Recently, I contacted a number of booking agents/consultants (from small operators to the Cabelas of the world) about hunts in RSA, Namibia, Zim and Tanz.

I was suprised that many of the people I spoke with did not have direct experience in those countries, or if they did, they did not hunt the same animals or with the same outfitter/PH or did not recently hunt there ("hunted with them in 2000...").

Most seemed very helpful and mentioned "collective experience of their team", "selection process", "our researched recommendations", "past clients loved them" etc...

Now, how important is first-hand experience when speaking to a booking agent/consultant?

Would you book with an agent/consultant that has no direct experience with the hunt or animals, but based on their research, team/network, other hunting experience etc.??

Honestly, I don't expect a Booking Agent to have hunted with every PH in every concession every year. I would expect them to have been to the concession at least once in the last few years.

Realistically, you have to do all your homework. Interrogate their past clients. Don't just ask "How was your hunt with ABC Safaris?" Check on this site to see if anyone has hunted with them. If you can, meet the outfitter at a safari show.

I'll give you an example of even when this isn't enough. We booked with Swanepoel & Scandrol based on an excellent reputation. Talked to several clients who had hunted with them the previous year. Checked references on our PH. Booked the safari and added camp exclusivity and en suite flush toilets clause to the contract, even though they assured us that was no problem.

Went to the Dallas Safari Show and learned they had new concessions in the Selous (which were marginal concessions) and that they had changed the PH we were to hunt with (without notifying us). Plus we were not impressed with the guys from Swanepoel & Scandrol we met at the Safari Show or the way they treated us. Shunted us off to one of the assistants (who was a dumbass), we didn't rate high enough for Doug Scandrol to even come and shake our hands.

As my wife and I left the show we both said, "If we hadn't already put down a deposit, we wouldn't be hunting with this outfit."

When we arrived in the Selous, guess what? Another hunter was in camp, the camp was not Swan/Scan's but another outfitter and his client wasn't happy to have us in his camp (he thought he had camp exclusivity) and no flush toilets.

Moral of the story, do your homework - don't rely solely on a Booking Agent. Get everything in writing. Don't rely on what they say or what is in their brochure. Add a provision to the contract that they can't change concessions or PH with your approval. If they do, add a provision which allows you to cancel the contract and get back all of your deposit.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
If you have a bad feeling about a Booking Agent because you don't think they have enough first hand experience of the outfitters they are booking, trust your gut feelings and find another Booking Agent.

Great advice. I also don't expect a Booking Agent/Consultant to have hunted with every PH in every concession every year. I was just surprised at how many, for example, may have hunted African plains game, but not in Namibia or Tanz. where they represent PHs/Outfitters...
or are recommending a leopard hunt having not hunted them before...or a Canadian Moose hunt in B.C. having only hunted Newfoundland.

You're right in that it comes down to doing your homework and figuring out the reputation of the Agent/Consultant, possibly trying to speak with past clients or the outfitter...

The only challenge I see with some booking agents/consultants is being able to speak with past clients, the outfitter or the PH. In some cases, I received outfitter brochures with the contact info removed or covered up by the agents/consultants own contact info. Or client references letters with the real outfitter name/PH blocked out.

I guess that the agents/consultants are rightfully trying to prevent a customer from booking directly with the outfitter/PH, but on the other hand, if the agent/consultants have no direct or recent experience with the animals, area, country, then I have to rely on their reputation and my homework. One place puts it this way:

quote:

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Q: Have you personally hunted with each outfitter you book for?

A: No, we have not. I have hunted with a few of them, but definitely not all. Some consultants will not book for an outfitter unless they have hunted with the outfitter. I have neither an unlimited amount of time or money with which to do that. Give me 5 to 10 years, though, and I'll give it a shot! Seriously, if I only booked hunts for outfitters with whom I have personally hunted, I would not be able to offer near the variety of hunts that I do. Why shouldn't you have an opportunity to go on a great hunt just because I haven't?

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Would love to hear from others too.

Terry offers some good advice but there is no way to completely covered.

In my experience, the cheaper the hunt the more risk is involved. The further out a hunt is booked, the more risk is involved, as many outfits are not permanent; the PH's and outfitters can change plans or jobs too, just as you can!

I was on a cheapy hunt near Matetsi once and the "war vets" showed up. Not exactly something one can plan on!

One "established" booking agent told these two old dudes it was cold weather in September on the Zambezi! I was there at the time, sweating. (he was at the DSC show too!(not Ray)).

