The 'underated trophy' discussion made me think of asking this question: Many posting here and elswhere made me realize that an American whitetail deer is a really difficult critter to hunt. Makes me sortof think: "Wish I could get a chance to still-hunt one!" Is it impossible? Almost impossible? So let me ask a formal question:

If your favorite PH and his best tracker were to be put in the woods where you normally hunt, what are the chances of them doing a "walk 'n stalk" hunt on a good trophy whitetail deer, in 1,2,,,,,,? hunting days?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

My favorite Ph and tracker would score in one day with the given that someone would have to show them the track signature for a BIG whitetail buck. However I have seen some big racks come off of small hooves. As far as the tracking it would not be a problem any more here than in Zimbabwe. While habits of the game animal play a BIG part in locating the animals after you start on the track it really becomes that; a track. The Ghost Wolves track drug smugglers here in So. Az. for DEA. They are all native american trackers and I wouldn't want them after me. A GOOD tracker is a GOOD tracker and actually someone to really respect in my opinion. They absolutely awe me in Zim. We tracked an Eland in Zim once from 9am to 7pm and picked up the track the next morning at daylight and finally caught up to him at 2pm. The initial shot had hit a 1" mopane and had broken the leaft rear leg at hip. The two trackers actually tracked him THRU two herds of Eland. It was unbelievable. They get the big tips from me.The PH I hunt with, Theo Bronkhorst, is as good if not better than any tracker I've worked with in the 8 safaris I've made.

I think they could score on my farm here in Georgia, however getting a big buck would be lucky at best for anyone. Our season is about 3 months however ,the deer are often shot year round on neighboring properties and are very quick to run when approached. I would like to take some phs for a free hunt during the legal season if any are interested.

I´m pretty sure they could pull it off.

But we have so many whitetail here that hunting (culling) isn´t that much of a challenge.

But could they do it on a roedeer?

It'll be tough. I've spoken with quite a few folks with extensive world-wide hunting experience who've hunted everything from Marco Polo Sheep, elephants, down to dik-dik. Without question every single one has said the North American TROPHY whitetail is by far, the hardest animal to hunt in the world. They are practically nocturnal and the only time they lower their guard is during the rut. I am quite sure that african trackers and PHs given the proper information could no doubt track a whitetail, the problem s getting close enough for a shot given the impenetrable "jess" they like to live in. Given their sharp senses all around, my money's on the deer. jorge

It's pretty easy to shoot a whitetail. It's quite a bit harder to shoot a specific mature whitetail. Especially if it's on public land and he's been hunted a bit.

The answer would depend entirely on the area you are hunting. An open range, trophy whitetail hunted on the ground would present a far more difficult quarry than anything in Africa unless you were in an area saturated with them (let me know where this area is by the way). In south Texas which is similar to African bush, in an area with many deer, it could be done as easily as tracking a kudu. In the east, doubtful it would be done at all.

Ken Moody

Trophy Bucks - Eastern Woodlands:
Keep the PH ... give me the African companion. Once adjusted to the foreign environment, I believe his superior vision may pay dividends .... not so much by tracking but through game-spotting.

Still hunting whitetails is definately tough. Most are killed from stands. Its not like any hunting I've ever seen in Africa, nor is it like still hunting other game in NA.

I've only been on three trips to Africa, but I have yet to meet a single tracker that I would consider deliberate (slow) and quiet enough to still hunt whitetails.

I am sure that most PH's could make the adaptation....not everyone is geared right for still hunting whitetails though, African, American or otherwise!! I have friends that don't even bother...just not patient enough.

I am not sure if the trackers could (or more correctly, would) adapt well or not? I don't see why they couldn't really, provided they were interested in actually doing it!!

As far as how many days...that's a tough one. Depends on the density of deer, whether they are nocturnal, or how spooky they are, etc, etc. It takes EVERYONE a hella long time to connect with a decent buck around here.

Cheers,
Canuck

I want to see how those African trackers handle 18 degrees with 25 mph winds during the late season

If you get a decent snowfall the day before the hunt, there´s no end to what you can accomplish tracking whitetail. That's how I like to hunt them.

Boha

Great question! In fact we discussed this with our PH in Tanzania. I think they would have nearly as much trouble at first as us African newbies did. If they adjusted to our climate(winter conditions) they would eventually do well. The mature whitetail buck, in our area, is one spooky critter.

My own African hunting experience is quite limited (once in the East Cape) but I have hunted several species in the US and Canada. The only way I think you could track a mature buck down and get a (good) shot in the Eastern US is on public land in snow. In my part of the country most deer live in rural areas where the law will not allow the hunter to track a deer for as far as it wants to go: you are going to run into property lines you can't cross. Trying to walk up a mature whitetail in the sort of cover we have when the leaves are on, or in the late fall when the noisy leaves are on the ground, is very difficult for me to picture. I know a lot of people who have killed mature whitetails in this part of the country, and they have generally done it by scouting out a good spot for a stand of some sort during the rut, though drives can work too. The only one I've ever killed I got lucky: it walked past me as it rounded a hill-- after some other hunters had pushed it out of cover about a half-mile away.

They are a very spooky animal, generally nocturnal, or nearly so, and if they even think you are there or believe you see them, they will either drift away before you can shoot or run like hell until they are safe. They also seem to know that when you're carrying a bow you can't take a running shot or whether you are holding a valid buck tag!

