Gun owners get reprieve
2009-06-26 14:24

Pretoria - More than one million South African firearm owners who have not yet re-applied for their licences were given temporary reprieve by the High Court in Pretoria on Friday.

Judge Bill Prinsloo granted an interim interdict to the SA Hunters and Game Conservation Association, declaring that firearm licences obtained under the old Arms and Ammunition Act will be deemed valid for the time being.

The interim order will remain in effect pending the final outcome of the association's application to have certain sections of the new Firearms Control Act declared unconstitutional.

The association contends that Schedule 1 of the new Act, which deals with transitional arrangement, is unreasonable, infringes on the rights of firearm owners and is unconstitutional.

It also maintains that the SA Police Service is unable to cope with the flood of licence applications and firearms being handed in for destruction.

The deadline for either re-applying or handing in firearms was June 30.


- SAPA

Does anyone know where the full text of the interim interdict can be found?

Gerard
Carel from the collectors association was only expecting to get a full copy on Monday as the interdict was passed at end of play today.
Ian

I wonder what happens now to all those firearms that were handed in to the cops?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I wonder what happens now to all those firearms that were handed in to the cops?

Serious firearms collecters with good friends in the cops gets first choice on selecting what they wish to retain. To make the numbers balance any piece of 3/4" waterpipe with a mechanism that looks like it could [dangerously] fire a 12 ga shotgun shell is given a punched in number, a name is also punched in and exchanged for the Purdy, or Dickson or whatever with the same name and number. The waterpipe is melted down: The Purdy goes into a collection.

I say this as I was the benificiary of such a gun that was handed in long ago in terms of another "amnesty" and which I, through a collecter friend, exchanged for a total piece of crap to be melted down!

But as I said before, the ANC does still [mostly] does things like a terrorist orginization! On this one I have to wait and see as my firearms-collecting friend now lives in Europe.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Eishhh......... I'm probably the only bloke in SA that'll say this, but it might be a royal pain in the arse for me as in all fairness, I guess I'll have to offer my man his Dickson back!

Added,

Yee hah! gave him a call and he still wants to go ahead with the deal.

A lot depends on the exact wording of the urgent application and the interdict that was granted. It may be a case of "what is done is done" and only those who have not done, or are still wanting to do may be affected. But all is speculation until the full judgement can be seen.

quote:

Pretoria, 26 June 2009.
In a judgement handed down in the High Court today, Judge Bill Prinsloo granted the SA Hunters & Game Conservation Association the interim relief applied for in their application which sought: "4.1. A declaratory order that all licences of firearms mentioned in schedule 1 of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No. 60 of 2000) be valid until such time as the main application in this application is ruled upon. "4.2. That this order shall be an interim order pending the final adjudication of the main application in this matter."

Source

From Schedule 1 of the Act:

Existing licence to possess an arm.
1.(1) Subject to subitem (2) and item 11, any licence which was issued in terms of the
previous Act and which was valid immediately before the date of the commencement of
this Act, remains valid for a period of five years from the date on which this Act comes
into operation, unless such licence is terminated, cancelled or surrendered in terms of
this Act.


This is all that is available so far.

I've had emails from SAGA and PHASA today but they don't say much more than has already been stated here......... guess we'll have to wait a few days to find out exactly what it'll mean in the longer term.

SA Hunters and Game Conservation Association
Conservation through Sustainable Utilisation

PRESS RELEASE - Firearm Licenses

The SA Hunters and Game Conservation Association (SAHGCA) is glad to report that on 26th June 2009 the Northern Gauteng Division of the High Court granted an interim interdict against the Minister of Safety and Security confirming that firearm licenses which were issued in terms of the “Old” Firearms Act (1969) will be deemed to remain valid until the main application has been finalised.

The interim interdict was granted pending the outcome of the main application, which will determine the constitutionality of the transitional provisions contained in the Firearms Control Act (Act 60 of 2000). The Court will have to decide whether the constitutional principles in respect of the protection of private property, the principle against criminal prosecution as well as fair administrative procedures had been complied with.

SAHGCA made a valuable contribution to ensure that thousands of South African firearm owners will not be criminally prosecuted for the illegal posession of firearms after 30 June 2009.

The judgement is a victory for law abiding firearm owners. During the Court application

insufficient proof was given that legitimate firearms (and in particular hunting firearms)are being used during the commissioning of crimes and that the possession of such firearms should be restricted.

SAHGCA and the SAPS are founder members of the Hunters Forum and will continue to work with the SAPS and the other accredited hunting associations in a constructivemanner to implement the provisions of the Firearms Control Act. SAHGCA will, on behalf of legal firearm owners continue to insist on effective and fair administrative procedures.

SAHGCA thanks its attorney, Mr George Nell as well as Advocate George Diamond and Advocate Bertus Bergenthuyn (SC), the management of SAHGCA and every member who made this positive judgement possible.

The joining in the application of the Professional Hunters (PHASA) as well as the SAFirearms and Collectors Association also strengthened the case. The collaboration with other accredited hunting associations and the SAPS on the Hunters Forum enabledSAHGCA to assist in the protection of the hunting industries’ interests.