Talk to as many guys as you can find about the outfitter, PH, and area. If you can't find any, that is a really bad sign!

You are probably way ahead of the game just having the opportunity, as provided by Saeed, to ask around here on the forum.

There is nothing like been there, done that. But things change. There are a few outfits in Zim that I trust, and there is no need for contracts. I've only had one or two in 16 trips. There are no real "guarantees."

Terry, I am booked with Swan/Scan in Zambia this summer. I was also in Dallas but had a good experience with them. What was the problem and have you heard of other people who have had problems with them. I checked references and as you would guess, all were great.

Sprig

Sprig,

The whole safari wasn't a disaster, the real problem stemmed from the fact that they didn't have their own concessions or camps in the Selous. At my insistance, Swan/Scan did move us to Masailand until a different camp became available in the Selous. Unfortuately, the second camp in the Selous was in many ways worst than the first.

Below is the letter I sent them after the safari.

"September 21, 2002

Linda Cunningham
Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris
2951 Marina Bay Blvd.
Suite 130-369
League City, TX 77573

Via Email: Via Fax: 281/334-6398

Dear Linda,

Pursuant to your telephone request, I have outlined the problems and shortcomings my wife and I experienced during our recent safari to the Selous in Tanzania.

Gonabisi:
Our primary complaint was due to the fact that there was another hunter in camp. As you know, I had a camp exclusivity provision in my contract with you (even though your brochure states “…safaris are conducted on a private, individual basis.â€). This camp did not have flush toilets and no ice was available for cocktails. In addition, the beds were uncomfortable and the food was substandard, in particular I recall several lunches comprised of sandwiches on moldy bread and rusted cans of tuna and pineapple. The location of the staff tents, in relation to our tent, was such that we were not afforded any privacy.

MK1:
We were assured that an employee of your company had inspected the camp at MK1 and that it met your standards. This camp was inadequate for the following reasons: no ice (even though, while at Gonabisi, I was assured that ice would be available at the MK1 camp), inadequate refrigeration resulting in no cold drinks of any kind and questionable storage of food products, dirty drinking glasses, poorly trained and inattentive staff, small tent and cramped restroom/shower area, the shower amounted to a mere drizzle of water, inadequately cleaned bathroom, no hand towels, inadequate laundry service which left some of our clothes permanently discolored (a problem we did not experience at Gonabisi), no snacks were provided with our sundowners, desserts consisted mostly of fruit. Also, there was at least one other party hunting on this concession while I was there. Upon departing this camp, we discovered that the camp staff had consumed most of our beer.

The beds were comfortable and the cook was very good. One evening we had a vegetarian dinner, which I found unusual for a hunting camp.

At the end of the safari, I met and talked with two hunters who had just completed a hunt with your company in M1. It was clear from those discussions and from their pictures, that their camp and staff was far superior to those provided to us. All of the things lacking in our camp, including ice and cold drinks, were provided in their camp.

Given all of the above, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Swanepoel & Scandrol for the effort and expense they incurred in flying us to Longido. I realize it was not easy to arrange on such short notice and my wife and I sincerely appreciate it. Nonetheless, all of that expense and effort could have been avoided had the terms of our contract been complied with from the beginning and had you provided a camp of the quality equal to those represented in your promotional materials. Upon my arrival in Tanzania, I was told that you no longer had any concessions in the Selous and that you were using other outfitters’ camps and concessions. It would be improper for you to shift the blame to those outfitters. My agreement was with Swanepoel & Scandrol and it was your obligation to provide me with an exclusive safari of the quality for which I contracted. I believe the correct thing to do was for you to contact me in advance and inform me that you were unable to provide me with an exclusive, first class safari and afford me the option of delaying my safari until your arrangements in the Selous were up to your normal high standards.

Also, I want to especially thank PH Luke Blackbeard. His good temperament, enjoyable personality and excellent hunting skills helped smooth over what was potentially a completely disappointing safari experience.

One of the reasons I booked a safari with your company was your previous reputation for providing a first class, deluxe safari experience. Here are a few quotes from your brochure about the Selous, upon which I relied when selecting your company: “These safaris are conducted from our first class tented safari camps.†“Each camp is staffed by 13-15 qualified, hand selected employees.†“For client comfort all tents are self-contained and safaris are conducted on a private, individual basis.†“Wild country, abundant game, and deluxe camps lead to a true African experience.†Based on my experience with your company during my safari in the Selous, I can honestly say that you did not provide a safari that even remotely approached your reputation nor the promises contained in your brochure.


