Hi I need some advice about transporting ammo for a pending trip to ZIMB

Does ammo need to be transported in metal case? Will a peli case will be fine I have at the moment a pelicase 1120

Does the 5 kilogram limit apply to ammo ot ammo including metal casing?

I have flown many times with single shotgun for competitions however not with a rifle for hunting purposes with 60 rounds of ammo

Thanks

real life experience please

Both my strom cases are all olive green in colour and I am going to ZIMB

Is that a problem?

I heard in UK Bisley that any thing "military look" are not allowed.

I have even bought "NON green" clothing in order to accomodate this restriction but I dont fancy buying 02 new peli cases if I can get away with it.............

londonhunter

londonhunter;

Last August my husband and I hunted in Zim...so my info is that old:

1. Ammo weight...is an airline restriction. So check with the airline. However, all the airlines that we have traveled on with ammo (and we have had them weighed by the airline) do not count the container holding the ammo, simply the ammo in original boxes.

2. British Airways, American Airlines, SAA and Air Zimbabwe did not require us to have ammo in anything except a locked hardcase (that can be your suitcase if it is a hardcase). Since we travel with duffels, we put the ammo in a plastic box built for shotgun shells...it weighs very little and 2 containers will hold the 5 kilo restriction.

3. Our Tuffpak gun cases: one is black the other green...this was not an issue and I think the "military look" applies to military type cammoflauge clothing. We hunt in dark green, which all our PH's thus far prefer compared the khaki or tan colored clothing.

FWIW: Our non-hunting traveling companion did undergo a thorough luggage inspection upon arrival in Harare. They even checked the gun magazines she was carrying...so I simply suggest don't carry anything that would imply military business or connection.

Unless things change in the interim...go to Zim and have a great time.

Regards, D. Nelson

The ammo needs to be in a container that seperates every round from every other round, so you can use manufacturers packaging or MTM cases or similar. - Then most UK airlines including BA require that it be further packed into a lockable box..... not necessarily metal, but locked. Weight of ammo and 1st packaging should weigh no more than 5 Kgs. - I don't know of any requirement for colour of rifle cases and doubt there is any. - I'm sure Ganyana will comment on that though.

More importantly, how are you getting to Zimbabwe with firearms? The UK has an embargo and won't let you travel there with firearms. You can get away with travelling to SA and clear the firearms through customs and then re-check in with your firearms to zim. I don't know if that is actually permitted with the Brit Govt or not....... perhaps you could check with BASC and let us know.

BA require that you give them at least 3 days notice of travelling with firearms.

BTW, I hope D. Nelson won't my correcting the statement about ammo weight. It's not an airline imposed restriction. It's imposed by international treaty and applies to all commercial airlines. In the case of flights out of the UK, it's the Air Navigation - Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act of 19whatever. - The airlines are legally bound to apply the weight restriction

I have ordered a storm case to carrying the ammo. 60 roudns of 416 rigby will exceed the 05 kilogram limit.

I am booked for an elephant culling trip and in total the herd I am informed consist of at least 25 TWENTY FIVE -

We are booked to fly direct to Harare but the double and ammo will go to Jberg and a local PH will travel north by car with our guns. My hunting partner is coming from India and is bringing a pair of 465 H & H double

Thanks for all the advice so far and please keep them coming

My rifle is a Merkel Double 140a chambered for the 416 rigby and I have changed the open sight into what more commonly found on an english double.

I have been practising 05 - 10 rounds per week for the past few weeks and I am getting 02 inches shooting 50 paces (yards) from a free hand standing position.

I have also ordered 100 rounds of solid federal 400 grains in UK with similar batch number to avoid any variation.

Have I missed anything to date?

Londonhunter

I usually fly BA to Africa and my experience has been very positive.

You will need 2 seperate tickets to get around the EU firearms embargo against Zimbabwe but you being a UK citizen might cause further problems that would be worth investigating.

When I check my ammo on BA from the States I do not need a seperate lockable case to contain the ammo and factory packaging. Check on this one.

