Of course there is a ton of COVID floating around third world countries, it's because first world countries are so worried about their own numbers they are not sharing vaccines with those who need it the most. As long as so many in the world don't have access to being vaccinated how can we ever manage these global cycles of increasing/decreasing caseloads? So simple, but leave it to politicians across first world countries to miss the fucking forest for the trees.

With vaccines, boosters, and soon the "pill" COVID will become very manageable in the U.S. Will there still be deaths due to it, of course... but is it the "big unknown" it was, NO. Blame it on the 24 hour news cycles who constantly look for something to scare us with...

How can 10% of passengers from RSA have covid when they tested negative prior to departure?

Oh, covid tests were fake.


But what about having to be vaccinated?

Oh, the vaccine records are fake.



It's not just Africa. It's the entire third world.

May be rough for awhile in the travel and tourism industries.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Absolute killer for us! On the positive side, at least this did not happen early / mid-season and while we may lose the shows let's hope like hell we have some sort of solution for the 2022 season to go ahead. The alternative does not even warrant thinking about!!!

Yep, looking forward to hunting Nyakasanga this coming August. Hopefully the bans etc. clear up by then. The 64,000 question is whether the airlines will still fly to Zimbabwe.

The ban does not apply to US citizens so if I can fly there, then I will be there.

For perspective, I just watched the Ken Burns weekend special on ‘Baseball’. Now I may have this a little wrong (meaning the year), but they said in 1906, 22+ million people died of the flu! Come on man…..

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Of course there is a ton of COVID floating around third world countries, it's because first world countries are so worried about their own numbers they are not sharing vaccines with those who need it the most. As long as so many in the world don't have access to being vaccinated how can we ever manage these global cycles of increasing/decreasing caseloads? So simple, but leave it to politicians across first world countries to miss the fucking forest for the trees.

With vaccines, boosters, and soon the "pill" COVID will become very manageable in the U.S. Will there still be deaths due to it, of course... but is it the "big unknown" it was, NO. Blame it on the 24 hour news cycles who constantly look for something to scare us with...

I agree with what you are saying . However , remember what happened to the malaria pills and mosquito nets provided by Bill Gates. How would the people react to vaccines and/or pills?

I have no doubt that the Omicron variant is already everywhere, including the USA. It takes weeks for science to catch up with these mutations.

And if we’ve learned anything, it’s that travel bans do not work.

The only things that work are vaccines, and, until they are vaccinated (and for some even afterwards), self-quarantine by the elderly, the immuno-compromised and those with co-morbidities.

Shutting down travel in the face of this thing is sheer idiocy.

I wonder what’s going to happen with booth refunds for the exhibitors if the shows still go ahead. I imagine quite a few of the remaining exhibitors will be doing a rethink as there will be a drop off in attendance.

I am not convinced the shows will be cancelled. I can envision a number of quite reasonable scenarios where conducting a convention, even a much smaller one, may be financially better than cancelling . For example, a contractual obligation to pay full price for the venue even if the convention is cancelled. Under this hypothetical scenario ANY revenues generated would help offset the cost.

I can think of several .

I hope they happen.

I believe according to the DSC website you pay for your booth or lose it, maybe Karl can confirm? At any rate I would love to go but with 95 percent of the people I want to visit with not in attendance I will stay home and work. If I was closer, it would be much easier to attend a smaller show.

Already have the tickets for DSC. I do wish to visit some firearms and optics vendors so if the show goes on that will have to suffice. Already booked for 2022 for Africa so planning for 2023 will have to wait. Also wanted to talk to some Argentinian vendors and they should be able to show up. I will make lemonade of lemons if the show goes on.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am not convinced the shows will be cancelled. I can envision a number of quite reasonable scenarios where conducting a convention, even a much smaller one, may be financially better than cancelling . For example, a contractual obligation to pay full price for the venue even if the convention is cancelled. Under this hypothetical scenario ANY revenues generated would help offset the cost.

