And you thought shipping trophies from Africa was high! This morning I got a fax from a Taxidermists in Alberta regarding my muskox cape/horns and caribou cape/horns. As per his fax this is his fees

1 muskox cape/horns…$355.00
1 caribou cape/horns….$255.00
crate/permit/pack……..$245.00

He then adds: Please note these fees are in US dollars and do not include GST or shipping from our office to your door.

So now I’m wondering just what I’m getting for $610.00 (355+255)? This is RAW trophies, all he was suppose to do was salt them and get them ready to ship. You should see what he wants to do shoulder mounts. And $245 of crate/permit/pack, that seems a bit high. If the plane from Cambridge Bay to Edmonton hadn’t been full I could have brought them back with me for a fourth of this cost. I really want to have these mounted but this seems pretty high to me!

Mark,
Looks a bit high for salting the capes. Have you contacted the outfitter or booking agent for assistance?

I have seen this same type of crap on a hunt recently.When they charge you nearly as much to send the stuff home as the licence and trophy fees cost, they are merely taking advantage of you after the fact.It is a way of collecting more money that you do not get a chance to figure in to the total cost beforehand.

What happens is the outfitter/guide says I will refer my business to you for a cut of the fees.The taxidermist then just ups his fees to cover the added costs.

Tell them to send the stuff to a different taxidermist for prepping and shipment.Perhaps you can get on the internet and communicate with another taxidermist in the area about bidding for his services.

It does not help with this hunt but remember on your next hunt to negotiate the cost of trophy prep and shipping prior to the hunt.You will find that you have a great deal more leverage at that time.

What's the name of the taxidermist Mark? is it in Edmonton? Does this quote include caping of the animals? The crating fee seems OK to me but the "salting" fee for both hides is high if he didn't do any of the caping.

This just seems high to me, I know it is WAY more than I was expecting. And its far more than I’ve paid to ship trophies from Africa, the most expensive one was $2400+/- to my door and that was for 7 animals! And where talking about airfreight from Africa! If the plane hadn’t been full I could have brought them back myself for a fourth of this, other guys in Edmonton were doing it. Hell, for a lot less than this I could fly up on a Saturday, pick them up and fly back on Sunday. It just seems this is WAY over priced. I mean, I’d like to have them mounted but before I pay $855 plus shipping and tax he can have the damn things!

Trapntrav,
Yes the taxidermist is in Edmonton. Both the caribou and muskox was capped in Cambridge Bay by the guide. The problem started with the flight out to Edmonton, the plane was full and we couldn’t get our trophies on that flight. So the outfitter made arrangements for them to go out on a later flight and recommend this and two other taxidermist. Another guy and me choose to use this taxidermist and called him when we got to Edmonton. I told him all I wanted was for him to dry them out and ship them to me as inexpensive as possible. The only thing I know he’s done is pick them up at the airport, called me to leave a message that he had them and then send me this fax. If he had to or has fleshed the capes I don’t know but I’m planning on calling him tonight.

Mark, you are paying for weight aand volmetric space..Take a guess you have at least 80lbs. and crate weight...

Mike

well, that sucks, looks like they have you "over a barrel" , maybe he tanned them instead of salting?

Did he flesh and salt them? Or just salt them?

This does include shipping, right?

Did you get the entire Muskox coat? What about the entire Caribou? Cape and backskins that is.