In short the judgment means that:

Existing old “green licenses” (issued in terms of the Firearms Act of 1969) will remain valid until finalisation of the main application, and cannot be criminally charged for the illegal possession of such a firearm;
It is no longer necessary to apply for Section 21 – temporary authorisations;
Storage permits which are valid until after 30 June 2009, will remain valid until itsexpiry date;
There is no reason to hand firearms in at the SAPS for safekeeping or destruction before or on 30 June 2009;
If a firearm owner has not applied for the re-licensing of his firearm such application can still be done if the applicant was ill, or outside the country or had not submitted renewal applications due to circumstances beyond his control, and pending the fact that he can convince the SAPS that his reasons are compelling enough for them to receive his renewal applications late.
Consequently legal firearm owners may posess and use their firearms until the mainapplication has been decided and the “old green licence” will be sufficient proof of the legal possession of firearms.

SAHGCA thanks all its members, outside institutions and individuals who have made substantial contributions to the Associations’ Legal Aid Fund.

Don't ya just love the way this thing is being run by the Govt, SAPS and the gunshops.

I just drove into town and on my way in, they were interviewing a cop on the radio. He said, if you've handed a firearm into SAPS, you can reclaim it for the time being at least. I got to one of my smaller local gunshops and they showed me a SAPS release that says if you've handed it into the cops, you can't reclaim it.

Then the guy in the shop told me if someone has handed firearms into him (at the shop) he won't give it back unless they buy it from him (non refundable deposit), apply for a new licence and wait till it's approved before they can collect their own firearm.

Talk about Fred Karno's army.

Steve,
As usual the cop does not know what is going on (he is only half right) and the gunshop does.

The implications of the interdict is clear: The only people affected are those who still hold a valid license issued under the previous Act and who have or have not applied for relicensing under the new Act. If you no longer hold a license, having handed the firearm in, traded it to someone else or a dealer, what is done is done and the process you have embarked upon will continue to run its course.

So the cop is wrong when he says you can get your property back if it has been handed in for destruction. The license is cancelled and the gun is gone. If it is in storage with them, pending an application done by someone who has taken it off your hands, you can collect it but it does not stop the process.

If you gave it to a dealer and your license has been cancelled, the gun belongs to the dealer.

If you sold or gave it to someone else and they have applied for a license, the process continues and the gun is gone if the new license is granted. If the new license is refused, you may still be able to recover ownership but this is not clear yet.

Below is the text of an analisys of the interdict from SA Hunters:

"On Friday 26th June 2009, the North Gauteng High Court, Pretoria, issued an interim order pending the finalization of the main application in that all firearm licenses contemplated in sub-item 1 of Schedule 1 of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No 60 of 2000) (hereinafter “the Act”), will be deemed to be lawful and valid, pending final adjudication of the main application.

This effectively means that where a person is in possession of a firearm and relevant license, permit or authorization, issued in terms of the Arms and Ammunition Act, 1969 (Act No 75 of 1969) (hereinafter the “previous Act”), as amended, such a person will remain legally in possession of such firearm and may not be prosecuted in terms of section 3 of the Act. In terms of section 3 of the Act no person may possess a firearm unless he or she holds a license, permit or authorization issue in terms of the Firearms Control Act, 2000), for that firearm.

The main effect of the order is that persons (natural/juristic persons) who have not yet re-licensed their firearms as provided for in the transitional provisions of the Act, or have not yet disposed of the firearms as required by the Act, may lawfully remain in possession of those firearms after 30 June 2009, at least until the main application has been decided.

In the case where firearm owners have already opted to dispose of their firearms through deactivation, permanent exportation, voluntarily surrendered to the South African Police Service for destruction, or by selling/donating the firearm to another person/legal entity, such administrative processes related thereto must continue.

All firearms that have been voluntarily surrendered to the South African Police Service, for the purpose of destruction, will not be handed back to the original firearm owner.

Any person who opted to sell/donate their firearms to other persons/legal entity, and who in the meantime have surrendered such firearms for safe keeping to the South African Police Service, may retrieve (if so desired), their respective firearms and firearm licenses from the police stations where they were handed in.

In the case where a legal owner (seller/donor) has applied for a temporary authorization to possess a firearm in terms of section 21 (transitional period) of the Act, the respective Designated Firearms Officer must continue with the administrative process and issue the temporary authorizations. The firearm together with the firearm license, permit, authorization and/or the temporary authorization must be handed to such legal owner.

All storage permits issued for firearms in terms of the previous Act will remain valid until the expiry date of such permit. Further storage permits (SAPS 539) may be issued in terms of Regulation 86(4) of the Firearms Control Regulations, 2004, for a further period if required.

All firearms which are currently in safe storage with licensed firearm dealers and gunsmiths will remain valid and need not be handed to the South African Police Service for destruction.

In the case where a person applied for the renewal of his/her firearm license and such renewal application has been refused and/or the appeal has not been successful, such person may legally continue to possess such firearms in terms of the previous Act."

Thanks Gerard,

I'm helluva glad they won the case, at least temporarily and let's hope they win it permanently.

My closest gunshop is only a little place but they seem to be pretty jacked up and they reckon the case will be finalised in a few months......... personally, I'd have thought it'll take a lot longer than that, but time will tell.