Sincerely


Terry L. Carr"

Terry, the important thing is how did they respond to your letter?

quote:

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Originally posted by T.Carr:
Sprig,

The whole safari wasn't a disaster, the real problem stemmed from the fact that they didn't have their own concessions or camps in the Selous. At my insistance, Swan/Scan did move us to Masailand until a different camp became available in the Selous. Unfortuately, the second camp in the Selous was in many ways worst than the first.

Below is the letter I sent them after the safari.

"September 21, 2002

Linda Cunningham
Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris
2951 Marina Bay Blvd.
Suite 130-369
League City, TX 77573

Via Email: Via Fax: 281/334-6398

Dear Linda,

Pursuant to your telephone request, I have outlined the problems and shortcomings my wife and I experienced during our recent safari to the Selous in Tanzania.

Gonabisi:
Our primary complaint was due to the fact that there was another hunter in camp. As you know, I had a camp exclusivity provision in my contract with you (even though your brochure states “…safaris are conducted on a private, individual basis.â€). This camp did not have flush toilets and no ice was available for cocktails. In addition, the beds were uncomfortable and the food was substandard, in particular I recall several lunches comprised of sandwiches on moldy bread and rusted cans of tuna and pineapple. The location of the staff tents, in relation to our tent, was such that we were not afforded any privacy.

MK1:
We were assured that an employee of your company had inspected the camp at MK1 and that it met your standards. This camp was inadequate for the following reasons: no ice (even though, while at Gonabisi, I was assured that ice would be available at the MK1 camp), inadequate refrigeration resulting in no cold drinks of any kind and questionable storage of food products, dirty drinking glasses, poorly trained and inattentive staff, small tent and cramped restroom/shower area, the shower amounted to a mere drizzle of water, inadequately cleaned bathroom, no hand towels, inadequate laundry service which left some of our clothes permanently discolored (a problem we did not experience at Gonabisi), no snacks were provided with our sundowners, desserts consisted mostly of fruit. Also, there was at least one other party hunting on this concession while I was there. Upon departing this camp, we discovered that the camp staff had consumed most of our beer.

The beds were comfortable and the cook was very good. One evening we had a vegetarian dinner, which I found unusual for a hunting camp.

At the end of the safari, I met and talked with two hunters who had just completed a hunt with your company in M1. It was clear from those discussions and from their pictures, that their camp and staff was far superior to those provided to us. All of the things lacking in our camp, including ice and cold drinks, were provided in their camp.

Given all of the above, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Swanepoel & Scandrol for the effort and expense they incurred in flying us to Longido. I realize it was not easy to arrange on such short notice and my wife and I sincerely appreciate it. Nonetheless, all of that expense and effort could have been avoided had the terms of our contract been complied with from the beginning and had you provided a camp of the quality equal to those represented in your promotional materials. Upon my arrival in Tanzania, I was told that you no longer had any concessions in the Selous and that you were using other outfitters’ camps and concessions. It would be improper for you to shift the blame to those outfitters. My agreement was with Swanepoel & Scandrol and it was your obligation to provide me with an exclusive safari of the quality for which I contracted. I believe the correct thing to do was for you to contact me in advance and inform me that you were unable to provide me with an exclusive, first class safari and afford me the option of delaying my safari until your arrangements in the Selous were up to your normal high standards.

Also, I want to especially thank PH Luke Blackbeard. His good temperament, enjoyable personality and excellent hunting skills helped smooth over what was potentially a completely disappointing safari experience.

One of the reasons I booked a safari with your company was your previous reputation for providing a first class, deluxe safari experience. Here are a few quotes from your brochure about the Selous, upon which I relied when selecting your company: “These safaris are conducted from our first class tented safari camps.†“Each camp is staffed by 13-15 qualified, hand selected employees.†“For client comfort all tents are self-contained and safaris are conducted on a private, individual basis.†“Wild country, abundant game, and deluxe camps lead to a true African experience.†Based on my experience with your company during my safari in the Selous, I can honestly say that you did not provide a safari that even remotely approached your reputation nor the promises contained in your brochure.


