amount. Here again, we figure in general service, diligence during the hunt, and the fun we've had. There have been several who would consider us cheap. We considered them below level in capability.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajim:

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
Please, no arguments against tipping or stating "whatever you think is proper"

How about an argument against 2 x 1 ?

I have been on both 2 x 1 and 1 x 1 hunts and IMO 1 x 1 is much better. Better for the hunter and better for the PH. If two hunters go on a hunt it is better to go 1 x 1 with two guides. For very little extra money you get the PH’s full attention and each PH only has to produce half the trophies. Each guide gets HIS FULL TIP and each hunter gets a better trophy selection.

I prefer 1x2 - 1 client, 2 PHs!

This way one gets twice the advice, twice the arguments, twice the confusion, and above all, many times more fun

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
I'm not asking weither to tip or not or how much is appropriate. I'm curious about how you handle 2X1 versus 1X1.
ASSUMPTION - please use this assumption as the basis for your answer weither you agree with it or not- You would normally tip a PH $100 per day on a 1X1 dangerous game safari.
Question: you are hunting 2X1 for dangerous game. Do you each pony up $100 per day? Do you each contribute $50 per day? Do you do something inbetween?
Please, no arguements against tipping or stating "whatever you think is proper" If $100 per day is proper 1X1 what is proper 2X1?

Thanks
TerryR

Hmmmm.......... Lets say I have an expensive dinner by myself and the tip if properly calculated (using whatever percentage you want) is $100. But if I have another meal with the overall same initial cost, but I am joined by a colleague then my tip should increase 75-100%. I am missing something. However, I would never consider hunting 2x1 anyway. Go with your hunting buddies, but go your own seperate and meet up at the camp at dark!