I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find it when i searched the forum...

Is there a reason, other than aesthetics, to not use one on a DG rifle?

I once shot a 416 Taylor in a thumbhole stock.....do you really still want your thumb? The one in the hole gets ripped in the groove of your hand....seriously hurts like hell!

During last year's Big 5 hunt, our PH asked if he could shoot my 460WBY. The recoil opened a gash on his left index finger after he'd placed his forward hand up against the standard sling swivel stud that protruded a quarter inch from the stock.

I'd imagine a thumb hole stock in most DG rifles might set you up for similar abuse on a big enough recoiler.

I have a 416 Taylor on a thumbhole stock which I haven't fired yet as I am awaiting for loads, but the gunsmith that built it and has fired it said nothing about the recoil and the thumbhole. My 375 H & H has a thumbhole stock and I hunted Buffalo with it last year in the Omay and had no problem either from the bench or in the field. As an aside I just purchased a new Omega ML with a thumbhole stock. The only rifle I would considering buying new now without a TH would be a double rifle.

No offense 333_OKH but might it be that you didn't have a good solid grip on the rifle?

The main reason is that some folks cannot get it into play quickly enough compared to a conventional stock, due to the need to slip the thumb through hole.

George

George you posted while I was getting mine done. We have had this conservation before re: my 416. Once one gets use to the TH your concern is nill, but you must pratice. I was out the other day with my 338 - Th and then I picked up a shotgun with regular stock and damn I almost stoved my thumb trying to put it thru the non existant hole.

OK, we've discussed the potential problems of a thumbhole if one is not accustomed to one - no different than using a scope if you're used to open sights, etc.

But,are there advantages to a thumbhole vs straight or pistol grip? If so, what are they?

A thumbhole stock can also make getting into a proper prone position difficult, regardless of rifle type.

Hunter, IMO the thumbhole stock reduces the felt recoil, I find it easier to acquire the target as I have a better grip on the rifle. With the better grip i e more solid I believe this is the reason for the reduction in the felt recoil. This is my experience with my 338 as I had it with a conventional stock and converted it to an MPI TH stock and I know the before and after with it as to others the 375 and 416 they were built with the TH.

I don't know about the prone position as my old joints just makes it hard to get down and back up I just don't do it for shooting - now other things are different.

Outside being the only stock design that that is almost as ugly as the Weatherby's California Style stock that was so popular in the early sixties,which, thankfully went the way of the fins on cars, it is not well suited to a DGR, IMO! On other rifles it is a matter of choice.

The proper use of the bolt action DGR, is to work the bolt rappidly while the rifle is at your shoulder. to do this you must remove your hand from the "HOLE" and replace it every time you shoot, it becomes a barrier to fast handleing. Addtionally, the design makes the rifle have a true PISTOL GRIP which places the second finger on the trigger hand, too close to the back of the trigger guard, for a heavy recoiling rifle. This closeness not only hurts you finger, but it's closeness, between the grip, and trigger gueared, in conjunction with the thumb in a HOLE design places too many things in the way to snagg your fingers, or thumb at a very critical time.

It all goes back to the main rule when building a DGR, the KISS factor (KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid)

On a target rifle, or a P-DOG rifle no problem, as they work best on a shooting bench!

I was thinking it might help keep my hand from slipping forward during recoil, I figured the hole probably won't cut my hand if it fits properly, but I guess would be slower to get into position...besides, I liked fins on cars...

I can work the bolt on my TH just as quicklly as I can on a conventional rifle.

On all rifles it is a matter of choice.

One can make the argument that only DR are suitable for DG i e quick second shot. i e KISS. A rifle does not work any better on a rest than off handed - it may be more accurate but it doesn"t work better.

In the end it is a matter of opinion and to me only my opinion matters!

I have a .458 Lott, a .375 H&H, a .300 WSM, a .270 Win, and a .22-250 Rem., all in custom thumbhole stocks. I have shot numerous game with them including dangerous game. What some have said about problems with the thumb, lack of fast acquisition, etc. is absolutely NOT true. The thumbhole is made to help evenly distribute some of the recoil, and to give you a much steadier rest. Aside from the unconventional look(sorry they are not ugly) and nature of the thumbhole, they are much easier and faster to use than a regular stock. Mine have also been made and designed with an index finger groove and fit to my shooting hand, face and shoulder. There is no problem with weakness in the stock either. Mine have been made in Bastogne Walnut(for the dangerous game rifles), Tiger Myrtle, Fiddleback Myrtle and Shell Maple. I have many converts among my hunting friends (both African and American hunters) who now have thumbhole stocks on some of their rifles.

Gentlemen, I meant no ill toward anyone who likes the TH stock, in fact, I have two Harry Lawson Mauser actioned rifles in custom TH stocks, and they are fine for what I use them for. One is a 243 Win, and the other is a 280 Rem. I had these made back in 70s, and like you say, they fit me perfectly, and shoot like target rifles.

Still, IMO, for me, they do not sit well, with me, for heavy recoiling rifles, for use on dangerous game. In addtion to the other reasons I gave,in my first post, the thumb hole stock is just about imposible to shoot from the hip,if chambered for a REAL DG cartridge, a need that comes once in a while!
To paraphrase what someone above said, one person's opinion is all that matters to him,........ULESS he asks for other's opinion on the design! I believe that is the case in this thread, quoted below! Still nobody is bound to abide by the opinion offered

quote:

Aglifter
one of us
Posted 18 November 2006 06:47

I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find it when i searched the forum...

Is there a reason, other than aesthetics, to not use one on a DG rifle?

