Want to go in 2020. Minimum of 7 days, max of 14. We (my lovely wife and I) are planning on hitting some sights after the hunt, like Victoria Falls, Mana Pools, etc. Or whatever is within a reasonable distance from our hunt destination.

Hunt budget in the $25,000 area. I don't care if the ivory makes the trip back to Indiana. Replicas will suffice, and are probably less of a headache for my daughter to dispose of when I pass.

Where to go? Tuskless looks interesting. Is there a big difference between a tuskless hunt and a bull hunt? How does an own use hunt in the more arid places of Namibia compare to a place like Zimbabwe?

I would like to do a traditional walk and walk and walk hunt. Hunting at night is probably quite exciting, but for my first, I'd like to stick to the daylight hours.

I'd prefer to be able to shoot other critters as well. Open to all ideas.

I'll take my .458 Lott or .416 Rem, and promise not to use any controversial ammo or bullets.

So, send me to Africa to shoot an elephant.

Jeremy

If you hunt elephant in Namibia it will probably be in the Caprivi Strip, not any dry area. Other good game to get in that area would be Red Lechwe, sable, and Cape Buffalo.

There are some great deals out there for a combo own-use elephant and buffalo hunt in the Caprivi.

I would recommend Wayne van den Bergh.
I've hunted with him twice, sent another gent to hunt, and all was fine.
Good trackers and camp staff, in Bulawayo as his home base, prices are reasonable, and he can take you north from his hunt area to Vic Falls. Great family hunt and vacation. I had replica tusks made but the bull's ivory is in storage in Zim.
Cal

Congrats on the plan.

If the budget for just the hunting part is $25K, you are probably not in the market for a trophy bull, but I may be surprised.

A non trophy bull hunt is a proper elephant hunt in that you are tracking a bull and assessing him to meet criteria then making the final stalk.

I haven't hunted Namibia, but Zimbabwe and Tanzania were both very similar in how my trophy bull hunts went- drive looking for tracks, find one, walk until you get a look at him and then turn him down- until the day. Then you go in and get close and hopefully get a shot.

Tuskless hunts are a bit different. There you are going in to a herd, making sure that it is a cow without a calf once you know its tuskless, then making a shot. From what I've been told, you often get run off the site by the herd afterwards for a bit.

I personally have little interest in a tuskless cow. However, I will grant you its a more dangerous and likely to give a PH gray hair hunt than a bull hunt.

The third category which is generally crop depredation animals is the hunt a border and hope to intercept or shoot. This will also be a short range quick contact type hunt

The second two hunts are definitely less expensive.

I would talk with some of the Zambian operators on their new tuskless hunts.

Zimbabwe has a long standing program of all three types.

Namibia has own use and trophy bulls. I don't know if they offer crop raiding type hunts regularly or not.

Zambia will likely have other types of game open, as will Zimbabwe in the areas you will hunt. However, adding much within your budget may be iffy. For instance, a buffalo will add $5K as a trophy fee alone in Zimbabwe. My experience is not Namibia, so I don't know there.

I know that Tanzania is trophy only, and with the recent poaching, not a likely spot to find a hunt- and the price is a lot higher than what you have.

I think South Africa is pretty much trophy hunting and probably out of your range for price. Add on species would be easy there, but not likely to be the same spot.

A non-exportable bull in the Caprivi is about the same price as a tuskless in Zim. And they are a helluva lot bigger if that matters..Done it twice and was mock charged by the other bulls both times.Getting a price on a hunt 2 years out might be tricky.

My budget might be movable, but I know that amount will be available to spend so that is where I'm starting. Additional animals aren't required, but if a smoker of a bushbuck ambles along, I'd like to have the option. I have seen some deals on tuskless/buffalo that might fit as well.

Postoak, thanks for the PM, and comments, I'll look into that option.

Cal, I read your recent hunt with Wayne. Quite the adventure. He seems to have deals come up often on AfricaHunting. Do you book direct with him? Were there other big game where you hunted, like lion, buff, etc? Not necessarily to shoot, but at least to photograph.

