We have been having a few interesting debates on "hunting" from helicopters on the Australian and NZ hunting forum.

Basically it is quite common practice in the mountains of New Zealand to shoot a premier game animal like a chamois or tahr from the open door of a chopper. Then land to take photographs, minus the helicopter in the pics of course. It has been claimed up to 50% of tahr are shot from the air.

Or the animal is spotted from the air, and the "hunter" is dropped off just behind a ridge, so he can peek over and take his shot. Saves hours and days of walking and hunting.

An unfortunate tourist only recently lost his life doing this when he fell down a cliff when jumping off the chopper to shoot the spotted chamois.

Anyway this is an African hunting forum.

My questions:

Is there anywhere in Africa where it is OK to shoot game animals from a flying helicopter?

How much would you value say a 60 inch kudu as a trophy if it was shot from the air?

What about a Zambezi elephant? Would a tuskless cow elephant hunt be a good idea if the hunter could spot the tuskless, and then shoot it from the chopper flying above?

What if it was the only means for an unfit hunter to find a tuskless? Spotting by chopper, then landed a few hundred metres away so the fellow could sneak it to shoot it?

***

No doubt this is going to be a controversial thread, but hopefully not accompanied by personal abuse. I can say I have been shocked by the support for "hunting by helicopter" in New Zealand. I wonder if the chase for the almightly grand slams means fair chase is dead.

NitroX

This is the unfortunate accident you mention

Peter
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N.H. deer hunter dies in fall from New Zealand alps
May 23, 2006

WELLINGTON, New Zealand --A New Hampshire man on a deer hunting expedition died after falling almost 1,000 feet down a rocky slope on New Zealand's Southern Alps, police said Tuesday.

Clifford Wayne Senter, 57, of Plaistow, had just been set down by a helicopter on a ridge in the Mount Aspiring National Park on South Island on Monday when he lost his footing and fell, said Sgt. Aaron Nicholson of the Wanaka Search and Rescue organization.

Senter had been in New Zealand for a week with his wife and two friends on a hunting vacation, Nicholson said. He was hunting chamois from a helicopter with a local guide and a friend when the accident occurred.

The incident was likely to be investigated by a coroner and New Zealand's Civil Aviation Authority, he said.
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In referance to your question ...

I dont think (commercial chopper hunting) is a goer in Southern Africa ...

Of course they use choppers for commercial animal darting and sometimes for rouge culling, and for game counts and game capture driving ...

BUT I dont know of any (legal bona fide hunting outfitter) whom would ever contemplate that option for commercial hunting.

I dont belive it is legal anywhere in Southern Africa

Cheers, Peter

Peter

Yes that is the tragic accident I referred to.

***

Yes, game capture by chopper does go on. I was lucky enough to go on several flights as a passenger/spotter with Viv Bristow in 1994 in Southern Zimbabwe chasing zebra, wildebeest etc into large capture yards.

I do not know of any place in Africa where shooting from a chopper to takle trophy animals are permitted. Choppers are used to cull animals or to capture animals.

What value will a trophy shot from a helicopter? For me zero value. Hunting has a lot to do with anticipation, excitement and danger involved. There is no chalenge to "hunt" a animal from a chopper, except on your purse.

P4eople "hunting" read killing animals like this is trophy collectors not hunters

If a person is not fit enough to undertake a specific hunt, he should either get in shape or do not hunt. genuine physical disabilities are a different story, but their are other ways to help a disabled hunter to get his trophies.

Imagine hunting a Elephant without any chance of danger or without feeling its massive presence before you fire you rifle, there cannot be any satistaction in a chopper hunt.

Not this ...

quote:

Originally posted by RM007:

But maybe this ...

quote:

***

Jaco

Absolutely. The hunt is the point, the trophy collection at the end is for the memories.

I think the thrill of shooting an elephant from a chopper would be equivalent to shooting on a video game. Similar for a stag or chamois elsewhere.

quote:

An unfortunate tourist only recently lost his life doing this when he fell down a cliff when jumping off the chopper to shoot the spotted chamois.

