Thanks to all you fine gentlemen for an enlightening discussion.

By all indications, for good or bad, I suspect the "Internet" shall provide direction in this area, along with viable options in regard to distribution costs and marketing strategies. I read, just the other day, of groups working towards scanning the entire spectrum of "the written word" for Cyber availability.

Bill Stewart,

I take your silence as an indication that you do not wish to make a contribution to supplement Mr. Nyschen's retirement income. As an alternative, would you consider diverting revenue from your own book to him?

"Ian had twomajor problems with getting paid- One was the royalty cheques took an average of 4 months to get here- if you then want to get them to a bank outside the country you have to jump arround and find somebody who will take them out and bank them for you - before they go stale.If you bank them locally- you get 1/3 to 1/4 of the actual value - less the US$10 than the banks here charge for accepting a cheque. Ian actually managed to get a US$2500 in his hand from two complete printing runs of the book ( the first 1000 sold out quickly and the second run of 3000 has been out of stock for a while.)"

I'm not defending Ludo Wurfbain -- he is capable of doing this himself -- but something is wrong if Ian received only $2,500 from the sales of 4,000 books. I don't know what the retail price of each edition was, but if the first 1,000 sold for $70 each, he would have made $7,000. If the 3,000-copy trade edition sold for, let's say, $35 each he would have made another $10,500. Let's face it. Zimbabwe's fiscal problems are not a publisher's concern. Couldn't Ian have arranged for the payment to be made to a South African bank?

"Ian did buy a pile of books and sell them himself- probably got more money from that than from Ludo- which is also why he's sore- as the book is now out of print."

Forty percent (the standard discount for booksellers/authors) will always be better than an author's 10% royalties. Despite what authors believe, writing a book is not the hardest part of the publishing process. Writing (for professionals) certainly has fewer risks than publishing.

"African hunting writers union and a standard contract. Promote it throught the various Ph organizations like PHASA and TPHA. Maybe the Outdoor Writers of America already has one. Then if Ludo doesn't like it he can write his own books."

Ludo Wurfbain's contracts are similar to others in this niche market. His royalty payments are made quarterly, I believe, which could be why Ian complained his payments were taking four months to reach him. Trophy Room Books pays as sales are made, I'm told, but seldom goes into second and third printings.

"If you take the 4,000 books Ian sold and multiply it by the $70 selling price of Ian's book then Safari Press got US$ 280,000 from Ian's book alone. Ian apparently got US$ 2,500. The publisher has lots of costs like office space, hiring copy editors, and publishing and distributing catalogues. And the book might not sell at all and then they would have a loss. But writing is the essential and hard part of the book. He got less than 1 per cent of the gross. That's why alot of people are going to self publishing but then of course self publishers have to develop the distribution and that is the hard part. If you don't do a good job there you end up with a garage full of books."

If 4,000 of Ian's books were sold at $70 each, his royalties would have amounted to $28,000 if every book sold at $70. Authors get 10%, not 1%, of the retail sales of their books. In addition to the costs you've mentioned, there are warehousing and fulfillment (shipping, handling orders) costs and the 40% - 50% discounts retailers receive. A rule of thumb in publishing is that the retail price should be five to six times actual costs of producing a book. This is needed to yield a profit after the many costs and risks the publisher takes. One hell of a lot of books wind up gathering dust in boxes stacked ceiling to floor in warehouses. The authors lost their royalties but the publishers lost out-of-pocket cash on those books.

BillQ

Dear BillQ,

I hope your heart is good. I enjoy winding you up.

VBR,


Ted

"Dear BillQ, I hope your heart is good. I enjoy winding you up. VBR, Ted Gorsline"

Hi Ted.