How much is the actual permit?

there must be someone from the Edmonton area registered on AR. How about lending a hand here...Cripes we're all hunters aren't we?
Mark: why not look thru the registered members list, send them an email with a offer of a fair price and your serious thanks, to pick them up, salt them and send them to you. Hell if I lived around there I'd do it for you myself. Cats

OK, so I called the guy this evening and we had a 30 plus minute conversation that was pretty civil expect for the few times that I got rather pissed. Anyway, yep it looks like I'm pretty much screwed. Turns out he has already fleshed, cleaned and salted the hides and skull caps. Thats what the $610 fee is for, 335 for muskox and 225 for the caribou. In his words "they are now both ready to be tanned". Why he did this I don't know, he says this is his "standard customer service". It certainly isn't what I thought he was going to do but I take part of the blame for the miscommunication and should have followed up with a few more phone calls to him. On the other hand I wish he had talked to me before doing $610 worth of work that I didn't want done by him. The $200 is for him to build a crate, pack the capes and horns in it and deliver the crate to an export broker. $45 is for the export permit. Which brings his fees to $855. Again this does not inculde any shipping fees from Canada to Alabama or any export/import brokerage fees. He is going to check tommorow to see what that will cost. I'm betting the grad total will be $1200 to $1500. The one thing that pisses me off is that if the plane hadn't been full I could have brought them with me for around $300. If I had known then what I know now I would have given my guide the $300 worth of gear in my Cabelas bag, sawed the caribou rack in half, stuffed the horn and capes in it and still would have come out better than this.

Wendell,

As you can see this doesn't include shipping.

The Muskox cape is only for a half mount and the caribou is shoulder mount only. The Inuit guides kept the backskins.

I am wondering who's fault it was that the plane was full, meaning who overbooked it (I am not saying it was you, I am guessing it was the guide or the plane company). I am just curious on that point.

I don't know what the laws/rules are. Honest, good business people won't do work that they know they aren't supposed to. And when they make a mistake they understand that they shouldn't get paid for it. How much would what he did normally cost, have you talked to other taxidermists in his area? I'd be really pissed to, but don't know how much you paid for the hunt and that would probably decide for me if I would just give the stuff up now.

If you can really fly up there and retrieve for less than the shipping I would do that, if for no other reason than to see his work before accepting it so you don't pay 600+ for shit. If he is willing to screw you for "standard service" he'd be more than willing to screw you by charging then sending substandard work.

You should talk to the guide that recommended him, see if he has any pull, if he has sent other business this guys way it might not be worth it to the taxidermist to screw one of his clients and chance loosing any more referred work.

Red

When I flew from Norman Wells, Yukon to Cranbrook, BC (2001) (through Edmonton) we carried two sets of caribou horns on the plane plus one caribou cape and one full cape from a dall sheep and his horns. I know we had to pay extra but I think it was in the $150 dollar range for everything. And I think that was Canadian.

YOU GOT SCREWED.

I live north of Edmonton in Ft McMurray, my son shot his first black bear this fall. The taxidermist charged me $75 for fleshing out and salting the hide, $75 for bleaching the skull, the the rug will be another $550. He didn't have to go get it at the airport or arrange export. The taxidermist in question is Richard Page, I found his manner and attitude to be honest and good. I would think if I was a taxidermist and someone arranged for me to pick up his trophies that I would also be hired to do some work on them, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

If nothing else, contact Serena at (780)464-4046,or email her at sctransportation@shaw.ca
and talk with her about the best and most economical way to ship to your door.She's a specialist and does a good job.

The real headache here is that your guide and outfitter don't consider fleshing and salting as part of their job! I don't consider anyone a guide if they don't have these talents and have made the fact clear to all prospective new hires.

Up until this year most of your outfitter's trophies went to Robertson's Taxidermy in Yellowknife for prep work. It reached the point they were swamped with prep work and were losing too much time away from client's mounts, ...and finally said "Too much for too little!" They still accept mounting and prefer to concentrate on that, but a couple of the Arctic outfitters then decided to boycott Robertson's and to hell with the clients and their trophies, "just send them anywhere, we've got their money now and are through with them!"

This has ended up with clients like yourself getting the shaft, ....bet you weren't even told Robertson's existed and that they'd ship your mount FOB to Edmonton for furtherance through S C Transportation above.

We recommend Robertson's to all our clients and 97% use them time and again.

"nuff said", ~Arctic~

Make sure we know who your outfitter was for this hunt.