Sincerely


Terry L. Carr"

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Terry,

What was their response to your letter? You were far kinder than I would have been given what you and your wife went through!!

quote:

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Originally posted by bullsprig:
Terry, I am booked with Swan/Scan in Zambia this summer. I was also in Dallas but had a good experience with them. What was the problem and have you heard of other people who have had problems with them. I checked references and as you would guess, all were great.

Sprig

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Hey bullsprig, I think you just highjacked my thread! But isn't this a great place to get firsthand info Welcome to AR I too am curious as to the response to T.Carr's letter.



The original questions were:

quote:

---

Now, how important is first-hand experience when speaking to a booking agent/consultant?

Would you book with an agent/consultant that has no direct experience with the hunt or animals, but based on their research, team/network, other hunting experience etc.??

---

The other isssue is about getting references while still making the Agent/Consultant feel that they are not going to get screwed by giving you their PH, Client or Outfitter contact info:

quote:

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The only challenge I see with some booking agents/consultants is being able to speak with past clients, the outfitter or the PH. In some cases, I received outfitter brochures with the contact info removed or covered up by the agents/consultants own contact info. Or client references letters with the real outfitter name/PH blocked out.

I guess that the agents/consultants are rightfully trying to prevent a customer from booking directly with the outfitter/PH, but on the other hand, if the agent/consultants have no direct or recent experience with the animals, area, country, then I have to rely on their reputation and my homework.

---

Terry, I too have a question. Suppose you have in the contract that certain things will happen eg. exclusive use of the camp, or showers , or whatever, you get there and these conditions are not met and they can't fix it. What happens, what would you expect to happen? This may not come off right, I am not criticizing, just wondering what one could do. After all, you've just spent a bunch of money getting there and want to hunt! I too would be interested in their response and whether you considered it reasonable. How would a booking agent help in this situation?
Thanks for all your knowledge, experience and willingness to share.
peter.

Maybe this is where the smaller operators have an advantage. It is just a commission percentage but actual direct experience of the outfitters involved.

Swan/Scan offered a reduced 10 day safari in Tanzania which I initially accepted and then later cancelled.



Here is my correspondence when I filed my report with The Hunting Report and Swan/Scan's response.



"Date: May 30, 2003 To: The Hunting Report From: Terry L. Carr RE: Safari with Swanepoel & Scandrol

Dear Mr. Causey,

Enclosed please find my Hunting Trip Report regarding my 16-day safari with Swanepoel & Scandrol in Tanzania this past season.

My wife and I experienced some problems with a breach of contract and poor quality camps during this safari. I had a specific provision added to my agreement with S&S, which provided that I would have exclusive use of the camp. Then we arrived at the camp in the Gonabisi Open Area concession, which borders the Selous Game Reserve, we were told that another hunter would be arriving that same day for a 21-day safari. Another outfitter ran the camp and we were “piggy-backing†on this outfitter’s camp and hunting concession. In addition, we had some problems with the quality of the camp. I voiced my concerns to the PH and instructed to him to get us into an exclusive camp. After three days, S&S transferred us to the Longido concession in Masailand for four days until another camp, located in the MK1 concession of the Selous, was available.

We were assured by S&S that the camp in MK1 was up to the S&S’s standards. When we arrived, we found that this camp was, in many ways, worse than the first camp. At this point, we decided to make the best of a bad situation and continue our safari under less than optimum conditions.

I have attached a letter that I sent to S&S shortly after our return. It has specific details of the problems we experienced on the safari.

Please attach this letter to my Hunting Trip Report so that your readers will have a full understanding of the issues we faced.

I have delayed filing this report until my trophies were shipped from Tanzania.

[Copy of my letter to Swan/Scan -see my previous post,]

Date: August 29, 2003 To: The Hunting Report From: Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris RE: Complaint from Terry Carr

Dear Hunting Community,

First my apologies for not getting this response out sooner but I have been consistently on safari from early June till August 20th when I returned to the USA. I am in receipt of the letter forwarded to the Hunting Report from Terry Carr dated May 30th, 2003 as well as a request for reply from the Hunting Report dated June 12th, 2003.

I have reviewed the Terry Carr’s letter and will make the following comments. This is not a rebuttal at all but just a statement of our position on the set up, conduct and overall outcome of the safari and the policies of Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris in general.