Your green clothing is fine and recommended. As long as it is not military camo you will have no problem. I also think your green gun cases are a non-issue.

Hope this is helpful.

Mark

Hi my turn I suppose

I travel to Italy every 07 - 08 weeks training in Brecia since my dicipline is Olympic trap.

I find the best time to travel is when Italy is playing an international football game. in 02 years I have been waved past twice without the police even taking a look at our guns

So check the football schdule when you travel to Italy it really helps and dont arrive after the result if they are playing against England............ha boys

Sorry please ignore the last post cut and paste on the WRONG bloody forum

MORAL

DO NOT DRINK AND SURF

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hi my turn I suppose

I travel to Italy every 07 - 08 weeks training in Brecia since my dicipline is Olympic trap.

I find the best time to travel is when Italy is playing an international football game. in 02 years I have been waved past twice without the police even taking a look at our guns

So check the football schdule when you travel to Italy it really helps and dont arrive after the result if they are playing against England............ha boys

That's funny, I saw the same things in Brazil. If football was on then there were just one or two very harried people working at customs and immigration stamping passports as fast as they could to get back to the telly.

As far as people not drinking and surfing, if the rest did that, traffic on this site would slow to a crawl.

More on the ammo delimma, tho not necessarily helpful. I too am flying British Air to get from the USA to SA and after reading the BA website info on flying with guns and ammo found myself a bit confused over what they wanted (at least what was printed) and fired off a couple of eamils to BA asking for some clarification and all that happen was thta I got email replies referring me BACK to their website or calling their customer info numbers which is what I did after the 2nd non helpfull email. Well so I call and spoke with a BA rep from their Florida office and was told I could travel with my under 5 kg limit of ammo IN the same case as the rifles OR carry it in my other checked bag in its factory packaging. NO mention was made of a separate lockable case in the other checked bag and I SPECIFICALLY asked that question of the lady. Also told of the 3 day notification rule and I've already done that part and checked on it twice since I made the notification to them. What I think happened is when I explained why I was calling and what my questions were is that the lady rep paused, and then simply went to their own BA website and paraphrse as SHE understood what was written their ( I could hear multiple key taps in the background whiel I was waiting and think thats what she was doing). At this point Im still not sure what or where Im gonna place my ammo when the trip time comes. Probably the best way to be prepared is allow extra checkin time and have that other smaller lockable case I can stuff into my wheeled duffle if thats what the ticket agent at the BA counter wnats. And of course have all the printed regs from TSA, BA and SAA with me in case I have to talk/argue my way thru this. Ah such fun!

Get them to put it in writing and take that hard copy with you when you travel.

Willi,

Are you using Gracy Travel as I advised? They will provide you a copy of the confirmation from BA that you notified them of carrying guns 72 hours out. Put the ammo in factory or factory like boxes and stash it in your duffle. It won't be a problem (Famous last words). Really! It has never been a problem. They have always checked to see if the ammo was in the duffle rather than the gun case.

Relax!

Mark

Londonhunter,

This hunt is definately too complecated for you. Cancell it and let me know and I'll take over the elephant cull for you and there will be no charge.

465H&H

Mark,

I have confirmation from BA that they know about my rifles. I'm at the SEATAC airport tomorrow for a passenger pickup and will be headed to the BA ticket counter and check with the"onsite" agents who I'll probably be dealing with in May when I leave for my trip and plan to ask lots of questions from them on the particulars of ammo transport as they see it. While not perfect (will be my luck to get the new ticket agent they hire just before I leave), at least I'll have a better feel for what they want here in SEATAC.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
We are booked to fly direct to Harare but the double and ammo will go to Jberg and a local PH will travel north by car with our guns.

Have I missed anything to date?

You might like to check on those transfer arrangements for your rifles. I assume you mean someone else will collect them at JIA and drive them to and across the border......... Getting someone else's rifles into RSA and out of the SA border without the owner might cause a few problems. I'm not suggesting it can't be done, in fact I've never looked at that part of the new act, but if it is possible, it'll need an awful lot of paperwork and I'd guess most of it would have to be done well in advance.........