Collectively we can let him know what we think of this....by not giving him business.

Garrett

Arctic,

Before the hunt the outfitter sent me an information package. In it was tha names of several taxidermist and as I recall at least one of them was in Yellowknife, I'm pretty sure the info also stated that the guy in Yellowknife would only do mounts and forward them to you. Not sure what the name was but I can look this evening. The info package also explained how to bring the capes/horns back with you, telling you what to bring to wrap and tape everything up, which I did. Plus I also called the outfitter and discussed this with him. Didn't seem like a big deal I've always brought capes/horns back with me, even done it twice from Canada before, so that was my plan. Would have work if it hadn't be for the full plane in Cambrige Bay. BTW after we found out the plane was full, which is run by First North, I think, the outfitters agent did remind us about the guy in yellowknife. But since he only does mounts and I didn't want to pay to ship them from Yellowkinfe to Alabama, I choose the guy in Alberta.

I guess what pisses me off most is this is an expense that wasn't planned and with better planning, communication, could have been avoided. That plus I feel the guy is taking advantage of the situation and his fees are about twice what I could have had the work done for here. (For shoulder mounts he wants $1650 for the muskox, $795 for the caribou, $325 to crate/pack, plus SHIPPING and tax.) Think about it, if you had planned $300 to get the trophies home and now its going to be $1200 to $1500, more or less, wouldn't you be upset?

Anyway, my wife wants us to do a caribou hunt in '07 and your one of the first guys I thought of. I'll be PM you our contact info.

Similar thing happened to be the first time I went to Africa. I did not have time to meet with the Taxidermy when I left. Two months later I got a bill for $5500 to do the taxidermy work on 5 animals, just the work...no shipping to the states. I told them to burn the stuff...my total hunt cost was less than $5000. Live and learn. Never leave anything behind unless you have a negotiated contract up front.

Just got off the phone with my local taxidermist. His normal fee to mount the caribou is $600 and he said he'd do the muskox for $900, $1500 total. Beats the hell out of the $2445 the canada guy wants. When I told him the guy in canada had fleshed it he said he'd take a look at it and maybe he could take $100 to $150 off that price. When I told him what the guy in canada wants for the fleshing he said he was living in the wrong country!

mark65x55 - it's a bit of a gamble, but I'd be inclined to tell the guy what I was willing to pay him for what he's done.

If he doesn't want that - then tell him he can keep them.

Mark,

quote:

Turns out he has already fleshed, cleaned and salted the hides and skull caps. Thats what the $610 fee is for, 335 for muskox and 225 for the caribou.

This should have been the job of the guide, especially if on a high dollar hunt. I usually do the work myself as I can do a better job than most, but I have to agree with Arctic that guides should have the experience to do that work if you require it. Sometimes outfitters will charge an extra $50-100 per cape to flesh and salt, more if a half mount.

1. Is that CAD or USD? Just to see how badly he is scewing you.

2. Most taxidermists do not charge extra for those services- it is already included in the price of the mount. That is why the other taxidermist was willing to take off $100-150 off of his price-his cost to do those services himself.

3. It should normally cost, on average, about $200 CAD for a half Muskox and about $85 CAD for a Caribou cape for fleshing, salting and drying- if the taxidermy work was not being done at their shop. If it was, I'd expect it to be included in the price of the mount.

4. As a result of the above, I think that it is fair to say that he is charging you too much- just for those services.

5. The extra $200 for crating is a bit out of line too, but not totally unreasonable. I would have charged about $125 CAD for that.

IF you wish, P.M. me his first name to see if I know him.

Cheers,
CL

All prices are US Funds.

I just got off of the phone with my local taxidermist and he charges between $175 and $200 Canadian to flesh and salt a 1/2 Muskox cape. He receives several each year that pass throught Montreal. He also said that if the guide put a lot of holes in the cape that he might have to add another $25-$50 in repair time for a total max of between $200-$250 Canadian.