CRButler: Great run down of the differences. I didn't notice that Zambia started to offer tuskless.

Jdollar, who did you hunt with in Namibia? Ndumo?

Just trying to get some detail on the hunts available. It is great that there are options that offer different experiences.

Jeremy

Ndumo, yes. We flew into Kasane and after the hunt spent 3 days there visiting Chobe NP, then on to Vic Falls( hired a driver, took about 3 hours) for 3 days.

If this was 10yrs ago you would be OK but today you will be rolling the dice on a high risk hunt.This is if you are talking about a tracking hunt for a ele bull in a wild area.A tuskless hunt never really interested me.I always looked at a tuskless somewhat like a croc or hippo or a tiger fish-it's not the real deal.

PM Karl Stumpfe at Ndumo in the Caprivi. He'll set you up for the hunt of your life!

Give Mark Young a call. He works with several top notch outfitters that have what you are looking for. These types of hunts can be picked up for discounted hunts a lot of times.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:




Cal, I read your recent hunt with Wayne. Quite the adventure. He seems to have deals come up often on AfricaHunting. Do you book direct with him? Were there other big game where you hunted, like lion, buff, etc? Not necessarily to shoot, but at least to photograph.


Jeremy

I've shot elephant and plains game with Wayne but many species is avialable to hunt and to photograph. I book direct with him as I do all of my hunts. You can't go wrong with Wayne. Ask on AH for recommendations and it should be all positive.
Cal

I would suggest checking some Elephant hunting DVD's to aid your research. Craig Boddington and Buzz Charlton have produced excellent DVDs. I would also suggest contacting Buzz Charlton who is often on the forum

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
My budget might be movable, but I know that amount will be available to spend so that is where I'm starting. Additional animals aren't required, but if a smoker of a bushbuck ambles along, I'd like to have the option. I have seen some deals on tuskless/buffalo that might fit as well.

Postoak, thanks for the PM, and comments, I'll look into that option.

Cal, I read your recent hunt with Wayne. Quite the adventure. He seems to have deals come up often on AfricaHunting. Do you book direct with him? Were there other big game where you hunted, like lion, buff, etc? Not necessarily to shoot, but at least to photograph.

CRButler: Great run down of the differences. I didn't notice that Zambia started to offer tuskless.

Jdollar, who did you hunt with in Namibia? Ndumo?

Just trying to get some detail on the hunts available. It is great that there are options that offer different experiences.

Jeremy

Brother Jeremy have a look at the hunts offered forum and the Luangwa valley of Zambia has opened up tuskless and these hunts looked to be within your budget. I would have thought most would tack on a buffalo and the valley is famous for its concentrations of game animals.

Check with Mbalabala Safaris. Lin Stanton and his crew take quite a few ellies in Matetsi (Zim).

Very reasonable rates, IMO.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
A non-exportable bull in the Caprivi is about the same price as a tuskless in Zim. And they are a helluva lot bigger if that matters..Done it twice and was mock charged by the other bulls both times.Getting a price on a hunt 2 years out might be tricky.

I second this motion!!! Do an Own/Use hunt in Namibia.

Botswana may open back up by 2020.

For the Namibia own use, how hit or miss are they? I've heard that they can be somewhat water dependent on the Caprivi. I hunted north central Namibia. There were Elephant there as well, but they were extremely skittish.

Jeremy

Karl has 3 different camps, so dealing with seasonal movements is covered.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
Botswana may open back up by 2020.

Hoping or getting some new information ?

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
For the Namibia own use, how hit or miss are they? I've heard that they can be somewhat water dependent on the Caprivi. I hunted north central Namibia. There were Elephant there as well, but they were extremely skittish.

Jeremy

In addition to the 2 I hunted, I observed and videoed 3 more. All successful and never took more than 2 days. You have to remember than the eastern Caprivi is directly across the river from Chobe NP. The elephants in the overcrowded park just wade back and forth into the conservancies.