As a matter of fact I was in an emergency room getting "converted" until about an hour ago. I am plagued with a disease called chronic atrial fibrillation. When my heart rate reaches 90-100 bpm, my electrical system goes bonkers and my heart races erratically and rapidly -- sometimes 200 to 300 bpm -- while my blood pressure drops ridiculously low (it was 64 over 40 when I got to the ER today). This damned thing hits me five or six times a year. The ER doctors zap me with an electrical shock and send me home with blisters on my chest and back. I take heavy doses of medicine to keep from getting a stroke during one of these attacks.

Enough about that stuff. I love our discussions. In this case, I think Safari Press has been getting a bad rap.

Bill

Bill, I agree. It's one thing to say that so and so didn't make any money, or made too little money, on such and such book. It's quite another to say that his publisher screwed him.

If anyone wants to make "real money" on a book, he had better spend his time cooking up a good thriller, with a plot better than Dan Brown's latest, hire a good agent, and make the NYT best seller list.

Hell, if he wanted to, an aspiring best-selling author could set his spell-binder in Africa, while the principal characters are on safari.

"Hell, if he wanted to, an aspiring best-selling author could set his spell-binder in Africa, while the principal characters are on safari."

Unfortunately, "safari" means something entirely different to the majority of the world's readers. I doubt that mainstream publishers would give Hemingway's and Ruark's hunting-based novels a chance today.

BillQ

Having recently re-read "Something of Value" I would say that there is no chance in hell that Ruark could find a mainstream publisher willing to put out such a non PC book.

Doug

You guys lack imagination.

Just make the hunter the bad guy.

It's been done.

Bill, Ian's Problem was the lenth of time the mail takes- and then not having the option of actually geting the money into a bank where you can get its face value. I remember him throwing a cheque for $250 at me that had just arrived- It had a week to go before it expired. Ian had no choice but to bank it locally - so for a $250 cheque I think it worked out he actually got $47.50.

At least if he bought books with his royalty payments and got them sent out he could sell them for US cahs at the full rate. Also, being elderly, Ian could not ( and still cannot ) keep up with our multiple exchange rates and relating wads of money to worth (see my currnecy calculator post). I see see it with my folks- they really have no idea- and each week I tell my dad what the price of a peny weight of gold is at the black market rate and he can then correlate tha a packet of nails that used to cost sixpence and is now $4 million - still only costs six pence in gold terms.

Mind you, it is not just Ian that is sore- Sten Cedegren had the same problem, Brian Marsh complains bitterly etc. John Northcote - who's book was published by Helen at Trophy room books- was able to make a plan to have his royalty cheques sent to his daughter in the UK. Technically that is illegal, and Ian had no such option unless the publisher was prepared to help. - which is why the three or 4 books comming out of Africa in the near future are going to African Hunter, Rowland ward or Trophy room books.

Hello Ganyana

It seems to me that Safari Press is being bad-mouthed because of Zimbabwe's horrible inflation rate, slow mail delivery, and screwed-up banking system. Did any of the authors you mentioned attempt to have payment made elsewhere?

Bill Q

Hi Bill

Short answer- It is not just Zimbabwe- All African countries have financial problems- Brian Marsh got well stiched on the royalties for "A man called Lion" when the cheque ( eventually) arrived and he banked it in south Africa and the rate had jumped from R14 to the US to R6 to the US.

Electronic transfers seem to cost alot from US banks to UK banks - which is where most of the old hunters have 1st world account ( if they hold such a thing)- and some publishers are reluctant to do a transfer for relatively small ammounts. Also- It is very difficulat for many African Residents to open a US bank account. In 2000 my US bank sent me a leeter and cheque for all funds in my account explaining that, since I was a Zimbabwean- they really didn't want my money. Last year at Reno, alot of PH's were trying to find a new bank since three big US banks wrote to their african clients and told them to take their loot elsewhere!

That said- If you want repeat trade, or the new, quality books that are comming out of Africa, the publisher needs to have a plan to keep the authors happy! After all, we are a very small community, we are not American, and do not do things or business the American Way.