For Caribou, he charges $75.

I gotta say, in fairness, you should have contacted your guy before having him pick up at the airport to get a price quote. Also, his prices include the pick-up at the airport, which would normally cost an additional $50.

IMHO, if the guy will nock off $100-150 USD, cut your loses and send him a cheque.

Sometimes taxidermist to taxidermist there is no bullshit as to cost and reasonable profit- if you have a local guy that you know who might give him a 'diplomatic' call- that might help in reducing the bill.

Best of success!

quote:

Originally posted by CanadianLefty:

I gotta say, in fairness, you should have contacted your guy before having him pick up at the airport to get a price quote.

Yep, I agree. But when your standing there waiting to get on the plane with a dumbass look on your face, after they just told you they can't take your trophies, what are you going to do??? Aint a lot of time to workout a contract.

I e-mailed the outfitter and here is their reply.

I am sorry that you feel we are dismissing you or your comments but we send out pre-hunt material to our clients 3 to 4 months before their hunts so they can shop around and compare prices before their hunt I am sure that if you go to buy a car you might go to two different
dealers to see who will give you the best deal - all things being equal.Again I don't know if **** or your taxidermist works on a $100 mark
up or a $1,000 mark up or who needs the work and who does not. Your taxidermist might give you a break on his price to get the work rather than someone else getting the work. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
Our polar bear hunts are $27,500 U.S. and one of our competitors charges $31,000 and you can find polar bear hunts on the market for $18,500
U.S. so who is overcharging? Why don't you contact ***** Taxidermy in Yellowknife and see what they charge for mounts? You can reach them at *****.com and get their prices. I've sure that if I gave you info on 6 taxidermists they would all charge different prices. If they need work they would be more than happy to lowball. I don't know of any other taxidermists in Edmonton but I am sure that if you google you will find someone else. I know that there was someone called ***** but I don't know if he is still in business or what his company name is.
------------------------------------------------
My reply...
OK I get the message and will keep this in mind when planning hunts.

But for the record I did get the pre-hunt material your talking about. As per the information in that package I was planning on bring the capes and horns back with me. If the plane from Cambridge Bay to Edmonton hadn't
been full I could have brought them back with me for a fourth of this cost. I guess what pisses me off most is this is an expense
that wasn't planned and with better planning, communication, could have been avoided. That plus I feel the guy is taking advantage of the situation and his fees are about twice what I could have had the work done for here.

------------------------------------------------
Their reply...
The customer is always right. You will have the final word.
------------------------------------------------
My reply...
Meaning???
------------------------------------------------
Their reply...
End of discussion.

I completely understand you being upset.

Getting charged for unsolicited labor is nothing short of extortion.

This guy is no better than those idiots that spontaneously "wash" your windshield while you are stopped at a traffic light. They then stick out a hand and demand payment for the service while holding a pipewrench in their other hand.

It seems that this incident has created a thread on the forums over at http://www.taxidermy.net. Here's the URL:

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/GameheadArticles/06/a/06FFDA0099.html

I hope this works out for you.

JDS

I hate to mention this, but wait until you get the bill for shipping if you are a bit pissed off now. My friends and I have had several experiences with this sort of thing. In the future, I will bring the skins etc. back with me on the plane and pay the exhorbitant excess baggage rates. This is much cheaper than having the stuff "prepared" by a taxidermist in the country in which you hunted and then shipped at the "cheaper" land rates. Besides, you know and trust you local taxidermist. The prices you are being charged do seem high. I suspect you should check with Ron (Widowmaker416) as this is his business, and he could advise you.
This happened in a similar way on a hunt in New Mexico to a group of us. We all took bull elk, and were told that the guides didn't cape or prep hides; that this had to be done by the local butcher shop/taxidermist. I will never hunt with that outfitter again. I even volunteered to cape the animals myself for the guys, but the outfitter told me I Would not be permitted to do it as he had an arrangement with the local shop. I knew then that we were skrud.