I can think of several .

I hope they happen.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Gale Johnson:
I believe according to the DSC website you pay for your booth or lose it, maybe Karl can confirm? At any rate I would love to go but with 95 percent of the people I want to visit with not in attendance I will stay home and work. If I was closer, it would be much easier to attend a smaller show.

Gale, I think you are right about the booth policy on the website, however, many exhibitors had their booth deposit/payment carried forward from this past January, not sure how that will work once again if the show is cancelled or greatly curtailed due to restrictions not allowing exhibitors to attend. I can’t see any circumstance where DSC (or SCI) would penalize exhibitors who are unable to attend. I think a more worrisome result of another cancelled or poor show is that it would force quite a few good overseas outfitters out of business. Most of us have outfitter friends and know how hard this past year has been on many of them. SCI’s “Share the Impact” initiative helped a lot, but they couldn’t help every deserving outfit and these outfitters really need a good show season and hunters in camp, I hope something happens that will allow this to happen.
Outfitters are between a rock and a hard place, their fixed costs keep on going regardless if they exhibit or not, one outfitter friend told me right after the travel ban was announced, that they had just paid over $100K in fees. I’ll bet those fees won’t be returned if they are unable to market their hunts. Other friends have said they won’t be coming and still others have said they are waiting until the last possible moment to make their decision. Non-refundable hotel payments are due mid-December, that might make up some exhibitors minds if the travel ban hasn’t been resolved one way or the other. Maybe DSC and the hotels can see fit to delay room payments for a few days to help overseas exhibitors a little bit?
The DSC Convention Chair is on AR and maybe he can give a clearer answer. Pretty sure he would have seen this thread but I’ll send him a message.

Very sad indeed.

Got many messages of friends who normally pass through here on their way to the States.

Everyone is heart broken about this.

There should be no question that whoever has paid in advance for anything should be able to carry it forward to a future date.

This is the only honorable thing to do.

If some enterprise does otherwise and charges those who are unable to come due to this, they should be named and shamed.

And I hope they get boycotted in the future.

We were talking about clients before who were unable to go, same thing here.

Maybe some of you saw the field in Ann Arbor after the Michigan win over Ohio State yesterday. There were over 100,000 in the stands and at the game's conclusion there had to have been 50,000 on the field, going absolutely bonkers. Talk about a potential super spreader! Point being we are OVER all this BS. Unfortunately the media and government elite worldwide either don't get it or have a different agenda. Any info available on this latest variant indicates very mild symptoms. That old saw, "The cure is worse than the disease" is certainly applicable here.

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Maybe some of you saw the field in Ann Arbor after the Michigan win over Ohio State yesterday. There were over 100,000 in the stands and at the game's conclusion there had to have been 50,000 on the field, going absolutely bonkers. Talk about a potential super spreader! Point being we are OVER all this BS. Unfortunately the media and government elite worldwide either don't get it or have a different agenda. Any info available on this latest variant indicates very mild symptoms. That old saw, "The cure is worse than the disease" is certainly applicable here.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/27/...outh-african-doctor/

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Maybe some of you saw the field in Ann Arbor after the Michigan win over Ohio State yesterday. There were over 100,000 in the stands and at the game's conclusion there had to have been 50,000 on the field, going absolutely bonkers. Talk about a potential super spreader! Point being we are OVER all this BS. Unfortunately the media and government elite worldwide either don't get it or have a different agenda. Any info available on this latest variant indicates very mild symptoms. That old saw, "The cure is worse than the disease" is certainly applicable here.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/27/...outh-african-doctor/

It's difficult to opine on the severity of this variant yet, given how fresh (to science) it is. Its likely been in circulation for weeks prior to the "discovery."