First and foremost we have fully agreed since we first became aware of the irregularities of Terry’s safari that is was not up to the usual contracted for exclusive use of the Gonabisi hunting area for specific periods of time during the 2002 season as we had surveyed the area in 2001 and found the populations of most species of game to be very strong and therefore an excellent place for buffalo and specie type safaris. We had been assured that the camp construction and operation would be at a standard acceptable to our operations. This was our first attempt to operate in this manner as we have previously always taken full exclusivity in our hunting areas and maintained full control of camp facilities but we decided that we would proceed with this program as we felt the hunting opportunities would be excellent for our clients.

We were just as surprised to hear of another client coming to the camp as Terry was. We simply were blindsided by our partner operator who accepted this additional booking knowing full well that we had contracted for an exclusive camp arrangement during this period. It was the first time in 12 years of operations in Tanzania that we were to be hunting out of a camp that was not fully under our own direct control. Once we became aware of the situation we took as much immediate action as was possible to correct the situation at hand as it was also not acceptable to us either.

The initial action we took was to transfer the entire Carr safari by private charter, totally at our expense, to our premier camp in the Longido area of Masailand allowing them to hunt for the indigenous species found there such as Grants gazelle, Thomson gazelle and East African impala while we did what was humanly possible to correct the situation in the Gonabisi area. It was basically impossible to physically force the intruding client and PH (they were just as surprised to find us there as well) to leave the Gonabisi area so we arranged to shift the balance of the hunt to the MK1 area of the Selous game reserve. I also had not had a chance to do a personal inspection of this camp and relied again on assurances that is was much better than the original Gonabisi camp and with no other viable options I accepted this as fact. We again used private air charter, at no expense to the client, to return them to the MK1 block for the balance of the safari.

We were again extremely disappointed to hear that things were not as represented at the MK1 camp either and based on communications from our PH Luke Blackbeard it was decided to carry on with the hunt and that we would make good to Terry however we needed to at the conclusion of the safari.

It is fully agreed that neither the Gonabisi nor MK1 camp were at the standards expected on a safari with Swanepoel and Scandrol. This was our first and last attempt to “share†an area without having total control over the area and also to use anything other than our own certified camps and equipment. We have operated in a “subcontract†manner in Tanzania since 1989 and our overall success and reputation speaks for the viability of this arrangement. It has been stated that “we no longer had any concessions in the Selous†and whoever made this statement just simply does not know what they are talking about. We operated exclusively in 3 blocks in the Selous Game Reserve in the 2002 season and had taken on the opportunity to hunt in the Gonabisi area only due to the strong game population found there. It should be noted that Terry did take 3 buffalo, crocodile, Nyasa wildebeest and zebra the above mentioned Masai game mentioned above on this safari.

After Terry returned to USA from the safari we immediately began a line of communication with him on how we can “make right†with him. Again I state that we fully agreed that the accommodation and facilities were not anywhere near our standards. We also further agreed that Terry’s safari was to be done on an “exclusive†camp arrangement basis, which for a portion of the hunt we were unable to provide due to circumstances that were out of our control but not out of our realm of obligation. After discussions with Terry we came to an agreement to do a return 10 day hunt to Tanzania in one of our best Buffalo blocks in Masailand fully on a costs only basis and dates were confirmed as July 1 – 10th, 2004. We drafted and forwarded to Terry a safari agreement for this return safari on December 4th, 2002. I wanted Terry to be a satisfied client and was prepared to go to whatever lengths were required to make this happen and with the discussions and subsequent scheduling of the return safari I felt we would be able to accomplish this. The new safari agreement was signed on March 3rd, 2003 and we added an addendum at Terry’s request to specifically address the primary faults of the first safari, which were for the exclusive camp arrangement for reference. The new, signed safari agreement and also the addendum were returned to us along with a deposit check for $3,400 as initial deposit thereby fully confirming this “make right†safari.

We proceeded with the plans for this return safari right up to the point were we received notification from Terry on May 7th, 2003 that he was going on a safari to Zimbabwe in 2003 and was not going to be able to make this return hunt in July of 2004 and was canceling. We then refunded his deposits in full. We advised that our offer to “make right†by Terry however necessary was a standing offer and he should contact us as soon as his schedule was clear and he could make plans. At no time was any other type of arrangement discussed or requested as to what we could do to make up for the shortcomings of this safari. I have to say that I was very surprised to hear about Terry’s letter to The Hunting Report. In Terry’s letter of May 30th to the Hunting Report it states “I have delayed filing this report until my trophies were shipped from Tanzaniaâ€. I do not understand this at all as we would never delay or hold up a client’s trophy shipment. There was never a mention of this being a concern or issue by Terry at any time during the discussions and planning for the 2004 return safari. We admitted right from the start that we did not live up to our reputation or standards on this safari and in No Way were we looking to escape any of our obligations to the client.

