I view the USA as a lawyer's haven. You mess with me, I'll sue you.
My RSA friend (Gerhard) had a factory bullet performing (to say the least) with overload symptoms.
Should he creep into a corner and beg for mercy, or should he take Winche**** head-on with reports from his gunsmith etc. etc.?

If this were SA conditions, my advice would have been "do not try to fa*t against thunder", but American industry is known for its excellent quality, customer service and legal sensitivity.
What do I advise Gerhard to do?
Lochi.

Lochi,

You need to give us more details for any sort of meaningfuil advice.

Did he fire a Winchester factory load that was grossly overloaded?

What was the rifle it was fired in?

I have seen factory ammo shot in rifles with very tight bores that blew the primers every time it got fired - regardless of what make one used.

Details please, the more the better.

I've spoken to Gerhard this afternoon. The shot was fired out of a Sako hornet. The extractor is cracked, the case could not be extracted, the head was blach, he cannot tell me excactly what the primer was flat and the primer melted where the firinf pin struck it. This surely looks to me like a factory fault. Before he fired the shot he shot 3 PMP rounds at a jackal target and all three was in the heart area, the faulty bullet was very high up in the back.

Lochi,

First, the alleged victim needs to prove negligence. Putting too much powder in the cartridge is an example of negligence.

Second the victim needs to prove damages. It sounds like he will have a gunsmith bill, but no physical injuries.

The ammo maker will defend by attempting to show that the customer was negligent. For example, they may argue that there was an obstruction in the barrel, or that the ammow was permitted to become overheated before use, or that the rifle had some sort of defect, or that the customer was using reloads and is falsely stating that they were factory ammo.

Unless serious physical injury occurred, it would not be worthwhile for anyone to pursue litigation. However, the ammo maker will probably try to make things right with the customer in order to preserve their reputation.

I had that happen (almost exactly as described), to a Win M70 375 H&H. I was shooting Remington Safari Grade ammo, with the 300gr Swift A-frame.

I complained to Remington, and they requested that I send them what remained of the offending cartridge and the rest of the box of ammo for inspection.

In the end, Remington re-imbursed me for the box of ammo and paid for the gunsmithing bill to install a new extractor, inspect the firearm (headspace, bolt lug setback), etc.

I thought it was fair under the circumstances. Had there been an injury involved, I am sure it would have gotten ugly.

Cheers,
Canuck

It all depends. Does your friend seek reasonable recovery for damages to his rifle, or is he just trying to cut some fat hog in the a$$ for unearned profit?

So is this lawsuit idea seen as a profit-making venture, or simply as a "fair and just" recovery effort?

If it's the later, OK. If it's the former, I suggest that he stay home. We have enough predators at large in our courts already, and believe me, the arms and ammuniiton companies have entire legal departments at their disposal that would likely prove to be more than a match for any legal counsel your friend could hire......

AD

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, Lochi asked me if I would register and tell you what happened to me.

I have a Sako 22K Hornet with a Riihimaki action. I use this rifle for predator calling for jackal. I was busy sighting in the scope with PMP reloads. I use 46gr Winchester HP ammunition for my hunting. I am still in the process of fire forming the Winchester cartridges. To confirm that the scope was correct I planned to shoot a grouping of 5 shots with the Winchester ammo, on the 4th shot powder and smoke blow back into my face and eyes. This gave me a very big fright.

I could not move the bold of the rifle back more than tree quarters of the way and the empty cartridge was stuck in the chamber.

I immediately took the rifle to a weapon smith.

Now my problems now started because the bold had be taken apart in the action, it looks like the extractor is cracked because this is such and old action from Sako we could not find a new extractor.

I really need your advice on what to do. We are starting our prime predator calling season and I really need the rifle quickly.

Jakkals (Gerhard)

Firing factory ammo in a K hornet chamber, shooting reloads and factory ammo? No case. I know, I know, that is how you form cases by shooting hornet rounds in the K chamber, but you have made MAJOR modifications to the rifle and you are shooting more than one type of ammo. But in the legal world, you are on your own. You viloated the safety warnings on the box! And you have the onus of proving that it was the factory that screwed up, not you. How can you do that? And just what are the damages? i understand that you need your rifle now, but your actual damages are very small (and liekly self-inflicted anyway). It would cost you more to fight this than it is worth. If all you need is an extractor, have the gunsmith keep looking. There is one out there some where.

He would be well advised to fix his rifle as no real damage was done..there is always a lot more to these tales of woe than meets the eye..it's just not worth the grief involved to go the litagation route IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Jakkals:

I really need your advice on what to do. We are starting our prime predator calling season and I really need the rifle quickly.

Jakkals (Gerhard)

I recommend that you immediately contact Winchester with a written explanation of the events, plus pictures of the rifle, damage to the rifle, extracted case and unfired ammo. And add in the Lot number for the ammo. This will undoubtedly take months to resolve, so you may wish to select another rifle for this current predator season. Winchester will probably try to make this right with you. Litigation is not the way to go because the economics involved do not justify it.

Best wishes.

Jakkals,
Welcome to the Board 'tho regret the circumstances that brought you here.

You have the best advice already: forget about litigation. Send off an explanation with photos to the ammo manufacturer directly with a copy to your importer of the ammunition, and wait to see what happens.
Regards, Tim

Listen to 500 Grains.

Thank you for the response.

I will send a letter to Winchester and explain to them what happened.

Unfortunately for me out South African gun laws does not allow me to buy a new rifle. I will only get a license in a minimum of 12 to 24 months from now. I am busy speaking to a few gunsmiths for a solution.

Regards.

Jakkals