I'll be buying a double within the next month for my Elephant hunt in Botswana. I need your advice.
I'm thinking about getting the Searcy 577. I've never owned a double but one of my big bores is a 460 Weatherby. I understand i can get this rifle at about 11.5 pounds. Would the calibre be the best choice or would a 500 NE be better?? This will be my 1st Elephant hunt and I know alot of walking
will be involved. Thanks for your help..steve

the 577 is a great caliber and i love it in a double as long as you have the phyiscal stregth to do it why not.

i used a searcy 700 nitro on my botswana elephant and carried that rifle all over hells half acre with out a hitch but its not for every one.

I like the 470 or 500...The 470 ammo is easy available in Africa..But the 500 will stop any ele and knock him down...the 577 does have more recoil... The decision is can you handle the big recoil of the 577...Ammo costs???

But it is your money...and your decision..
Come to Dallas safari club in Jan. and talk to the guys who shoot the double guns and Butch will be there and decisions can be made..

Mike

I would stick with the .500. The .500 has all the power you will need and is more versatile and handier.

The .577 is and always has been a dedicated, special purpose elephant rifle. It's just too big and heavy to be practical for anything else.

It was great for the old-time professional ivory hunters, but is too much of a good thing these days, IMHO.

The old timers, like James Sutherland, used to hunt and kill multiple elephant at a time, sometimes as many as a dozen in a day. Sutherland typically carried and used a .318 bolt rifle, and had his gun bearers carry his heavy .577 double rifles.

The .577s came out when they were tracking elephant in thick cover or following up a wounded animal--in other words, in circumstances where maximum knock-down power was needed no matter the cost in weight and recoil.

The .577 is also HEAVY and KICKS. I'm not sure where you got the 11.5 lb. figure, but that seems quite low to me. The standard Searcy .500 NE comes in at about 11.5 lbs. The .577 will be at least a couple of pounds heavier. The weight is needed to tame the recoil. But that is a lot of rifle to carry around on long treks after elephant.

Some can do it, and some can't. I have carried a 12 pound rifle after elephant and don't think I would want to go any heavier.

Then there is cost. A .577 will cost you about twice as much as a .500.

I must admit, though, that it would be fun to own and use a .577 on elephant.

I think an 11.5# 577 would be too light and really another pound to pound and a half is needed to recover from the first shot to make a timely second shot. A light 577 is a brute!
I think the 500 at about 11# is perfect for carry and use with elephants.

Only if the poacher was from Pensylvania.

edited tonight 11-30-2005

Guys I have been taking major pain killers for about two weeks while awaiting spinal surgery.

I suspect they may well have completley screwed up my brain.

Looking at this I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE this post came from or why it says what it does!!

Greg

AKA,

Having hunted ele with a 13.25 pound .585 and an 11 pound .500, my opinion is that the .500 is a better choice. In fact, a 10 pound .500 would be better than an 11 pounder for hunting, but at the shooting range that extra pound is nice. The more your rifle weighs, the less you will walk, and walking is the name of the game for elephant hunting.

Also consider that the accuracy of most shooters goes down dramatically as the caliber is increased.

If I were doing it all over, I would get a .470.

I have an 10.5 pound 577. It is comparable to the 460 in recoil only not as sharp. I would much rather shoot it than a 460. Get a standing rest or shoot it off hand and you will like it.

If you can afford a Bots Ele and a new 577 you can afford the ammo.

If you don't mind me asking, who are you going to hunt Bots with?

Also the beauty of a double is the quick aimed second shot and as you go up in caliber your accuracy and recovery time increase. I would say go with the 500.

As bulldog563 has stated, the recovery time is much slower with such a big caliber, a major importance in an Elephant Gun imo. My choice is the 470NE but think any double between 450/400 and 500NE is the ultimate Elephant Gun.
Adam C.

A buddy of mine just got back from Africa, second trip this year. His 450/400 Searcy did a great job on the elephants he took!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
AKA,

Having hunted ele with a 13.25 pound .585 and an 11 pound .500, my opinion is that the .500 is a better choice. In fact, a 10 pound .500 would be better than an 11 pounder for hunting, but at the shooting range that extra pound is nice. The more your rifle weighs, the less you will walk, and walking is the name of the game for elephant hunting.