"Unfortunate"? I have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. If he fell during a sightseeing tour, taking pictures, etc, yeah. But not in this situation.

quote:

How much would you value say a 60 inch kudu as a trophy if it was shot from the air?

None.

Same as any animal, of any size, doesn't matter. None.

quote:

(From another post) A New Hampshire man on a deer hunting expedition died after falling

He wasn't on a "deer hunting excursion". He was on a shooting or killing trip, but certainly not hunting.

I can just see him now, when he got back to NH, telling his country club/yacht club buddies... "There I was, 10,000 feet up a ridge, out of breath after the grueling climb, blah, blah, blah".

Guys like this don't HUNT, they just add "specimens" to their "trophy list", and another meaningless head on the wall.

Dart hunts for rhino or "Green" hunts are sometimes conducted from helicopters. I've seen it. Nobody really likes it except maybe the shooter but it is done.

Mark

Cold Bore where did your quote that he jumped off the chopper to shoot the Chamois come form. I have read the posts on the NZ board and I did not read anything like that. On one report said they had spotted Chamois at the head of a valley and the pilot was dropping the hunter off. It said nothing about jumping off and shooting. Other posters speculated this and hunters have done this. I saw on NW Hunter show the guy jumped from the chopper on to a approx. 12" ledge and then got the Chamois or Tahr, I don't remember which. If some one wants to jump from a chopper onto a 12" ledge and shoot an animial more power to him or her. Call it what you want but that takes Balls! In addition you are cold I guess anyone gored by a Buffalo receives the same degree of symphathy as Hell he or she was asking for it placing themselves in such a position etc etc!

Shooting a trophy animal from a helicopter? I can't think of any thing more aborhent than that. Even hunting in Texas on high fenced property is more sporting than that.

465H&H

I think that we should export some A-10's over to RSA and use them for hunting.

After all you should ALWAYS use enough gun when hunting in Africa.

And best of all the main gun is a multiple barreled weapon, screw a double when you can have a 5 or 6 barreled gun that is also a positive feed action.

Not only that but the A-10 is fully armored in case you get charged by a wounded DG critter. Effective range is 5 miles so even the "why don't you just use a .50 BMG" crowd can feel included in this sporting adventure.

Hell yes shooting from a helicopter is a great idea. Stand by for the next greatest thing in sport hunting. The artillery barrage!

I'm thinking an M-1 Abrams would be a fantastic vehicle for springbok hunting. You could gun down hundreds of the little bastards with the cannon and anything that survives the blast you could smoke with the coaxial 7.62 machine gun. Just thin about the sport there why get closer when you can engage multiple springbok at 5 + miles. What a buch of idiots we are. Why use shoulder fire weapon with all this technology available?

And to think some people want to use a mere .45-70 as a DG round! What were they thinking?

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Cold Bore where did your quote that he jumped off the chopper to shoot the Chamois come form.

The first two quotes are from NitroX's first post on here (look at the fourth paragraph), the last quote is from Balla Balla's post on this thread as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
In addition you are cold I guess anyone gored by a Buffalo receives the same degree of symphathy as Hell he or she was asking for it placing themselves in such a position etc etc!

What?

Where's the comparison in that? Hardly the same....

Although I have been to Africa 11 times, I have never seen or heard of hunting from a chopper. However,I did witness an interesting use of a chopper.

One of our party wounded a massive buffalo. Lots of blood. They followed it a very long way and could not find it. My friend chartered a chopper the next day to fly around and look for it and sure enough found it dead.

Cold Bore that was Nitro's own take the papers never said he jumped off to shoot. My point about the buffalo was anytime some one dies no matter the reason (gang bangs excepted) one should be sympathetic,

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Cold Bore that was Nitro's own take the papers never said he jumped off to shoot.

OK, but where did you get the "paper quote" part?

I was just copying what was in the post.

I never said anything about the newspaper...

I have done a lot of shooting from a helicopter[not game] and it is a lot of fun.

I would like to shoot a few pigs from a chopper, I would not call it hunting.

I would not want to shoot any trophy animal from a chopper.

