I WAS IN TANZANIA LAST YEAR HUNTING LIONS. AFTER GETTING A VERY NICE LION I LET ALL THE GUYS SHOOT MY 416 AND GAVE THEM A BULLET.ONE YEAR LATER WHILE I AM OUT OF TOWN MY WIFE GETS A CALL AT FROM ONE OF THE GUYS LOOKING FOR ME AND HE CALLS BACK AT LEAST 4 TIMES TILL I GET BACK. AFTER ALOT OF COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS HE GETS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS AND E-MAILS ME. SEEMS HE GOT CAUGHT WITH THE BULLET AND ARRESTED,LOST HIS JOB AND COULD BE PUT IN JAIL FOR YEARS JUST FOR HAVING THIS ONE BULLET. ALL HE WANTS IS A LETTER STATING THAT I GAVE HIM THE BULLET ,WHICH I E-MAILED BACK AND A FRIEND WHO WAS THERE IS GOING TO ALSO WRITE ONE SAYING HE SAW ME GIVE HIM IT. MY FIRST QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING ? SECOND IS THERE ANY THING ELSE I SHOULD DO TO HELP.IT ALSO GIVES ME THE CHANCE TO SAY THIS IS WHY WE ALL NEED TO BELONG TO N.R.A. ,SAFARI CLUB OR SOME GROUP THAT FIGHTS FOR GUN RIGHTS.

I won't be leaving any more of those again! Thanks for the warning.

Bullet or cartridge?

A cartridge for a gun they don't own...I can see.

A simple bullet...not so much. But then again, this is africa.

That's why I leave clothes, hats and USD...

Jeff

Are you sure this guy isn't yanking your chain?

I lived and worked in Jamaica for over 2 years and was repeatedly warned by my friends that even an empty casing or spent bullet could get me jail time. Jamaica has every anti-gun pol's dream laws already in place. The thugs are all well armed. I tried for nearly the entire time I was there to get a license for my shotgun, to hunt doves, etc. Repeatedly solicited by the police to "help it along". I estimate it would cost me over $1500 to bribe everyone that had their hand out. I finally quit the Jamaican job and left the country because I was so sick of not having the ability to pursue the shooting sports. I thank God I live in America!

Every African country has different laws, but draconian gun laws seem the order of the day throughout most of the continent.

I'd have loved to leave guns and/or cartridges to certain of my African friends over the years, but the risk to them, and to me, of violating one or more of their laws is simply too great. It's a little like the US laws against carrying any sort of undeclared African animal products into the country -- horns found in the bush, elephant hair bracelets, etc. It's just one of those areas of the law that you don't want to get sloppy with.

I don't have any advice about this situation, except that I would be concerned that formal acknowledgement of your "gift" just might open you up to all kinds of legal culpability, whether or not you were ignorant of the legal ramifications going in. I would be careful - you could be hurting yourself a lot while not helping your friend even a bit, maybe even making his life more miserable, in the process.

I was in Mexico a few years ago hunting ducks. My outfitter was very clear.."make sure you have no empty or loaded ammo rifle, shotgun, rimfire, in your possession,packs,gear bags etc" we used the outfitters shotguns. Apparently finding such "contraband" could lead to significant hassle if not incarceration.

quote:

Originally posted by tom ferry:
I WAS IN TANZANIA LAST YEAR HUNTING LIONS. AFTER GETTING A VERY NICE LION I LET ALL THE GUYS SHOOT MY 416 AND GAVE THEM A BULLET.ONE YEAR LATER WHILE I AM OUT OF TOWN MY WIFE GETS A CALL AT FROM ONE OF THE GUYS LOOKING FOR ME AND HE CALLS BACK AT LEAST 4 TIMES TILL I GET BACK. AFTER ALOT OF COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS HE GETS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS AND E-MAILS ME. SEEMS HE GOT CAUGHT WITH THE BULLET AND ARRESTED,LOST HIS JOB AND COULD BE PUT IN JAIL FOR YEARS JUST FOR HAVING THIS ONE BULLET. ALL HE WANTS IS A LETTER STATING THAT I GAVE HIM THE BULLET ,WHICH I E-MAILED BACK AND A FRIEND WHO WAS THERE IS GOING TO ALSO WRITE ONE SAYING HE SAW ME GIVE HIM IT. MY FIRST QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING ? SECOND IS THERE ANY THING ELSE I SHOULD DO TO HELP.IT ALSO GIVES ME THE CHANCE TO SAY THIS IS WHY WE ALL NEED TO BELONG TO N.R.A. ,SAFARI CLUB OR SOME GROUP THAT FIGHTS FOR GUN RIGHTS.