Ian Nychens and Richard Harland have been helping old Willie De Beer with his book- Willie was my tutor for my PH licence and knows more about shooting problem elephant and lion than just about any man left alive- He was scalped by the lion that killed Len Harvey ( len was aprks officer on Honeymoon in Hwange NP at the time!), and survived three other severe maulings. Been there done that. He will proably go with Rowland Ward or Trophy room books...

Leopard tales, is a brilliant book ( have read the first ten chapters- waiting for the rest) mainly on leopard and getting leopard hunting with dogs going by one of (in my opinion) the top two leopard PH's arround. Wayne talked to a few folks - like Sten and African Hunter got the book.

A lad who used to work for Ludo - doing what you do, is Ghost writing Clem Coetsee's book- For RW.

So, yes. The African Way of doing things and postal service has been a major cause of the bad Press for Ludo - but he hasn't helped himself. TRB is far more accomodating on the payments system- but will not republish if the book proves to be a good seller! you are stuck with 1000 copies only. RW? I like Jane Halse. She runs a good show but is so backlogged with books that she cannot aford to publish... she has at lead a dozen waiting to go to print. Send her a book and it may be two to three years before it appears...

None are perfect, but the merrits - or lack there of, of the variowsu publishing houses has been widely circulated!

Hi Bill

Short answer- It is not just Zimbabwe- All African countries have financial problems- Brian Marsh got well stiched on the royalties for "A man called Lion" when the cheque ( eventually) arrived and he banked it in south Africa and the rate had jumped from R14 to the US to R6 to the US.

Electronic transfers seem to cost alot from US banks to UK banks - which is where most of the old hunters have 1st world account ( if they hold such a thing)- and some publishers are reluctant to do a transfer for relatively small ammounts. Also- It is very difficulat for many African Residents to open a US bank account. In 2000 my US bank sent me a leeter and cheque for all funds in my account explaining that, since I was a Zimbabwean- they really didn't want my money. Last year at Reno, alot of PH's were trying to find a new bank since three big US banks wrote to their african clients and told them to take their loot elsewhere!

That said- If you want repeat trade, or the new, quality books that are comming out of Africa, the publisher needs to have a plan to keep the authors happy! After all, we are a very small community, we are not American, and do not do things or business the American Way.

Ian Nychens and Richard Harland have been helping old Willie De Beer with his book- Willie was my tutor for my PH licence and knows more about shooting problem elephant and lion than just about any man left alive- He was scalped by the lion that killed Len Harvey ( len was aprks officer on Honeymoon in Hwange NP at the time!), and survived three other severe maulings. Been there done that. He will proably go with Rowland Ward or Trophy room books...

Leopard tales, is a brilliant book ( have read the first ten chapters- waiting for the rest) mainly on leopard and getting leopard hunting with dogs going by one of (in my opinion) the top two leopard PH's arround. Wayne talked to a few folks - like Sten and African Hunter got the book.

A lad who used to work for Ludo - doing what you do, is Ghost writing Clem Coetsee's book- For RW.

So, yes. The African Way of doing things and postal service has been a major cause of the bad Press for Ludo - but he hasn't helped himself. TRB is far more accomodating on the payments system- but will not republish if the book proves to be a good seller! you are stuck with 1000 copies only. RW? I like Jane Halse. She runs a good show but is so backlogged with books that she cannot aford to publish... she has at lead a dozen waiting to go to print. Send her a book and it may be two to three years before it appears...

None are perfect, but the merrits - or lack there of, of the various publishing houses has been widely circulated!

Ganyana,

There just might be a "slight" difference in the motivations of those that write books and those that publish books.

There must be few that could realistically expect to make a living from writing African hunting books .... Capstick, Boddington, etc.

And how in the world could you write a hunting book every year or two in the first place, unless one is hunting non-stop, and if one could afford to do that there would seem to be little reason to be trying to make a living from writing books! If one is writing hunting books non-stop, much must be made of little it would seem to me.