I am thinking of a barren grounds caribou hunt in the near future, and appreciate your telling this tale of woe. I will be sure to ask the outfitter this question before I book. "Do you prep the hides for shipping, or do I have to pay a taxidermist to do it?"

Looking back on this hunt there was a BUNCH of people with their hand out wanting money. I booked the hunt through a US agent, who took a 10 or 15% cut. He was working for a Canadian outfitter, who took a cut, who was marketing hunts for the local inuit trappers and tradering company. Then there was the travel agent the canadian outfitter recommend, that could get you "special" rates on the airfare to Cambridge Bay and the hotels. Two hotels BTW one in Edmonton and one in Cam Bay, which charged $185 per night and $15 for a hamburger and fries. But I KNEW all that going into the hunt and just took it as apart of doing business that I was willing to pay. Getting screwed to the tune of $1200 to get the capes/horns home wasn't in the info package I got

Will I hunt canada agian? Hell yeah! This was my third trip and theres much more up there I'd like to hunt.

As to the shipping he called me Friday and said he could have it shipped to the nearest airport for $335 can. I faxed the guy Friday night offering him $450 US for his services, to be paid by a third party after I received shipment. I'd make my own shipping plans and payments. Don't want him doing anything else for me! So far I haven't heard back from him.

I will share with you my first lesson in how one can get skrud by those elsewhere. I went on a caribou hunt way back in 1991. There was a taxidermist in the camp whose job it was to cape the animals. When he did mine, he suggested that he could do a mount for me for $350 per head. Being younger and dumber, I agreed. After all, it was easier to get him to take the horns and capes to Winnipeg than it would have been for me to take them home. A year later when I was contacted by the taxidermist, they told me they would be shipping my two heads by truck and to expect them. Of course it would be fob. When the heads got to me, the bill was $475. That was $475 for each caribou head! So my relatively copetetive mounting of two heads for $700 quickly turned into two heads for $1650, shipping included. Of course I didn't include the taxes and duties. This brought the grand total to over $1700.
Since that time, I have brought my heads and hides home on the plane with me. If this was not possible, I split the antlers and packed them in my duffle bag. If I couldn't do that, I have left the antlers and hides there.
I will not hunt with an outfitter that does not prep capes for shipping ever again, and this will be one question I will ask every outfitter in the future.
Will I hunt in Canada again? Sure I will. I am just a bit smarter about it now.

Mark- I have never been "strapped on" in Africa like I have been in Canada.My last Canada experience(FOREVER) involved all manner of folks with their hands out. It was a "pile on the Americans" the likes of which I have yet to see in Africa.

The guy faxed me back today, with a full page rant. In it he said my offer of only 50% is "insulting" and "In an effort to resolve this as soon as possible we will give a consideration to reducing your bill $100.00 dollars".

I'm thinking of faxing him back with this reply.
50% is better than 0.
Love and kisses, have a good life.

That would be a bad move.

Faxes and email will not work for something like this. Call him on the phone. Be calm and rational.

Tell him that you have done comparative market research, that the price you have offered is fair, and is the most you are willing to pay.

Don't rant or rave. Just lay it out. Then be willing to live with the consequences.

quote:

Their reply...
The customer is always right. You will have the final word.
------------------------------------------------
My reply...
Meaning???
------------------------------------------------
Their reply...
End of discussion.

Thats a classic!

Drum

Yeah, they're real big on customer service after the sale! In fairness the hunt was just as they said it would be. But I think they could be a little more helpful in this matter.

mrlexma,

Why do you think that would be a bad move?
I feel that if he had intended to be professional, honest and fair he would inform his clients, before starting work, what his fee would be. After talking to another of his muskox clients and learning that he was "a bit shocked" when receiving an invoice, again after the work was done, only leads me to belive that this is the way he does business. Which I find to be anything but professional, honest and fair. The bottom line is I no longer trust him, I did once, which I now realize is my mistake. In the end its only horns and hair, its not going to change the experience of the hunt. I don't have to have them.

