Thanks to Kynoch.



Not sure if I should take my Marlin or my Winchester.

I always thought there was one use that any particular load/caliber/bullet combination had an application that it would be best at. You just stumped me.

I gave looked at many elephants skulls.

I have no doubt one can kill an elephant with a proper side brain shot with this one.

PROPER shot placement.

... Or, you could move up to a slightly larger caliber - as, something like a .577 Nitro.
I used on my first ele back in 1998. He dropped right there. (He got right back up 'cause I missed the brain. But that's a sad, sorrowful story for another time.)

I was scared of my first elephant.

We were a few yards from him.

Had a bog standard Remington safari in 375H&H.

I had worked it up in my mind that I will fire, reload, fire, reload and fire.

My PH told me walk to a tree, and shoot.

I did.

The elephant dropped like a sack of potatoes!

Stone dead!

WDM BELL shot many with the 275 Rigby... 7x57Mauser!!
My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!! YUP, you have to be close and broadside, wait until the Bull steps forward with his front leg, place the shot behind the leg, between the ribs for a lung shot!! He will go aways before he bleeds out!!
Go for it!!

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
WDM BELL shot many with the 275 Rigby... 7x57Mauser!!
My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!! YUP, you have to be close and broadside, wait until the Bull steps forward with his front leg, place the shot behind the leg, between the ribs for a lung shot!! He will go aways before he bleeds out!!
Go for it!!

This story has been told many times.

And have been very hard to believe.

Mr. Robinson,

Our thinking is you go for it and post your report if or when you return.

You will be able to provide first hand knowledge how your idea worked.

A good field try is a good way to go.

Yes, we will be looking for your successful hunting report.

Make sure your PH is on board with your thinking. We cannot afford to lose another PH to your hair brain risky adventure. Maybe, Saeed can back you up with a 22 LR (rumored to be a killer of elephants), sounds like Saeed makes killer bullets and he would be a proper support group.

Mike,

It seems some of us appreciate your sense of humor more than others…

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
Mike,

It seems some of us appreciate your sense of humor more than others…

He even made the camels laugh!

Unfortunately, I am informed that the date code on this ammunition packet indicates these rounds were manufactured by Kynoch in 1963.

I may be conservative, but I’m afraid that 60+ year old ammunition poses too great a risk of misfiring for use on jumbo.

So, it looks like I’ll need to revert to the good old .45-70 Gov’t. and heavy, hard cast flat nosed bullets for this job.

Must admit, I totally fell for it. I hate AI, photoshop and all of that. And Apps, Instagram, whatever that is, etc.

quote:

I may be conservative, but I’m afraid that 60+ year old ammunition poses too great a risk of misfiring for use on jumbo.

I know that risk too well: it can be a "tick .. boom" or just a plain "tick".

I experienced it many years ago with 450 ammo when there was none available on the market and there were no reloading options open to us in East Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Must admit, I totally fell for it. I hate AI, photoshop and all of that. And Apps, Instagram, whatever that is, etc.

Not at all.

The ammunition is 100% legitimate Kynoch factory produced and labeled.

And it was indeed manufactured in 1963.

My proposed use of it for elephant, on the other hand, was tongue in cheek.

What Kynoch intended for its use is anybody’s guess!

Loudest sound I ever heard was a click on a buffalo that wasn't quite finished when i emptied the magazine. All turned out well.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
I know that risk too well: it can be a "tick .. boom" or just a plain "tick".

I experienced it many years ago with 450 ammo when there was none available on the market and there were no reloading options open to us in East Africa.

Now, that is no joke!

Mike,

Thanks for clearing that up. I bought that it was legit and was wondering what they were thinking. What was that good for?

quote:

What Kynoch intended for its use is anybody’s guess!

Probably was ele.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
WDM BELL shot many with the 275 Rigby... 7x57Mauser!!
My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!! YUP, you have to be close and broadside, wait until the Bull steps forward with his front leg, place the shot behind the leg, between the ribs for a lung shot!! He will go aways before he bleeds out!!
Go for it!!

Would have to be a heart-shot and not just lungs. And one would have to precisely shoot between ribs. But, it probably is possible.

Side brain would work, probably. Frontal brain, no way.

Side brain or heart shot.

I'd never hunt elephant with anything that wouldn't handle a frontal brain shot if necessary. If the side shots didn't work, it might be necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'd never hunt elephant with anything that wouldn't handle a frontal brain shot if necessary. If the side shots didn't work, it might be necessary.