Which firearms courier are you using to send the double from London to Jo'burg? - You'll also need a different to normal permit to get the rifle into RSA if you're not accompanying it.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
I have ordered a storm case to carrying the ammo. 60 roudns of 416 rigby will exceed the 05 kilogram limit.

Are you weighing the case as well? When I weighed my .416 Rigby ammo it didn't come near that. A Norma .416 case weighs 337 grains, bullet 400 grains, powder 98 grains for 2.39 pounds per box.Switching 5 kilograms to pounds you are good for 93 or 94 .416 cartridges and still make weight. In my particular case it means that I can haul 3 boxes of .416 and 48 rounds of .375 H&H to Zim in July. You can kill a lot of elephants(or anything else) with that much ammo.

I've always worried about the limit, but I've never had anyone check the weight of my ammo. In fact, I can't promise I've every weighed it, and I suspect I've been over on the limit a few times. Has anyone ever had an agent actually weigh their ammo. I get asked and I just say it's under 11 pounds.

quote:

Are you weighing the case as well? When I weighed my .416 Rigby ammo it didn't come near that. A Norma .416 case weighs 337 grains, bullet 400 grains, powder 98 grains for 2.39 pounds per box.Switching 5 kilograms to pounds you are good for 93 or 94 .416 cartridges and still make weight. In my particular case it means that I can haul 3 boxes of .416 and 48 rounds of .375 H&H to Zim in July. You can kill a lot of elephants(or anything else) with that much ammo.

That brings up another question, how may grains are there in a pound?

Here's the deal on ammo to SA. I went last year, and am going back April 27. You DO NOT want to put your ammo in the same case with your rifle. That violates South African firearms law, no matter what your airlines ticket agent tells you. Put the ammo in factory boxes in a hard case with a small padlock on it in your duffle and you will be ok.

TSA DID WEIGH my ammo on departure from Shreveport, La. I carried a Sharps 45-110 and 80 rounds of ammo. 5 kilos IS the limit, and I would have been over weight at 88 rounds. I bought a digital scale specifically to weigh the ammo. Both TSA and American Airlines said that it would be ok to put the ammo in the gun case, and I did. It may be all right to put ammo in a gun case in the U.S., but not over there. To say that it hit the fan when the gun and ammo got to South Africa is an understatement. If I had not used Air 2000 for my firearms permits, my rifle might still be over there. Air 2000 does a fine job, and is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

There are 7000 grains to a pound.

quote:

I am booked for an elephant culling trip and in total the herd I am informed consist of at least 25 TWENTY FIVE -

quote:

my discipline is Olympic trap

Londonhunter - Just consider it as another round of trap and try to shoot a "straight 25".

Be careful though, any miss on the cull could have slightly different result than trap range as the trumpet will be blown by elephant instead of the referee.

I've had my ammo weighed once, but I was right at the limit. On that trip I had a buddy along with only one light rifle, he carried a couple boxes of mine on his 5 Kilo quota.I've also had my wife along as an observer, she got to carry 5 kilos for me as well. Even when I've been held to the limit it's been far more than enough.

Just an update further to comments made here and advice and this outfit cannot assure me that this hunt is bonafide I have cancelled all my arrangements.

Now I have to find a use for this double..........

Sounds like a good excuse to go hunt some Buffalo!

The cull sounds interesting. Who is it with and where in Zimbabwe? Am just interested as it is not normal practise to have paying clients or laymen on an elephant cull. Also am not aware that the National Parks department have issued any cull quotas on elephant yet this year for Zimbabwe.

Hi Londonhunter, I think that it is probably a good thing to make very sure you know whether your PH is registered or not. Unfortunately there area few PHs out there who have no interest in conservation and are just there to make a quick buck and are not bothered about how they do it. Like Mukango, I find it quite interesting that Zim are allowing people other than parks or experienced PHs to be involved with culling! As for clothes, as many people will thell you, just make sure you dont use light colours around elephant, colour doesnt really matter much I would think.