"Getting it down on paper" was my motivation and if I break even, great. If not, it is okay too. I suspect that this might be others motivation also. If Ian made "no money" the first time, why should be be bothering to try to publish another one?

Publishers take rough drafts, massage them into fancy, well laid-out, slick-paper works. They take risks of printing, editing, advertising, etc, as you know. But there are limits to how much people will spend for a book with a micro-sized audience (African hunting).

To make money, the writers should have all been Ann Coulter.

quote:

To make money, the writers should have all been Ann Coulter.

And have her looks and sharp mind and tongue!

12 June 2006

A Word from the Publisher.

I am not in the habit of discussing how much money our authors make. However, Ian Nyschens’ agent recently asked us to add up all we had paid him in royalties for Months of the Sun. Ian made a great deal more in royalties from us than is stated here--even taking the highest number. In addition, Ian bought hundreds of copies of the book from us at wholesale price, which he then resold at a profit, as he should have.

The original printer of Ian’s book went bankrupt and the negatives were lost, but we are busy typesetting it so it can be reprinted. It is an all-time classic.

Yes, I once offered Ted Gorsline a contract for a bear book; he did not like the terms, so I said fine. As far as I know, the book was never published.

Ted Gorsline sent in a contribution for African Hunter II with pictures that were totally ink-smudged. And I do mean totally--large, fat ink smudges on each picture. He had used a fountain pen to write captions on the back of each picture and stacked them like pancakes immediately instead of waiting to let the ink dry. Ink dries very slowly on photo paper. I told him immediately that we could not use the pictures and asked him for new ones, but he refused, saying it was too much work. Copies of the correspondence are still in our files. No pictures, no story, no contract, no payment. Pretty straight forward.

Hunting books get sold for what the market will bear. We sell many books below $30.00 retail and some below $20.00. But we also sell a lot of books for $100 on up. It all is a matter of production costs, print runs and potential for sales. The smaller the potential audience for a book the higher the retail price. Try and go buy an academic book, or see what they want for a college or university book these days.

I totally agree with Ganyana that making payments to Africa is a huge mess. But publishers in the US can hardly be blamed for Zim being reduced to the stone age by Mugabe. Anybody living in Africa and doing business with the first world should consider having an account in the UK, US or RSA. There is no getting around this. We send checks as a standard course of royalty payments but if an author requests it we will wire it. Yes this is a more expensive way of doing things, and no we do not control the bank fees.

A final word on author’s royalties. The simple truth is that the market for hunting books is small and the market for African hunting books is smaller still. Hence the relatively high retail prices. We have published about 225 titles in the 21 years we have been in business. Our best-selling titles (over 40,000 copies in print) have not been authored by any of the people mentioned in this discussion. They also are not on African hunting. However, all books get promoted equally & in exactly the same manner: on our website, in our catalog, at trade shows, and all are presented to the bookstores. All of our titles are produced with quality in mind. It should be obvious that a book on West African duiker hunting will sell fewer copies than a book on whitetail hunting. If you really want to make a fortune writing a book, do not even think about hunting--try writing something like the Da Vinci Code.

Ludo Wurfbain

Publisher, Safari Press

Bravo, Mr. Wurfbain, for your candid reply.

And it's great to hear that Months of the Sun will be reprinted. I have not yet read it, and am looking forward to it.

As I implied above, there are simply not enough of us Africaficionados to make best-sellers of even the best-written and most interesting of African hunting books. No matter how good they may be, the memoirs of an African hunter will never compete in terms of sales with the latest Dan Brown or Tom Clancy thriller.

So, thanks and kudos to you for providing us with reprints of the classics and the regular publication of interesting new titles, and best of luck for continued success.

So someone ratted this discussion out to Safari Press!

Even if Ludo didn't opt to carry my book, I have no hard feelings.

I am happy that everyone gets in their point of view. Go Ann Coulter!