In thinking about two of my favorite trackers, January (a Mozambique native) and Sipho (a Zulu) I don't believe either one of them would have any problem. Now the PH. . . .

I've hunted with some good ones.

The best could spot a buff at a mile distant, judge the trophy quality at half that, and count the ticks on his scrotum at 400 yards.

All without the use of Germany's, or even Austria's, much less Japan's, finest glass.

In fact, one of the best trackers I ever saw, a Herero, I think, had a cotton eye. A cornea filled with a white cloudy film. But he looked and saw way better than I did. Don't ask me how.

Another group of expert trackers, perhaps the best I have ever seen, all of them Masai, tracked a kongoni I had wounded. They followed mine among a horde of them, all long absent, of course, having fled, and now quite invisible, and moreover mixed with an equal number of fleeing waterbuck, based only on the ragged marks their hooves cut into the dry earth.

There was no blood trail. Still, the Masai moved quickly over the hard ground, led this way and that by a kongoni track spied here or a trampled clump of grass there.

Where I saw nothing, they saw everything, and saw it quickly. We moved silently, but swiftly, using hand signals, up a hill and down the other side.

Then, at last, we saw blood. Not a lot of it, but the occasional drop or two on the bare earth, or smeared on a blade or two of grass at flank height.

Twice, we completely lost the kongoni's trail. But both times the Masai picked it up again by fanning out and canvassing an ever wider area for a track or drop of blood.

Finally, we found and I killed that hartebeest. But thanks only to the trackers. All I did was finally shoot straight.

I have no doubt that the best African trackers are the best on planet Earth.

In Kevin Robertson's new book, "Most Dangerous", there is a nice tribute to trackers at the very end of the book. He brings out two things that always impress me as well: 1) their incredible eyesight and ability to discern details at distances where we can't make the same evaluation even with binoculars (as said by mrlexma) and 2) their capacity to know where a wounded animal will go, as if they could think like the wild animal.

I'm no whitetail expert, but have killed probly 30 bucks or so in the last 15 years, many in the 4.5yo or older class, and probably as may does. My bet is on the tracker finding a mature buck in less than 3 days. Two people sneeking up on it it and killing would be 5x harder though, that much more movement and sounds. It all depends on 'where' you're hunting. Sneaking up on a deer in an eastern wood lot after the leaves have dropped on the ground when its dry and crunchy... Be pretty difficult but not impossible, sneaking up on a deer in a wester river bottom or in the pine forests. Piece of cake especially with a little snow.

I don't know why whitetail deer got the label as being so difficult nearly impossible to kill. jezzus look at the size of the deer killed these days. Our forefathers almost made them extinct all while using short range weapons and had no clue what a tree stand was.

All one has to do is look at old time photos from the turn of the centry, many times the meat pole is sagging under the weight of 8-10 nice mature bucks. They used many tactics, but still hunting was probably the most prodominant.

Its all about knowing thier habits, elk are the no diffrent. Hunting pressure plays the biggest roll on killing a deer IMO. The biggest whitetail I killed thus far was shot last season, the hunt took all of about 20 min. I know the area very well, and know where the deer travel. Never saw the buck before, never climbed into a stand, just knew where I should be at first light and there he was.

The first 3 of 4 deer I killed where all shot at a range of less than 100 yards while 'still hunting'. The first was a 120" 3point, the second was a 140" 5pt, and the 3rd was a 23" wide 4pt. All mature bucks, all were 'snuck up'on. If a 12-15 year old kid can do it on moderately hunted ground, I have no question a seasoned tracker with the eyes of a hawk could do it.

I haven't hunted that many critters, maybe 10 diffrent species, but IMO I thought hunting kudu in the jesse was similar to still hunting whitetails. Its not impossible but you better be a snap shot. I have snuck up on a few whitetails unknowing to them, but most of the ones I've killed while still hunting, knew I was there long before I got a shot off at them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Moody:
The answer would depend entirely on the area you are hunting.

Ken Moody

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Whitetails inhabit some very different terrains, climates and habitat in this country. They adapt to these differences and act accordingly.

A HUGE HUGE factor of tracker effectiveness hinges on the trackers intimate knowledge of the terrain and how the animal itself interacts with it. Once they determine which direction the animal is going they make an educated guess at where he is going. You can't make that guess if you don't know the land. They then look for sign, not to find their way but to confirm their suspicions. That's how they do that spooky find a freshly browsed plant or single track 50yds from the last one without making a wrong turn.

Where I hunt the whitetails (especially those of trophy quality) are simply fabulous at sequestering themselves in areas of incredible vegetation density and strategic brilliance. Approaching them undetected and you getting a shot at them as they escape is practically impossible. You'll know they are there and they'll know you are there. Their escape routes are well planned. You'll find warm beds, rubs and in the spring shed antlers to confirm their presence. I believe, about the only way to kill a big buck in his bed is to get there before he gets in it. Not foolproof because they always have more than one bed and odds are you'll pick the wrong one.

IMO, during the peak of the rut is the most vulnerable time for spot and stalk. But even then you would be wise to not try to track a specific animal and simply concentrate on checking out known travel lanes. Large whitetails are very suspicious of their back trails and check it constantly. They are distracted during the rut and more vulnerable but not completely oblivious.

I'd be pretty interested as to what experienced PH's and trackers would think and do in my area. I think we could learn a lot from each other.