While everyone is going wild over positivity percentages and how quickly these new variants spread, the real number the watch remains the hospitalization (and more importantly, ICU utilization) numbers. I've coordinated the whole COVID crisis for our surgical practices in 5 states from day one. After the first wave, the remaining variants had very little impact on our states (and subsequently, our practices). The terse bottom line is that the herd was thinned in round one. "Healthy" and young individuals DO continue to get sick and die from this, but not at alarming numbers.

The fact does remain, however, that the likelihood of hospitalization and adverse events IS significantly higher among the unvaccinated. I'm not turning this into a vaccine debate, but its statistically represented. (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm)

I still plan to attend SCI if it does go off. I'm hopeful this travel ban peters out in a month when the numbers don't support it. We saw similar with Delta.

Could anyone answer one fact and that is, Can viruses mutate in vaccinated host?
It seems even as vaccinated, you can get infected , you will just have milder form
Could virus work harder to mutate in vaccinated host?

My whole point is, nobody addressed this yet ( especially virologists and epidemiologists )

I am sure it does.

But I would assume in a much weaker form.

Viruses mutate during replication within the host cell. Being RNA based, viruses are more prone to un-checked mutation than DNA based cells. So if you are infected, vaccinated or not, your cells replicate virus. Vaccination allows your body to recognize and attack the virus, which would limit the amount of time it has to proliferate and replicate within your own cells, cutting down on the likelihood of replicating a mutated version of itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am sure it does.

But I would assume in a much weaker form.

When viruses mutate, the outcome is random. It is just that random mutation that codes for increased virulence that is the problem.

Mutations certainly can occur in vaccinated folks as they do become infected and some virus replication takes place. Albeit, the rate is likely greatly lessened than that from less immune who allow for a bigger “crop” of replicated virus.

No data to suggest that vaccinated hosts select for virulent mutations that I am aware of…totally random and based in numbers.

https://africa.businessinsider...om-2-african/wegb5c7

https://www.travelnews.co.za/a...babwe-zambia-pax-ops

Gues we can't get there anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
https://africa.businessinsider...om-2-african/wegb5c7

https://www.travelnews.co.za/a...babwe-zambia-pax-ops

Gues we can't get there anymore.

First article reads that you can GET there. You just can't get BACK.

The bad news continues.

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon.Gleason:
...

First article reads that you can GET there. You just can't get BACK.

I don't know if Buzz would be willing to put me up until flights BACK resume again.

Got A email from DSC THEY will 100% refund or role over to 2023... I am sure SCI will do the same. The problem is we need to market and get their.

The bad news does stink but for me as long as the planes fly I will be doing my 3 hunts june and july to SA and namibia. I do hope this will blow over faster now that we have been through it already before

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Got A email from DSC THEY will 100% refund or role over to 2023... I am sure SCI will do the same. The problem is we need to market and get their.

In regards to marketing. Couldn't the outfitters that have US reps have those reps man the booths and also conduct Zoom meetings with the PHs etc. at the show?

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Got A email from DSC THEY will 100% refund or role over to 2023... I am sure SCI will do the same. The problem is we need to market and get their.

Do you have a client who might man a booth for you?

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
My family physician told me about this variant last week and told me we should get a booster (not Pfizer) and said even though CDC is not reporting, covid cases are increasing around airline hub cities (Atlanta, DFW, Seattle, New York, etc) due to increased international flights and some expect a spike around mid-December. Not good news for upcoming conventions. I suspect the US will follow suit.

Was your family physician talking about this variant? It was only uploaded to GISAID on the 23td of November, so only really known since then. Maybe a few close to the action knew about it a bit earlier, but can't have been more than a few days.
An increase in cases around airline hub cities could simply be explained with new cases coming in and causing new clusters much more frequently than in cities without airports.

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
My family physician told me about this variant last week and told me we should get a booster (not Pfizer) and said even though CDC is not reporting, covid cases are increasing around airline hub cities (Atlanta, DFW, Seattle, New York, etc) due to increased international flights and some expect a spike around mid-December. Not good news for upcoming conventions. I suspect the US will follow suit.