Mark, what I am suggesting is that one upsmanship will just get you pregnant as well as screwed. Then you'll have to face that "when does life begin" thing and that's not one that a musk ox, fleshed or mounted, will be able to help you figure out.

Make a deal or not. But if you want to make a deal, act like a reasonable person and be willing to spell out and stand by your logic.

If you want to win a debate, then go for it and kiss your trophies good bye.

quote:

Yeah, they're real big on customer service after the sale! In fairness the hunt was just as they said it would be. But I think they could be a little more helpful in this matter.

Are you pissed at the outfitter or the taxidermist? It seems that you are railing on the outfitter and in my opinion that would be the wrong place to vent your anger. I dont mean to pour salt in your wounds but you should have contacted the taxidermist before he ever started on the work and received a quote from him for what you wanted done. The outfitter gave you the names and numbers of 3 different taxidermists. It seems to me that his job was done unless I am missing something. If so please let me know what I have missed.

Drum

Mark,

My wife I had a great safari to Africa in 2002. Along the way, and thereafter, I had some unexpected and negative experiences. First, I got stuck with paying a bribe to the police to have confidence (at least sort of) that my rifle case would be on my flight home out of Joberg. Secondly, when I wired money to Africa to pay for the freight, the banks took more than I expected in fees and the payment was insufficient. I had to send more money, paying the same fees a second time. Thirdly, my taxi went broke and out of business with my work still raw or partly done. I lost 4 figures in prepayment and my best impala hide. But by conscious choice, my wife and I decided to get over each of these incidents and savor the great memories of the hunt. I have never looked back nor regretted this decision. Now that I know more, I might be able to avoid making the same mistakes twice. Along the way, disappointments happen to us all.

I only recall these disappointments in reflection upon reading your story of your experiences and the dialogues that have followed on this thread and an identical one over on 24 Hour Campfire.

When one falls in the shit, that is what one smells until it is washed off and you leave it behind. Pay the bill, forget the expense, get the trophies mounted and let them remind you of the great trip that you said you experienced. Go for the memories that you created, preserve and enjoy them every day as you view them on your wall. Bury the rest.

You know the other alternative.

Marv

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Yeah, they're real big on customer service after the sale! In fairness the hunt was just as they said it would be. But I think they could be a little more helpful in this matter.

Are you pissed at the outfitter or the taxidermist? It seems that you are railing on the outfitter and in my opinion that would be the wrong place to vent your anger. I dont mean to pour salt in your wounds but you should have contacted the taxidermist before he ever started on the work and received a quote from him for what you wanted done. The outfitter gave you the names and numbers of 3 different taxidermists. It seems to me that his job was done unless I am missing something. If so please let me know what I have missed.

Drum

Oh, don't get me wrong I think the taxidermists is a CROOK and is taking advantage of this situation. As to the outfitter I think they could have offered to look into it but didn't. Instead they pretty much blew me off and forwarded my e-mails to the taxidermists. Did I have a good hunt, yes, I don't think I've ever said I didn't.

As to trying to contcat the taxidermists, I did, more that once. We played phone tag for several weeks, I left more than on message on his phone. I do recall getting through to him once and he said if I'd call back, said he was on his way deer hunting. When I tried later that evening I got his machine.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Mark, what I am suggesting is that one upsmanship will just get you pregnant as well as screwed. Then you'll have to face that "when does life begin" thing and that's not one that a musk ox, fleshed or mounted, will be able to help you figure out.

Make a deal or not. But if you want to make a deal, act like a reasonable person and be willing to spell out and stand by your logic.

If you want to win a debate, then go for it and kiss your trophies good bye.

I guess your rigth its time to stop pissing and moaning. I can get ripped off and pay the guy or I can tell him to go to hell and get ripped off. Aint life fun