MacD37: No offense taken at all. I have personally used them in my dangerous game rifles and have had no problems. As stated, each has their own opinion and experience and that's what makes AR a great forum. Here's a picture of some of mine.

Those are beautiful rifles UEG, Looks like most are Mod 70s! Some very nice wood for sure!

Both my Lawsons are dark black walnut,with zebra wood forend tips, and pistol grip caps.

NICE RIFLES!

So, is it reasonable to say that thumbhole stocks and high comb stocks go together. Could you reasonably use a TH stock with open sights? If not, perhaps that answers the DG question.
Peter.

Thumbholes on DGR's are truly an abomination. No way can a TH be as strong as a standard stock. No way can a TH be as fast in various actions involving safety operation, etc.

No sir, I don't like 'em. But that's why I live in a (barely) free country. We all have the right to choose.

Absolutely no personal offense meant to anyone anywhere, but we all have our opinions on these things, and it isn't my fault that mine are the right ones.

Or, as a wag once said, "I believe in a man's opinion on [politics/religion/automobiles/rifles] the same as I do in his opinion that his wife is beautiful and his children intelligent."

And I never pontificate on ANY of those topics - apart from rifles of course, whereof I am infallible.

All are Model 70's except the .458 Lott which is a Ruger and is not pictured. The Ruger does not carry a scope, but is open sights with a New England Custom Gun fiber optic front sight. The Ruger shoots great for dangerous game, like the .375 H&H pictured with the Leupold 2X8 (dark wood). The gentleman that built these rifles for me has hunted African 10 times and his trophy room is pictured in one of the volumes of Great Hunters and Their Trophy Rooms published by Safari Press. He (unlike me) hunts with nothing but thumbholes, including his .375 and .458 as used in Africa. It's great that we all have different tastes, likes and dislikes. That's what makes the old world go around. I was skeptical at first about thumbholes until I tried one. . .

The only thing worse than a thumbhole stock is a bullpup rifle.

Gosh, I don't own a bullpup rifle. I'll have to get one now.

UEG, are the light colored one Tiger Maple??

I have one rifle in thumbhole configuration and while not a big banger, I bet they manage recoil well. My only gripe is that I have to almost completely disengage my grip to manipulate the safety with my thumb and then re-acquire my grip, whereas with an open grip it is just a flick of the the thumb.

.366torque: The top rifle (.270 Win) is tiger myrtle; the second rifle(.375 H&H)is bastogne walnut; the third rifle(.300 WSM) is fiddleback myrtle, and the bottom rifle (.22-250 Rem) is shell maple. The Ruger .458 Lott is done in bastogne walnut as well, for the obvious reasons dealing with strength, weight, etc.

Use Enough Gun, thanks.

You're welcome. Just for your information, the man who built my thumbhole rifles carries over 30,000( that's right, 30,000) gunstock blanks and has sold to nearly all of the high end shotgun and rifle manufacturers. Of course, most of the gunstock blanks are used for traditional stocks. He's no slouch when it comes to wood or to rifles.

RIP, of course you are right and you wouldn't want to be confused by others first hand experience.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Thumbholes on DGR's are truly an abomination. No way can a TH be as strong as a standard stock. No way can a TH be as fast in various actions involving safety operation, etc.

RIP, with proper grain layout in the wood, the TH stock might be even stronger than the traditional stock! Strength is not my objection to them, but the grip being too straight, and too close to the trigger guard, and the bridge over the thumb simply is too much clutter. It interferes with being able to fire the rifle from anyplace other than the shoulder, and haveing to remove the trigger hand to work the safety. I simply consider these things to be a detrament to their use as DGRs.

With a very heavy recoiling rifle, fireing from the hip, would, IMO, dislocate the thumb, at a very inopertune moment!

I have on occasion had to do just that, fire from the hip, and with a conventional stock there is no problem, even with a 577NE! In fact, with the 577NE it is far less painfull, fired from the hip, than from the shoulder!

I don't mind the way they look,UEG's rifles are beautifully done, my objection is strictly from an operational point of view!

As someone above said different strokes for different folks!

My own dangerous game rifle ,the rifle that i use to kill injured buffalos is a custom mauser made by amestoy hoffman,a well known local rifle maker,458winch,open sigths,20 inches barrel ,the front sigth is huge and you can see even with very few ligth ,the stock is an english stock ,the best i believe for a DG rifle ,i dont use slings in it ,and ill never choose a thumbhole stock for a DG rifle ,Juan

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
My own dangerous game rifle ,the rifle that i use to kill injured buffalos is a custom mauser made by amestoy hoffman,a well known local rifle maker,458winch,open sigths,20 inches barrel ,the front sigth is huge and you can see even with very few ligth ,the stock is an english stock ,the best i believe for a DG rifle ,i dont use slings in it ,and ill never choose a thumbhole stock for a DG rifle ,Juan

Juan,
Wise man you are.

Mac,
We are on the same page too. Try not to be so PC, please.
Of course one could do some tricks and add some weight and bulk to a TH stock to make it stronger, like threaded steel rods and epoxy through the pillars, above and below the thumbhole. An A-Square Coil-Check would be way more desirable though, for a DGR, than a TH.

There ain't no middle ground here! You are either an asshole or a saint depending on how you look at it. To each his own, but just like trying to use an assault style rifle to hunt with I just don't accept some of the new ideas very well. To me the only beauty in a TH rifle is based on the quality of wood. Reference has been made to the Weatherby of years passed. I wasn't in love with them, again unless the wood quality knocked your eyes out. However, that said I used them some and shot a few TH's. They just don't work for me. In use or for my eyes. Like I said there ain't no middle ground and use what you want.