I did not say that one cannot make a good deal of money on an African hunting book. One of our African hunting book authors put one of his kids through college on what we paid, no not Harvard. But it is hard, not easy. Hell, for that matter try writing a novel. You are lucky if the publisher will (a) print it in hard cover and (b) if the print run is 2000 copies. At an average HC retail price of $24.95 figure out what you will earn, keep in mind that 30% to 60% will be remaindered. Yes, believe it or not most hunting book authors at Safari Press do quite a bit better than that.

Welcome Ludo- good to have you here- It is always best if all parties to the discussion are present!

Also, will has a point- motive for writing...Many of the old time hunters see their memoirs as a "retirement package". Most have a story to tell, but very few can tell it in such a way as to become a classic. Be interesting to know how many books like the 'memories of a vagabond hunter' or 'Barron in Africa' ever make a second print run?

The only people who will ever make any money from hunting books are people like Craig Boddington because he is in two or three magazines a month posing beside the body of a beast and has thus, over time, has become a brand name.

I am sure there are formulas to determine this kind of thing. So much space, over so much time, in magazines with so much circulation, thta have an audience that makes so much a year.

Allegedly such books help you to sell safaris but I am not even sure that is true. About two years ago Wolfgang Robert wrote a book mostly about hunting with me. It was the best selling hunting book in Germany that year. He sold 5,000 copies but it has not resulted in a single booking.

The people I meet at hunting shows who have read it tend to be people who can afford to buy books, and not the people who can afford to go on safari. There is some overlap but not much.

Word of mouth is what gets you safari bookings.

For the average Ph there has been no money in hunting books at all. But that might change. The key is distribution and the internet might enable the thing work without having to go through a publisher.

"The key is distribution and the internet might enable the thing work without having to go through a publisher."

Hi Ted:

As in anyting in a capitalistic world, the key is sales. It doesn't matter if it is done on the 'Net or through a publisher's efforts. The best product (book) ever produced is nothing until someone sells it. Unfortunately, authors usually aren't salesmen.

Bill

Dear Bill,

I suppose that is true. Salesman seem to be the most important people in any company. Getting someone to give you money for goods or services is the hard part but you have to reach them with an offer and that is distribution.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for this interesting discussion from actual participants in the industry and the differing points of view.

Both books (Vagabond & Baron) sold in a limited slipcase edition of 1000 copies (sold out) and both went through a trade edition, which means a hard cover and a dust jacket. The trade edition of Baron is near sold out, about 70% of the Vagabond trade run is sold out. A PH by no means can expect to sell 5000 copies of a book if he writes an “I started hunting when I was 7 and shot my first cockroach with a catapult at that age…†type of biography. However, a decent biography will sell 2500 copies on up. Again much depends-- PH’s fame, quality of photos and writing, overall physical appearance and price point etc. It must be said that the market is fairly densely packed with PH bios at the moment. Keep in mind quite a few never make it beyond 1000 limited editions if that. Some of those ltd edn bios published in the early 1990s are still for sale!

I want to make one more point about what Ganyana said earlier about one of the authors he mentioned having a very hard time getting his money in Zim. I will not mention the author’s name but he has been a 20-year friend of my wife and I. He had the bad fortune of having his royalties paid via an agent here in the US. (He was talked into this by a friend.) The agent was in NYC and the agency was huge and had to comply with all sorts of money laundering rules and foreign wire regulations. Long story short the delay of payments between NYC and Zim was so bad that eventually I begged the agent to let us pay the author direct, which we accomplished after 2 years of haggling. The correspondence up and down from the author, Safari Press and the agent as to where the money was could fill up the trunk of a small van. I am not panning agents, but stick with one that is small and knows our industry and has experience getting money overseas without red tape. Hunting books do not warrant Hollywood-style glitter agents, never mind what they cost in commissions to the author.