Tim V, I already have Boddington's set. I'll check out the CMS offerings. Didn't know they had them.

Boy, I've gotten a lot of great feedback here and through PM. Thanks. Have a few folks to contact still, and now have a longer than expected list of options. Pretty nice that there are so many reputable outfits in a variety of places. Also nice that a middle class clown from Indiana can afford something like this.

Cpt. P: Botswana is an interesting comment. It would be good if they did open up again. Not counting on it at this point. Technically, if I hunt the Caprivi, I'm hunting a Botswana elephant as Jdollar points out.

I really need to think about a cow hunt (either tuskless/management) verses a bull hunt. Which fits my dream if you will.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

As Biebs and Jerry has pointed out, we have 3 of our own areas and then also swap and make deals with a bunch of other guys around us. I have only ever missed one own use hunt elephant, but it has happened occasionally that we had to chance areas.

However, that being said, my Sobbe area has been pretty consistent in early season hunts (February to June) and very late season hunts, (15 to 30 November). Sikunga is best July to early November. Bwabwata only has trophy bulls, no own use bulls. It is important to note that we hunt elephants in the traditional way in our areas, by tracking them. A lot of elephant in the far eastern Caprivi are hunted on the floodplains, where you can see them 2-5 miles away. Although I have taken older, less mobile clients on such hunts, and also once a TV personality, I really do prefer the walk and stalk hunts that the bush of my own areas afford. You are welcome to drop me an email or PM, even if you decide to book somewhere else, I will give you my unbiased opinion. Good luck in the planning stage of your hunt! This is almost as much fun as the hunt itself...

Hi Jeremey

I will offer you a bull in Dande that I think will be in your range. From there I will be able to set you and your wife up with a trip into the most beautiful National Park in Africa - Mana Pools.

What I will tell you about this hunt is that it is a true hunt. It will be on close to 500 000 acres and you will track bulls for many miles in and out of herds of elephants and Jesse blocks. You will see tracking that will simply blow your mid away. You will also be able to hunt all plains game other then sable along your way.

Drop me an email on hunting@cmsafaris.com or PM me and I will send you a much more in-depth proposal. Cheers Buzz

Karl and Buzz, thanks. I'll get a couple of emails out to you.

We often lament that the good ol' days are gone, and there are certainly places where it would be nice to turn back the clock.

But, damn it is a lot easier to connect with good people of experience, and get in touch directly with professional hunters these days.

Even 20 years ago, I wouldn't know where to start to get something like this worked out. I'd get it worked out anyway, but it would have been a lot more bother.

If one can put politics aside, it is a good time to plan and dream. In the span of two days, I've got several weeks worth of leads and considerations to work through. Many have reached out, and I thank you all for your suggestions and help.

The only thing I already have set in stone for this trip are the rifles I'll take and the loads I'll use. Even though they are somewhat redundant, I'll take my .416 Rem and my .458 Lott. I built them just for this trip about 10 years ago, and after shooting a lot of paper and a few stumps with them, I'm looking forward to putting honest scratches in the wood and wearing the blue in places that tell the tale of how it was used.

Jeremy

+++1 on Buzz's DVDs. You will learn quite a bit about elephant hunting watching them. Will definitely educate you on: Differences between hunts for cows and bulls, hunting at different times of year, Zambezi Valley vs Northwestern areas. And there's some excellent, exciting hunts and footage.

I did a double tuskless in October 2012, in Matetsi. Since it was late season, there were a lot of elephants and we didn't get to TRACK as much as I would have liked. More often, we would spot a herd of cows, move in and see if there was a tuskless without a calf.

It was a great hunt, and sorting the herds was fun and exciting. We had to 'shout down' a couple of elephants, and shoot over one's head. That being said, a proper tracking hunt is a bigger experience, to me.