Tom:

To be found in possession of unlicensed firearms and/or ammunition of any caliber in Tanzania can land a person in hot
water, VERY hot water.(Prescribed penalty is 30yrs in the can !)
Please avoid giving live rounds away as gifts - if the caliber is current (375 or 458) it will probably be sold or used
for poaching activities so, if you happen to be hunting with any of these two calibers, keep a daily count of your ammo

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Are you sure this guy isn't yanking your chain?

Sadly he is most likely not "yanking chains", as kibokolambogo said, here in Tanzania firearms and ammo are taken very seriously. Which has been a difficult adjustment for a Texas boy like myself.

quote:

I WAS IN TANZANIA LAST YEAR HUNTING LIONS. AFTER GETTING A VERY NICE LION I LET ALL THE GUYS SHOOT MY 416 AND GAVE THEM A BULLET.ONE YEAR LATER WHILE I AM OUT OF TOWN MY WIFE GETS A CALL AT FROM ONE OF THE GUYS LOOKING FOR ME AND HE CALLS BACK AT LEAST 4 TIMES TILL I GET BACK. AFTER ALOT OF COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS HE GETS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS AND E-MAILS ME. SEEMS HE GOT CAUGHT WITH THE BULLET AND ARRESTED,LOST HIS JOB AND COULD BE PUT IN JAIL FOR YEARS JUST FOR HAVING THIS ONE BULLET. ALL HE WANTS IS A LETTER STATING THAT I GAVE HIM THE BULLET ,WHICH I E-MAILED BACK AND A FRIEND WHO WAS THERE IS GOING TO ALSO WRITE ONE SAYING HE SAW ME GIVE HIM IT. MY FIRST QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING ? SECOND IS THERE ANY THING ELSE I SHOULD DO TO HELP.IT ALSO GIVES ME THE CHANCE TO SAY THIS IS WHY WE ALL NEED TO BELONG TO N.R.A. ,SAFARI CLUB OR SOME GROUP THAT FIGHTS FOR GUN RIGHTS

...and he didnt ask for money to help ?!

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:

quote:

I WAS IN TANZANIA LAST YEAR HUNTING LIONS. AFTER GETTING A VERY NICE LION I LET ALL THE GUYS SHOOT MY 416 AND GAVE THEM A BULLET.ONE YEAR LATER WHILE I AM OUT OF TOWN MY WIFE GETS A CALL AT FROM ONE OF THE GUYS LOOKING FOR ME AND HE CALLS BACK AT LEAST 4 TIMES TILL I GET BACK. AFTER ALOT OF COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS HE GETS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS AND E-MAILS ME. SEEMS HE GOT CAUGHT WITH THE BULLET AND ARRESTED,LOST HIS JOB AND COULD BE PUT IN JAIL FOR YEARS JUST FOR HAVING THIS ONE BULLET. ALL HE WANTS IS A LETTER STATING THAT I GAVE HIM THE BULLET ,WHICH I E-MAILED BACK AND A FRIEND WHO WAS THERE IS GOING TO ALSO WRITE ONE SAYING HE SAW ME GIVE HIM IT. MY FIRST QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING ? SECOND IS THERE ANY THING ELSE I SHOULD DO TO HELP.IT ALSO GIVES ME THE CHANCE TO SAY THIS IS WHY WE ALL NEED TO BELONG TO N.R.A. ,SAFARI CLUB OR SOME GROUP THAT FIGHTS FOR GUN RIGHTS

...and he didnt ask for money to help ?!

Seloushunter

Seloushunter:

First bit of evidence to corroborate his story is the letter.
Financial assistance in getting him off the hook will probably follow if the "fine" is
beyond his economic capabilities.

It isn't just Africa: here, on St. Thomas, possession of ammunition, alone, is a violation of our laws with each round being a separate offence.

In the late 90's I was hunting in Botswana and one of the favorite trackers had just gotten out of jail for possesion of a rifle magazine. He had planned to use the metal for something other than a firearm, but the magazine was considered an article of war and he spent 18 months behind bars. I can't imagine that was a pleasant experience. Leave clothes and money. Even a folding knife can be a problem in some places.

Yes, in Tanzania, please NEVER give away cartridges to someone who does not have permit. TZ safari companies have clients count their unused cartridges at safari's end. (I radio the bullet count to the office to put on the paperwork). The authorities want to have record of how many rounds you brought in & are taking out of the country.