In summary I will again say that this safari did not live up to our standards or expectations in regards to the camp facilities or exclusive status. I am sorry that Terry has not given us an opportunity to do “whatever it takes†to make him a satisfied client, as I am 100% sure we can do so. We have been operating in multiple countries of Africa since the early 80’s and have literally taken over 1,500 clients on safari in those countries. It has never been our policy to “mix†clients in camps even when an exclusive status is not specifically requested. What I have come to learn that in the safari business and most especially in Africa sometimes with nothing but the best of plans and intentions things go haywire. Safari operations are never an exact science. I feel very fortunate that in the wide-ranging scope and volume of our operations that issues of this sort have rarely come up. One thing that I feel separates Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris from many others is that we never run away from our faults and always put the clients satisfaction and happiness ahead of all else. I am sorry Terry has seen fit to bring this issue to the attention of the hunting community instead of requesting some other resolution with us if the original program planned was not acceptable. We remain committed to Terry Carr and all our clients to do “whatever it takes†to maintain the fine reputation we have built in the last 20 years.

Anyone who feels this issue may affect their booking or safari with Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris may feel free to contact me directly via email.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW DOCUMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: November 25, 2003 To: The Hunting Report From: Swanepoel & Scandrol RE: Complaint from Terry Carr

Now that some time has passed since Doug sent you his last email/letter, we wanted to be sure that you understand that our ultimate goal is to make sure you become a satisfied Swanepoel & Scandrol Safaris client.

With the reopening of Zambia this year, we would like to extend our offer of a return 10-day 1X1 safari with one observer to Zambia in either 2004 or 2005 on a "cost only" basis. This hunt would include 6-7 days of buffalo/plains game hunting, a day trip to hunt the Kafue Lechwe in the Kafue Flats and if desired, a couple of days on a game ranch for classical or other species.

It is important to us that you know we remain committed to making you a satisfied client.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW DOCUMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: December 2, 2003 To: Swanepoel & Scandrol From: Terry Carr RE: Complaint by Terry Carr

Thank you very much for you offer of a discounted hunt in Zambia. I really appreaciate your effort in "making things right" regarding my previous safari to Tanzania.

However, I must decline your offer.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter:
Terry, I too have a question. Suppose you have in the contract that certain things will happen eg. exclusive use of the camp, or showers , or whatever, you get there and these conditions are not met and they can't fix it. What happens, what would you expect to happen? This may not come off right, I am not criticizing, just wondering what one could do. After all, you've just spent a bunch of money getting there and want to hunt! I too would be interested in their response and whether you considered it reasonable. How would a booking agent help in this situation?
Thanks for all your knowledge, experience and willingness to share.
peter.

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Peter,

Having the "camp exclusivity" in black and white and having a copy of the contract with me was much better than just saying, "Hey, that guy in your office said nobody else would be in camp." As I have said in the past, a contract with all the details helps when the outfitter is willing to try to solve the problems. If you have an outfitter who is going to screw you, it really doesn't matter what the contract says. A well written contract will allow you to prove that you were wronged by the outfitter when you return. You might be able to get some form of refund from the booking agent or outfitter, but most likely, your only recourse is to file a negative hunt report.

A thorough contract will help avoid misconceptions and will be a benefit with a good outfitter. With a bad outfitter, I'm afraid their isn't much recourse.

To Swan/Scan's benefit, they did move us to Masailand and then to another camp in the Selous. However, their initial plan was for us to stay in the first camp in the Selous for 7 days until the second camp opened up. I was the one who came up with the idea of moving to Masailand and applied pressure on the PH to get that deal approved by Doug Scandrol.

Regards,

Terry

You know, some people might think that I "made a mountain out of a mole hill" over the camp conditions.

But Swan/Scan is one of the most expensive outiftters and they can charge those prices because of their reputation for first class safaris.

Some people might like more rustic safari experiences, but I enjoy and expect a first class safari and I am willing to pay for it. I expect to have a cold beer and ice in my wife's gin and tonic. I expect clean clothes and clean sleeping accomodations. I expect a staff who you can trust and won't steal from you. In the Selous, my wife stayed in camp one afternoon and wouldn't do it again. She felt uncomfortable around the staff without me or the PH there. Something she has never felt on 3 other safaris.