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Hi Jeremey

I will offer you a bull in Dande that I think will be in your range. From there I will be able to set you and your wife up with a trip into the most beautiful National Park in Africa - Mana Pools.

What I will tell you about this hunt is that it is a true hunt. It will be on close to 500 000 acres and you will track bulls for many miles in and out of herds of elephants and Jesse blocks. You will see tracking that will simply blow your mid away. You will also be able to hunt all plains game other then sable along your way.

Drop me an email on hunting@cmsafaris.com or PM me and I will send you a much more in-depth proposal. Cheers Buzz

Thats a done deal right there. Good one brother Buzz.

"WHEN" I chase Jumbo again it will likely be with one of the following who I have some experience with;
Buzz Charlton- Zambezi Valley or the flat Western Zim
Lyndon Stanton- Zambezi Valley or Western Zim
Wayne Vandenburg - Western Zim
Nyati Safaris - Mozambique
Karl Stumpf- Caprivi.

You must stipulate what you are after such as a daytime tracking hunt and Backup or not.

Oz, What do you mean by "Backup or Not"?

Tracking and daytime, I have noted. I'm not familiar with the other term you used.

Thanks for the list. Nyati is the only one I don't have. I'll look them up. Moz seems to be out of my wallet range though.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Oz, What do you mean by "Backup or Not"?

Tracking and daytime, I have noted. I'm not familiar with the other term you used.

Thanks for the list. Nyati is the only one I don't have. I'll look them up. Moz seems to be out of my wallet range though.

Jeremy

I think he is referring to the PH immediately firing a back up shot. This as much as price needs to be discussed.

I think a middle ground is best. Let me do it, but in your professional discretion if the PH thinks it is necessary please do what you must. I do not appreciate PHs who are all to happy to join in.

As to other methods of hunting elephant, I know in Namibia you can get it to a park boundary hunt. Where one drives the park boundary looking for fresh tracks coming out of the park followed up by a not always short stalk. Nothing wrong with that. Think bison hunts adjacent to Yellow Stone.

Everyone just needs to be up front and honest about what they want and what they offer (how they hunt).

I really wish you the best of luck.

But, by 2020 many things can change, including the price.

If you can tie up with a reputable outfitte - many are members here, you probably should.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:

Where to go? Tuskless looks interesting. Is there a big difference between a tuskless hunt and a bull hunt?

Jeremy

I will say the replicas of the tuskless will be cheaper than a bull hunt... couldn't resist.

I've only hunted cows in herds. Was my first DG hunting and maybe peculiar to start with. Very exciting. Hunting is always moving to me. This was more so than before, or since. It is Mar 2018. I suspect a lot may change by 2020 regarding destinations and quota etc. It makes planning tough. Look at what else you may want and possibly start from there i.e. what does the destination need to offer. If you want exportable trophy bull you need to consider what trophy quality is acceptable to you (and realise you might not send it home). I could comment on how I understamd bull hunts to be but guys who have done it will reply.

The different destinations can differ a lot with regard to hunting style. So consider for example if you want buffalo as well, how you want to hunt your buffalo. Spot and stalk herds like in the Moz swamps or even some areas in Zim or a dagga boy hunt in thick stuff etc.

Good luck. I think the planning will be half the fun.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Oz, What do you mean by "Backup or Not"?

Tracking and daytime, I have noted. I'm not familiar with the other term you used.

Thanks for the list. Nyati is the only one I don't have. I'll look them up. Moz seems to be out of my wallet range though.

Jeremy

I think he is referring to the PH immediately firing a back up shot. This as much as price needs to be discussed.

I think a middle ground is best. Let me do it, but in your professional discretion if the PH thinks it is necessary please do what you must. I do not appreciate PHs who are all to happy to join in.

As to other methods of hunting elephant, I know in Namibia you can get it to a park boundary hunt. Where one drives the park boundary looking for fresh tracks coming out of the park followed up by a not always short stalk. Nothing wrong with that. Think bison hunts adjacent to Yellow Stone.