I usually try to make some effort to pick up mine & my clients spent shells casings whenever possible. If found, these can be, (and often are) reloaded by poachers.

in most cases, even game scout should not be given any ammo. some may be inclined to poach with extra spare rounds.

For the record I did give the guy a tip and some hats ect. He does not seem to be wanting anything else. I have been to africa several times and when I got something like a lion ele.buffalow or ect, at the end of the hunt we usually let the guys shoot the gun and gave them the empty round and sometimes to the game scout and the head guys a maybe a live round. I knew in south africa that you couldnt leave live rounds but I didnt know about Tanzania .

I don't know what the current laws are in Zimbabwe but in the early 90's I gave a tracker a shell holder with 10 465 H&H rounds in it to carry for me, primarily because he got such a kick out of carrying them. The PH told me that if the police found him with them he would end up in jail.

465H&H

In Tanzania, the possession of a loaded or a live round of ammunition without a license is a real NO-NO!.
In the past everyone in camp liked getting an empty fired 505 Gibbs case.
Most were turned into flutes overnight.
Sincerely,

I thank God every day I live in USA, Oboma aside. Hell I heard on the news this morning he is preparing himself to have only one term, maybe the Gods have returned to the side of sanity.

Well the second part of the tell now comes in . Seems he now wants money . Guess it was a scam as some have said. live and learn.

I guess Will nailed it, but this is common. If you leave contact info with locals I have found that you are likely(50%) to receive a plea for cash. Keep in mind that some of these people work 60 hours a week and make $300 a year.

I would like to know how much he is trying to get out of you.

It's not Africa related, but last year a Frenchman who shoots regularly at his club had one spent .45 ACP case at the bottom of his coat pocket when he went with his wife as a tourist to India. Last I heard he was out of jail on bail but unable to leave India until he is tried.

Moral of the story is: CLEAN OUT YOUR POCKETS BEFORE YOU GET ON THE PLANE! Sometimes small brass ends up in places you never expect it.

Nobody likes to be hustled,BUT--

What if this guy is looking at a couple of years in jail for possesing a cartridge YOU gave him as a momento. What if he really does need a couple hundred bucks to keep him out of the slammer? Two hundred bucks is not going to cause any of us any real financial hardship, but it could be the difference in life and liberty to the African.

Would not a prudent course of action be to contact the PH or outfitter and see what the situation really is? If pocket change would get/keep this guy out and working the decent thing to do would be to send him a few bucks through the PH. If the guy is lying, the PH will no doubt deal with him in an appropriate manner.

I got ahold of the p.h. and he said to forget it . As far as he knew it was a scam. He had been in the bush and just got out today and e-mailed me .

To my way of thinking, that was an entirely appropriate response and a stand up way to handle it.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
To my way of thinking, that was an entirely appropriate response and a stand up way to handle it.

Me too.

As a little boy my hero was the Lone Ranger. He would always give a gift of a silver buller at the end of the show to some poor wretch that he had befriended/saved ... Now I find out that he was a sadist !!!

I know that it is not Africa, and the situation is different, but to illustrate how serious some countries treat this sort of thing:

Many years ago, when I was on detachment to Butterworth in Malaysia, there was a case were two teenagers were caught with a .357 revolver. Obviously, only one of them had the gun and the other one only had a single round in his pocket so, it could be assumed, that he had it as a souvenir. Nevertheless, both of them were sentenced to death. I don't know if the sentence was carried out, but it shows how dangerous it can be just to have even a single round in your possession in some parts of the world.

what it shows is the f*cking audacity of governments to treat their citizenry like freeking slaves.

quote:

Originally posted by RW Taylor:
I was in Mexico a few years ago hunting ducks. My outfitter was very clear.."make sure you have no empty or loaded ammo rifle, shotgun, rimfire, in your possession,packs,gear bags etc" we used the outfitters shotguns. Apparently finding such "contraband" could lead to significant hassle if not incarceration.

But yet, it is legal to have 25 milligrams of heroin, a fifth of an ounce of marijuana or half a gram of cocaine. It's also okay to possess small amounts of LSD, hallucinogenic mushrooms, amphetamines and peyote.

But get caught with an empty rimfire case that fell between the seats in your truck and... your ass is grass, baby!

Seriously? Does this make any sense?

When we were leaving Tanz a couple of years ago, they checked the loaded rounds and empties of my wife's 308 against the number on our gun permits that we had brought into the country. Luckily, they didn't do the same for my 375 as I had given all of my unused rounds and brass to our PH.