In my mind, I didn't get the benefit of the bargain. Quite simply, I paid for a first class safari and received something less.

It is unfortunate that too many hunters aren't willing to file negative hunt reports. For whatever reason, people don't want to admit that didn't get what they paid for.

Regards,

Terry

I cetainly don't blame you for being upset or not availing yourself of their offer. One bad hunt is enough let alone going on another "at cost". I think I'd have to pass just from the stress factor of wondering how things would turn out. I would agrre with the suggestion that certain companys can just too darn big for their own britches. In regards to the initial post I personally would never book with a gent that has never been to the camp I was looking at or had never hunted the species I was interested in.
T.Carr, can I ask what agents or outfitters you do reccomend ?

Terry has offered some excellent advice and I for one don't think he was making a mountain out of a molehill.

I sincerely believe any client is spending a huge amount of money on a safari and deserves a top class product. It doesn't matter if the client is rich or poor, it's still a lot of money.

The problem with many agents is that if they don't have an intimate knowledge of the hunting areas they can unknowingly mis-lead a client as to standards, facilities and pretty much anything else you care to mention. A good agent will admit not knowing all the answers and will tell the client he'll find out the answers to his questions......a bad agent will try to BS his way out of the questions, and that's where a good many problems can occur.

However, as Terry's post also proves, outfitters can also get it wrong. This can happen especially easily if the company concerned tries to expand faster than they can cope with or faster than they can afford. (IMO) The SCI etc policy of donated & auctioned hunts makes this situation a lot worse.......

quote:

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Originally posted by ChuckWagon:
T.Carr, can I ask what agents or outfitters you do reccomend ?

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I am hesitant to give a list for this reason, I can only offer you a "picture frozen in time" about a certain outfitter the way it was when I hunted with them. Things may have changed, for the better or worse, since I hunted with the outfitter.

Take Swan/Scan, I talked in detail to a guy who hunted with them in the Selous the year before we went. He had a great time. The camps and staff were excellent and Swan/Scan had a female camp manager who saw that everything ran smoothly. For all I know, Swan/Scan may have the same set up this season in the Selous. They may have their own camps, tents, staff and a resident camp manager.

If I was thinking of hunting Zambia, I would still consider Swan/Scan. They have a long history of hunting in Zambia and have been granted the hunting rights to the Mumbwa GMA, so they have a vested interest in that area. I know that Swan/Scan also offers hunts on other concessions in Zambia which are held by other outfitters. Why would I go through Swan/Scan to hunt those concessions? Why not deal directly with the concession holder who has direct control over the concession, staff, camp and logistics?

Another example is Russ Broom Safaris, I hunted with them 2 years ago and had a great safari. Wonderful camps, great food, professional staff and PH. Good honest hunting in the Zambezi Valley. But, I got a call from a guy who hunted with them shortly after I did. He was disappointed. According to him, Russ promised him a 60 pound elephant. Well he hunted hard, saw over 50 bull elephants but no 60 pounder. To him, it was a bad safari. Well, anyone who knows the Zambezi Valley knows not to tell someone to expect a 60 pound elephant. So did Russ actually tell him that or did the hunter have false expectations? Who knows.

Regards,

Terry

While we're on this subject. Let me go through how I selected an outfitter for our safari this season.

First, what did I want to hunt? Buffalo, sable and cow elephant.

Next, where to hunt. Zimbabwe, it offers the trophies I wanted to hunt at good prices. Plus, I love the Zambezi Valley. I only considered concessions in the Zambezi Valley, although I could hunt my selected trophies in other areas of ZIM. Also, I wanted a few selected plains game; bushbuck, giraffe and two zebra. Well, most of the Zambezi Valley concessions are a little thin when it comes to plains game so I had to consider an outfitter that could also offer a ranch hunt for plains game (especially for giraffe).

The problem arises that many of the concession holders in the Zambezi Valley don't have access to game ranches because of the "war vets" taking over so many of the ranches. Another problem with ZIM is the general "state of affairs" with the policitcal situation. So I wanted to book with a large outfitter, rather than a smaller independant outfitter.

As most of you know, HHK Safaris is the biggest outfitter in ZIM. Plus they own the large game ranch, Lemco. I considered Russ Broom Safaris, based on my previous experience, but they couldn't offer the plains game portion of the safari. I also considered a few other outfitters (both independants and concession holders), but again they offered limited plains game opportunities. Had I just wanted buffalo and tuskless elephant and was willing to settle for targets of opportunity on plains game available in the Zambezi Valley, then I would have had more of a selection of outfitters. So I decided on HHK Safaris.