I've shot thousands of rounds from a chopper those 50 Cals are sweet

quote:

Originally posted by Chugach:
I've shot thousands of rounds from a chopper those 50 Cals are sweet

Crawl back in your hole, Terrence.

My opinion is culling is one thing, sort of like aerial target shooting at moving targets. However sporting hunting involves a certain assumption of fair chase and assumption of some chance for a game animal to escape a hunter.

quote:

An unfortunate tourist only recently lost his life doing this when he fell down a cliff when jumping off the chopper to shoot the spotted chamois.

This was from my first post starting the thread.

The newspaper article mentions the party had spotted the chamois from the chopper and the fatal accident happened when one of the party on exiting the chopper slipped and fell down a cliff.

It is now very common practice in New Zealand to spot game from a chopper and either shoot from the helicopter, or land as close as possible, say behind a near ridge, exit and shoot soon after. Then in almost all cases, in my opinion, fail to mention the use of the chopper in hunting stories, or photos.

About 50% of tahr trophies are allegedy shot from the actual chopper these days per a report.

This is legal in New Zealand, so no illegality is alleged.

I posted the questions in relation to African hunting as we have had numerous debates over time on PHs such as Mark Sullivan, shooting from a bakkie, over a waterhole, etc etc. I have found it unbelievable the support for the incredible un-sporting practice of shooting from a chopper or using one to locate game on the Aust/NZ hunting forum.

I couldn't imagine doing the same in Africa as a sporting hunt, yet many of the "justifications" could also be used. One justification claimed was "lack of fitness" to hunt a mountain. Imagine claiming, I need to locate my tuskless cow in Augst using a chopper as I am too fat ( I still am at the moment BTW), and maybe shoot it from the air as well, while we are at it!

Unbelievable!

The new article that was referred to.

I believe the man's death was unfortunate and a loss to his family and friends. However the article did illustrate the issue, and also the high degree of risk in being landed in an un-safe place, rather than a safer location which might require some walking/climbing and hunting.

I would also say along with Africa, New Zealand is probably another of the world's hunting paradises.

quote:

Body of NZ chopper victim recovered

May 23, 2006 - 3:29PM

Police have retrieved the body of an American tourist who fell 300 metres to his death shortly after stepping out of a helicopter in the Southern Alps on Monday afternoon.

Clifford Wayne Senter, 57, of New Hampshire, was killed when he tripped and fell down a steep bluff while chamois hunting in the Albert Burn area near Lois Peak in the Mount Aspiring National Park.

Wanaka Search and Rescue coordinator, Sergeant Aaron Nicholson, said Senter had been in New Zealand for the past week on a hunting holiday, with his wife and two friends.

They had intended to leave New Zealand on Tuesday to continue their holiday in Australia.

Senter, his friend and a local Wanaka hunting guide had left Wanaka by helicopter about 2.30pm on Monday.

They spotted chamois in the head of the valley, and the helicopter pilot landed on a small flat outcrop.

However, when Senter stepped out of the machine, he slipped on the wet ground and started to slide down the slope with no chance of holding his fall.

Low cloud and fog prevented a search and rescue team from reaching him on Monday night.

A recovery team was deployed first thing on Tuesday and located Senter at the base of the bluff in the afternoon.

It was clear that the fall was not survivable as he had sustained very serious head and body injuries, Nicholson said.

A post mortem examination would be carried out at the Dunedin Mortuary.

© 2006 AAP

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by Chugach:
I've shot thousands of rounds from a chopper those 50 Cals are sweet

Crawl back in your hole, Terrence.

I don't know whom you are troll but and I couldn't care less what your F@#$ing beef is with Terrence. But get your facts straight next time asshole.

Give us the details on your chopper exploits, Killer. You never struck me as the military type.

Is there an ignore button on this site? What kind of an asshole goes out of their way to incite an argument with someone they don't know?

For heaven's sake Terrence, it's Memorial Day Weekend. I want to honor all who have served. Give us some details on your door-gunner days.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Give us the details on your chopper exploits, Killer.