Also consider that the accuracy of most shooters goes down dramatically as the caliber is increased.

If I were doing it all over, I would get a .470.

500..Butch Searcy told me he could do a 11.5 pound rifle. Would you use your 470 because it was less than 11 pounds? Thanks for your response.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
If you don't mind me asking, who are you going to hunt Bots with?

I'll be using John Sharp for this hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
I have an 10.5 pound 577. It is comparable to the 460 in recoil only not as sharp. I would much rather shoot it than a 460. Get a standing rest or shoot it off hand and you will like it.

If you can afford a Bots Ele and a new 577 you can afford the ammo.

I'm leaning toward the 577. Even at 10.5 pounds yours kicks less than the 460? Thanks again

thanks everyone..steve

quote:

Originally posted by AKA:
500..Butch Searcy told me he could do a 11.5 pound rifle. Would you use your 470 because it was less than 11 pounds? Thanks for your response.

If I were commissioning a new double, I would ask that it weigh 10 pounds whether the caliber is .470 or .500. Any weight you can save from the gun will increase the distance you can walk, which is why I carry almost nothing with me. My kit is 10 rounds of ammo, a mini camera, and the gun. If I think I might need something else, it goes in a day pack with a tracker.

As for recoil, personally I notice quite a bit more recoil from a .500 than from a .470. But felt recoil also depends on stock design. I shot a Sig S2 Blaser double in .500 with the kickstop thing installed. Although it weighed about 12 pounds, it feels like it kick more than my Hambrusch double .500 which weighs 10 pounds 3 ounces. The difference seems to be that the Sig hits me in the cheekbone, while the Hambrusch recoils away from my face. Felt recoil on my Searcy is in between the two.

If I were getting a .577, I would get it as light as possible. If 11.5 pounds is as light as Butch could go, that is what I would get. But if he could go down to 10.5 pounds, I would ask him to. On a trophy bull elephant hunt you will probably only fire 1 or 2 shots, but over 21 days you can easily carry the rifle more than 300 miles. Hence my preference for shaving a bit off the gun's weight.

While I have not hunted elephant, I have walked many days after buffalo and gun weight is a big factor. It affects how far you can walk, how fast you can walk, and most importantly...how well you can shoot once you quit walking! I'd choose the caliber based upon how much weight I was willing and able to carry for the time necessary to get that bull. Any of the ones mentioned are more than adequate, but the 500 would be my choice if it can be made to weigh 10 pounds.

AKA:

My $.02.

If this is your first double, I would go for the .500 NE.

I would like to ask you what is the largest caliber rifle CURRENTLY in your battery?

I have a .500 NE and my father and I are having Butch build us a .577.

I have no problem carrying my 10.25 lb double with me. The .577 will run about 14 - 14.5 lbs and will probably feel like a piece of lead on my shoulders after a few miles.

So, my opinion is go with the .500.

Also go to http://www.nitroexpress.com and search that site - lots of discussions about doubles over there.

If you are planning on a Searcy, I would get your deposit in by the end of the year - the prices are heavily rumored to go up in 2006.

Can't wait to see the new double that butch in unveiling at SCI/DSC - color case hardening!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
AKA:

My $.02.

If this is your first double, I would go for the .500 NE.

I would like to ask you what is the largest caliber rifle CURRENTLY in your battery?

I have a .500 NE and my father and I are having Butch build us a .577.

I have no problem carrying my 10.25 lb double with me. The .577 will run about 14 - 14.5 lbs and will probably feel like a piece of lead on my shoulders after a few miles.

So, my opinion is go with the .500.

Also go to http://www.nitroexpress.com and search that site - lots of discussions about doubles over there.

If you are planning on a Searcy, I would get your deposit in by the end of the year - the prices are heavily rumored to go up in 2006.