The fact that I stay up to date on outfitters and the conditions in ZIM meant that I didn't have to check references on HHK. Their reputation precedes them.

So off the Dallas Safari Show to book a hunt (knowing that booking a hunt this late was going to require some luck). Fortunately, HHK had a few dates available and also had quota (just one or two sable left on quota).

As many know, HHK is now marketing hunts for other outfitters. We originally discussed hunting on HHK concessions but ended up booking our buffalo, tuskless and sable with Swainson's Safaris and our plains game with HHK at Lemco. All of this was booked directly with HHK. Again, being up to date, I knew that Swainson's has a good reputation so I was comfortable with them.

And yes, I added a "camp exclusivity" clause to the safari contract.

Regards,

Terry

Terry, thanks for the reply to my post. Now, how does one get the kind of knowledge that you have (about regions, outfitters etc).
Peter.

Getting back to the heart of Lefty's question, would not the best yardstick be to ask how often the "agent" travels to Africa? It seems that on AR most of the gang in the booking business are there every season, either looking at new operations or checking on "old friends".The gentleman I book with has made something on the order of 17 trips in the last 15 years. You can't get that kind of info by phone, fax or e-mail.It also demonstrates a level of commitment most clients would expect.

Terry

What I don't understand in these hunts, is when an outfitter stuffs up a hunt and fails to deliver what was promised, why is it always a FUTURE hunt that is discounted? Why is a partial REFUND not negotiated? A refund seems to me to be the obvious remedy.

Its seems the future hunt is a new transaction but the failure to deliver is an existing transaction.

I guess no one likes to give back what they have already pocketed ???

Exactly, I would rather have some of my money back. Why put good money after bad?

Regards,

Terry

crane, yes, that makes sense. At least the person is actively involved in hunting Africa on a regular basis.

I feel it would be cowardly of me not to reply to this.

A lot depends on who you book with and I can't speak for other outfitters etc. But here's what we do.

We've been in the industry for about 16 years now (although I have been hunting in Africa for over 25 years) and in that time I can only remember 2 failures. Both strangely enough were last year and both clients had paid for a package of a 7 or 10 day hunt which included the trophy fee on a Buffalo. One involved the client hunting with one of the PHs who freelances for us and the other was with me as the PH......on both occasions the clients had good hunts and hunted well but for various reasons didn't get their Buffalo......although they did both get other game and were happy with all the other arrangements and facilities.

On both occasions we gave them a full refund on the trophy fee of the Buffalo they didn't shoot. ...........and the only people who were more disappointed than the clients at this failure were Jason (the freelance PH) Susan (my partner) and myself.......nothing to do with the money, we just all hate to fail.

We've never had a single client claim to be disappointed with pricing, safari planning, standards of camp or hunting area or misled in descriptions etc.

bullsprig

The outfitter who helped me hunt in RSA (with Mabelingwane Safaris) took his dad to the Selous on a buffalo hunt booked with S&S. $25K worth of hunt later, this "thanks for setting me up in business, Dad" family affair resulted in a trophy of one spent case with a bit of blood trail scraped up in it. Two wounded buffalo, no ability of the "PH's" to track either buffalo -- tried to do it from the bed of a truck! -- in a concession heavily hunted for ten days by adjacent hunters, NOT in the famed Selous but nearby, and the best S&S could do is offer the next hunt at 2/3 the price. This is like getting a sheep hunting "guide" who welds for a living and helps his outfitter buddy book extra hunts FOR THE MONEY ALONE! "Shaft(ed) in Africa".

My outfitter friend said he should have gotten back on the plane right after finding out they wouldn't be hunting the Selous after all -- bait and switch? The crazy thing to me is, S&S does business with the safari operation my friend represents, an outfit who owns land in Northern Provinc RSA, and the animals hunted by S&S clients. I'd have expected that for business reasons they'd take better care of him. And, "Dad" represents several double rifle firms at Safari Club shows not too many aisles away from S&S. It seems arrogance blinds you to what negative press could do. What gall.

I have a healthy appetite, but after getting off the phone with my friend, I couldn't eat my lunch until two hours later. Made me sick to my stomach. This was a couple years ago, and after posting this I don't want my breakfast.

agazain