Was your family physician talking about this variant? It was only uploaded to GISAID on the 23td of November, so only really known since then. Maybe a few close to the action knew about it a bit earlier, but can't have been more than a few days.
An increase in cases around airline hub cities could simply be explained with new cases coming in and causing new clusters much more frequently than in cities without airports.

The concentration of cases around hub cities can also be attributed to the increase in travel for the holidays. Many people were preemptively testing prior to going to see family. Not that it changes the actual infection rate, but it does skew the curve from "normal."

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have plans to go to Switzerland next month.

In restaurants they require one to have their vaccination app to eat indoors.

They accept vaccinations from other countries, and one has to enter the details to get accepted in the Swiss app.

Got mine approved today, and the approval lasts for o e year since my second vaccine.

You can trust the Swiss with being organized like that. But Switzerland also implemented 14-day quarantine restrictions for people from a few European countries where cases of omicron have been found, and they will likely just keep adding countries. So keep your fingers crossed no cases pop up in UAE!

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Absolute killer for us! On the positive side, at least this did not happen early / mid-season and while we may lose the shows let's hope like hell we have some sort of solution for the 2022 season to go ahead. The alternative does not even warrant thinking about!!!

I think by spring cases will come down anyway. The hunting season should be fine, it's just the case to get the booking without possibly being able to travel to States.

Israel has closed its border to foreign travelers.

. . . I have a special holiday wish for the Chinese but I should probably leave it unsaid.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . I have a special holiday wish for the Chinese but I should probably leave it unsaid.

Isn't the Xi variant what we've had since Day One?

[/QUOTE] Was your family physician talking about this variant? It was only uploaded to GISAID on the 23td of November, so only really known since then. Maybe a few close to the action knew about it a bit earlier, but can't have been more than a few days.
An increase in cases around airline hub cities could simply be explained with new cases coming in and causing new clusters much more frequently than in cities without airports.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if he was referring to this variant or not but since DFW is a major hub it made sense to me to follow his suggestion.

So government bureaucrats are again going to shut down the planet in response to a variant that seems to be dangerous to less than one half of one percent of the population. Was it Mark Twain who said "Common sense ain't so common"? It's here, it's going to stay, and we need to get on with life.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Could anyone answer one fact and that is, Can viruses mutate in vaccinated host?
It seems even as vaccinated, you can get infected , you will just have milder form
Could virus work harder to mutate in vaccinated host?

My whole point is, nobody addressed this yet ( especially virologists and epidemiologists )

Milan...I was vaccinated 3 months ago, and got sick / tested positive for Covid 19 - 3 weeks ago...its all a scam / joke / train wreck, and has been since day 1. As to your specific question, IDK...but I doubt ole Fauci does either!?

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have plans to go to Switzerland next month.

In restaurants they require one to have their vaccination app to eat indoors.

They accept vaccinations from other countries, and one has to enter the details to get accepted in the Swiss app.

Got mine approved today, and the approval lasts for o e year since my second vaccine.

You can trust the Swiss with being organized like that. But Switzerland also implemented 14-day quarantine restrictions for people from a few European countries where cases of omicron have been found, and they will likely just keep adding countries. So keep your fingers crossed no cases pop up in UAE!

The Swiss also recognize a prior infection to get a vax passport - something we in the US seem to ignore: https://www.zh.ch/en/gesundhei...ovid-zertifikat.html

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by boarkiller:
Could anyone answer one fact and that is, Can viruses mutate in vaccinated host?
It seems even as vaccinated, you can get infected , you will just have milder form
Could virus work harder to mutate in vaccinated host?

My whole point is, nobody addressed this yet ( especially virologists and epidemiologists )

Milan...I was vaccinated 3 months ago, and got sick / tested positive for Covid 19 - 3 weeks ago...its all a scam / joke / train wreck, and has been since day 1. As to your specific question, IDK...but I doubt ole Fauci does either!?

My whole point is that blaming virus on unvaccinated seems BS