I like to ask Ganyana in what way he feels Trophy Room Bks is more flexible in making payments to Zim authors vs. Safari Press. We try and do what we can to accommodate the authors.

Finally I will say this. Authors face a dilemma, either publish with a US publisher and have good access to the North American market or publish in Southern Africa and have good access there. I feel SP is the dominant publisher of African big-game hunting books because we have done a better job of covering both markets than anybody else. Note I did not say a perfect job, just a better job. Selling from the US to Africa is not easy, selling from Africa to the US is harder still. Ever since 9/11 the cost of harbor fees and therefore transport has gone up tremendously. There is not a good solution in this matter. It will be interesting to see how happy the Zim authors are 3-4 years hence with the distribution originating from there. Time will tell but I have a pretty good inkling it will not be all that is expected if recent results are anything to go buy.

Ted,

You are wrong to say people like Craig Boddington are the only ones who make money on hunting books. Kevin Robertson, never wrote but one small book in his life before The Perfect Shot, and did pretty good with that I should say. We are now finishing his second, Africa’s Most Dangerous, (Cape buffalo) and the back orders before the Nov 06 release are tremendous. There are others who sold enormous quantities of books, I am not going to mention them because I do not need more competition. But here is a hint: it takes thinking outside the box! One more book on whitetail weather tactics or bear bites is not going to do it. But the old rule still applies, a mediocre effort begets mediocre sales.

Ludo,

Thanks for joining the conversation. It helps to hear both sides of the story.

I also wanted to say that over the years I have bought quite a few books from Safari Press and found the strong majority of them to be excellent. Keep up the good work!

Hi Ludo- Ellen at trophy room books has a deal with somebody local. She banks the USD into their account and they go round and give the author his royalty money in green cash or suitcases full of local money as the fellow wants.

Thanks for the info on how well those two particular books are doing...As you know, both authors are personal friends - but one never hears much discussion about those two titles. It re-inforces my opinion that limmiting oneself to a 1000 book print run is shooting yourself in the foot- if the story is worth the telling anyway.

I am still looking for a copy of the book that started this thread. Thanks

Wybynman,

Best I can tell you is to back order it from Safari Press, it will be out again this winter. Go to our web site. I bet by now 2nd hand copies are very expensive. If you see a first edition, blue cloth in slipcase (signed/numbered) and it is $250.00 or less, buy it!

Mr. Wurfbain,

Any chance you will consider publishing the 30% that was edited out of the author's draft of the book?

Wbyman

Also put in a request with Trophy Room books and Baobab books to look for you if you want a first edition. Baobab found one for me and Trophy Room Books called about a month later with a copy.

CFA

quote:

Originally posted by wbyman:
I am still looking for a copy of the book that started this thread. Thanks

I have a mint condition trade edition available.
$125.00.

500grains

Another ugly rumor. We used the entire MS that was given to us on disk, although I am personally of the opinion that there are sections that are a bit repetitive we left them in. Surely we took out a word here and there but something like 0.3% is more like it. The current edition we are working on was completely proofed by Ian again and he did add a very little here and there for clarification etc. I reread the book the other day and still think it is one of the best books on African hunting of the last 50 years. But I am biased.

Ian and I discussed getting the book on an audio CD set and he really wanted me to use a woman from the UK for the voice but she was not interested.

I have also thought about making a text only softcover that could sell for 24.95 to 29.95 as more of a mass market product for people to read in planes. So far we have not gotten any further on this.

Great having people like yourself on board.
Hope you'll visit often.

before you sign a book contract with Ludo show it to someone who knows the business. Otherwise what happened to this poor unsuspecting elephant could happen to you.

Ted is right, before you sign any contract get with a person who has done it and been there. Few authors get shot with a 416 though!

In this exchange, for those keeping score:

Wurfbain: 1
Gorsline: 0

Ted, find a new tune to whine to.

Good God, this is turning into the "Penetration on Elephant" post.

Shoot this damn horse, and bury it!