Everyone just needs to be up front and honest about what they want and what they offer (how they hunt).

LHeym500 has it correct, Be aware of what Your PH does in this case. Some Detemine the action taken with the effect of your shot yet some will shoot on your shot.

Got it. I was thinking along those lines, but wasn't sure.

I could see that being very PH dependent. They know nothing of me, and only have a very short time to decide if I can get this done without losing my marbles. Something to discuss prior, definitely.

Saeed, Unfortunately, prior commetments and funding make 2020 my best option, at this point. Maybe that will change since there is a lot of time between now and then, but I want to get a plan now, and roll with it as time goes on.

Great stuff.

jeremy

One thing I was thinking about. There also seems to be different approaches or philosophies to elephant hunting.

It seems very dependent on the PH and the terrain the hunt is taking place.

Take Zimbabwe for example, western Zimbabwe is more open, mophane forest. Shots can be longer, but good phs can work in close. But it is a place where side brain shots and heart lung shots are more common. But if the ph likes to be aggressive he can force a front brain shot.

Step over and south to the Zambezi Valley and the contact distance shrinks. Frontal brain shots now become more common because of that contact distance and human-elephant pressure. If the ph is really aggressive in his hunting style you can tell him let's try to get side, but his style may create a frontal.

I love what Ivan Carter stands for when it comes to hunting. But I would not book an elephant hunt with him. His aggressive style creates frontal brain shots. That is fine if it is what you want. I would want a little less aggressiveness. Each to his own, just two points that you need to discuss as buyer and the seller needs to be honest with you.

Then you need to be as prepared as you can for the unexpected.

I strongly recommend Buzz Charlton's first elephant hunting DVD to see what I am talking about. I will send it to you for neophytes like me I think it is mandatory case reading.

Others know a lot more than I, but this has been what I have gathered/observed.

LHeym, I ordered Buzz's DVD's, I think on Wed. One came yesterday, and my wife and I are about half way through. Zambezi Extreme. A member here also graciously provided his hunt videos. Cool stuff, and the quality is great.

I've also got the Boddington video.

What you say about style is very apparent so far. On the Boddington video, Ivan is very aggressive,and the other PH's on there like Andrew Dawson are less so. Most of the shots are frontals, but there are a few side as well.

Buzz's video is much more slide in quiet, and take a side brain shot until the last bit on the video where they force the issue on purpose.

One thing that I noted right away is there isn't a lot of margin for error. Not many of these is a one shot deal. Most are keep shooting until you have nothing to shoot at, or it is really dead.

I also noted how, what I can only assume are experience riflemen, all of a sudden handle a rifle like it is the first time. Short stroking the bolt, not reloading, pulling the trigger on spent shells, etc. I'm thinking holy hell, shoot, shoot, shoot, but I'm on a couch with a fluffy goldendoodle in my lap. Yes, I have a doodle, great dog.

I mean no disrespect to these hunters. I'm just noting it to say, this going to be a lot of fun.

Jeremy

Glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. Yes a person can get caught up in the moment and do strange stuff with a rifle.

Fortunately you have time on your side and you can practice until it is second nature.

I practiced reloading my double quickly and it paid off. After I did a side brain shot and my elephant was down we got charged by another elephant. We ran up an embankment and was able to eventually shout it down and the herd finally disapated. Thankfully I didn't have to use my rifle again but I was ready because I practiced automatically reloading and didn't "admire my shot".

Any DG in bush can give you jitters, it is simply realization that you are insignificant
Practicing a lot helps, but be prepared for the unexpected as all the action at that right moment will be unexpected
Depends on areas, but be prepared or discuss it for sure with PH for follow up shots
Shit happens and there is no reason to lose game by being overconfident
After all, you hire professional for reason so hear and listen carefully and well

Agreed. Do everything you can to prepare yourself and work for a clean kill. Your PH is instrumental to your success but have a conversation with them about what will happen when things don't go according to plan.