577..Thanks for the web site. I'll check it out.
I shoot a 460 weatherby. Butch told me he could get the 577 to weight in at 11.5 pounds. I am going to browse throught your web site..thanks..steve

If it was my first double I would go for a .450, a .470 or the .500. Later on get the .577. You will use the others a lot more.

quote:

Originally posted by AKA:
I'll be buying a double within the next month for my Elephant hunt in Botswana. I need your advice.
I'm thinking about getting the Searcy 577. I've never owned a double but one of my big bores is a 460 Weatherby. I understand i can get this rifle at about 11.5 pounds. Would the calibre be the best choice or would a 500 NE be better?? This will be my 1st Elephant hunt and I know alot of walking
will be involved. Thanks for your help..steve

Take the .470 or even better the 500/416 N.E.

Both have less recoil and better penetration than 577 or .500N.E.

And you can faster set your second shot if you have to.

safari: you sure about the penetration of the 470 and 500/416 over the 500NE? THAT was surprising. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by AKA:

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
I have an 10.5 pound 577. It is comparable to the 460 in recoil only not as sharp. I would much rather shoot it than a 460. Get a standing rest or shoot it off hand and you will like it.

If you can afford a Bots Ele and a new 577 you can afford the ammo.

I'm leaning toward the 577. Even at 10.5 pounds yours kicks less than the 460? Thanks again

I don't know if it recoils less but it feels as if it recoils less and is less sharp. A Double that you are having made should fit like a glove. A factory made WB is what it is, a little bit of everything, like Budwieser.

Practice shooting standing up and don't get fuckitis and think you need to play with all different bullets. If you get a Searcy use his regulation loads and be happy.

If you decide on another caliber than I think a you ought to get a 470 incase you decide to pass it along after the Safari. It will be easier to move.


If it was me I would get a 577 2 3/4 regulated for the 750 grain bullet at 1900fps. Built at 10-11 pounds. I have a Hollis like that and it may be my favourite big Double, certainly the one I choose to hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by AKA:
I'll be buying a double within the next month for my Elephant hunt in Botswana. I need your advice.
I'm thinking about getting the Searcy 577. I've never owned a double but one of my big bores is a 460 Weatherby. I understand i can get this rifle at about 11.5 pounds. Would the calibre be the best choice or would a 500 NE be better?? This will be my 1st Elephant hunt and I know alot of walking
will be involved. Thanks for your help..steve

AKA

If you have your heart set on a 577, just do it - it is THE classic elephant hunting rifle.
The only thing I would aks Butch to do is cut the chamber for the 3.25 inch cartridge. You then have the options of reducing pressure and recoil, or of getting an extra 50 - 75 fps second extra with the propellants you have available to you in your country.

Brad

Check out the 500 on my web site.
http://www.hunters-hq.com
click current guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad_Rolston:

quote:

Originally posted by AKA:
I'll be buying a double within the next month for my Elephant hunt in Botswana. I need your advice.
I'm thinking about getting the Searcy 577. I've never owned a double but one of my big bores is a 460 Weatherby. I understand i can get this rifle at about 11.5 pounds. Would the calibre be the best choice or would a 500 NE be better?? This will be my 1st Elephant hunt and I know alot of walking
will be involved. Thanks for your help..steve

AKA

If you have your heart set on a 577, just do it - it is THE classic elephant hunting rifle.
The only thing I would aks Butch to do is cut the chamber for the 3.25 inch cartridge. You then have the options of reducing pressure and recoil, or of getting an extra 50 - 75 fps second extra with the propellants you have available to you in your country.

Brad

brad thank you for your post. With so many recomendations I have to ask what is the better calibre for elephant at 20 yards, Rifle not withstanding..577 ..750 grains @ 2050 fps or 500 NE 570 grains @ 2150fps or the 470 500grains @2150fps?

Harry, a 500 at 14 pounds. No Thanks.

It sounds like you really want a 577 so thats probably the best choice for you.

However, if I remember correctly - Ron Thomson in Mahohboh primarily used a 458 WM bolt rifle but claimed the 470 at similar ballistics was a much better killer of elephants.

After the elephant hunt is done the rifle will be used for many years if it is fun to shoot.

The great thing about a 470 is that you can use it for pigs, black bear and deer with Butch's low power load data or with the full house loads.

Even during the elephant safari a 470 can be fun for warthogs and other plains game at close distances.

Here's a 577 ready to go

Searcy 477

Al