Well,

I have seen rifles from the 375 to the 577 T.Rex fail to reach the brain from the front!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
WDM BELL shot many with the 275 Rigby... 7x57Mauser!!
My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!! YUP, you have to be close and broadside, wait until the Bull steps forward with his front leg, place the shot behind the leg, between the ribs for a lung shot!! He will go aways before he bleeds out!!
Go for it!!

Would have to be a heart-shot and not just lungs. And one would have to precisely shoot between ribs. But, it probably is possible.

I fail to see how the 22 would penetrate the hide of an elephant and any PH worth his salt would never try such an irresponsible act

quote:

My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!!

Playing the game "Cardinal Puff" can have hallucinating consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'd never hunt elephant with anything that wouldn't handle a frontal brain shot if necessary. If the side shots didn't work, it might be necessary.

Agreed

I've only shot one elephant, so I'm no expert, but I'm in the rough stages of planning another elephant hunt. On my first, I tried a quartering away side brain shot, which was close, but he went down front legs first. It all ended well, but wasn't a resounding success. I think my .416 will handle a frontal brain shot just fine, and elephant are generally on license, but if I target elephant, I'm thinking about taking the .458 Lott.

416 Rigby is fine for a frontal shoot and we took this bull about a month ago unbeknown to us it had been wounded and lost by another client and you can see the festering wound as a grey patch on top of his head

quote:

I think my .416 will handle a frontal brain shot just fine, and elephant are generally on license, but if I target elephant, I'm thinking about taking the .458 Lott.

By all means take the .458 Lott if you want the satisfaction of using it on Elephant but keep in mind that the .416 is plenty enough.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

I think my .416 will handle a frontal brain shot just fine, and elephant are generally on license, but if I target elephant, I'm thinking about taking the .458 Lott.

By all means take the .458 Lott if you want the satisfaction of using it on Elephant but keep in mind that the .416 is plenty enough.

As I mentioned above, size is immaterial.

Seen 577 T.Rex fail on a frontal shot!

Nice looking bull Andrew.

I talked to the Texan hunter who took this bull. Lovely animal. I guessed 60lb aside but I am no expert.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'd never hunt elephant with anything that wouldn't handle a frontal brain shot if necessary. If the side shots didn't work, it might be necessary.

This is a very wise philosophy. It’s one every prospective elephant hunter should keep in mind.

With regard to some very capable cartridges failing on a frontal brain shot, my guess is that had more to do with bullets and load than anything associated with caliber. Using today’s excellent solids and a proper cartridge loaded sufficiently, a frontal brain shot, placed properly should work with all modern ‘elephant’ cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
WDM BELL shot many with the 275 Rigby... 7x57Mauser!!
My old Botswana PH John Northcote told me a story about killing an elephant with a 22LR!! YUP, you have to be close and broadside, wait until the Bull steps forward with his front leg, place the shot behind the leg, between the ribs for a lung shot!! He will go aways before he bleeds out!!
Go for it!!

Would have to be a heart-shot and not just lungs. And one would have to precisely shoot between ribs. But, it probably is possible.

I fail to see how the 22 would penetrate the hide of an elephant and any PH worth his salt would never try such an irresponsible act

I was told by one PH that he had done it himself. He said was simply trying to shoo them away.

There is not a single shoulder fired cartridge that will guarantee adequate penetration on a front shot on elephant 100%.

This is exactly the same argument that nitwit Alpin said as he brought out the 577 T.Rex.

And that failed.

On a cow too!

It has to be the bullet, right? Need a very strong one that will not bend or break up.

At or above a certain velocity, of course, say 2,300 fps or so.

The .30-30 with a good solid in Bell's hands would likely do the job.

But I tried a magnet on these Kynoch 170 grain solids, and they are NOT steel jacketed.

Saeed,

I trust my .416 and think it will do the job or I wouldn't use it. If I was on a dedicated elephant hunt, I'd probably use the .458 Lott. but I do think it's about bullet construction and anything can fail.

Mike:
I got the joke first thing.
Always appreciate good humor,
many times even bad humor can be funny.

As for brain shots on ele's.
I would bet the farm more have been flubbed
by the shooters
than any proper bullet or cartridge has failed. No doubt quite a bunch have though.
IF they will on elk, surely elephants have caught their share too.

This turned out to be a good post, thanks for starting it.

Andrew: Best wishes for a great bull and good shots coming up.

George

I think you are absolutely correct, George.

The brain shot on elephant must be learned.

Too many modern hunters are unprepared. But how can one learn, on just a bull or two or three these days?

Bell learned over many long safaris by studying elephant skulls like a medical student studies human anatomy.

He learned the angles and the geometry of an elephant's skull - that is, he learned precisely where the brain is located - and his learning allowed him to put those long, high sectional density medium caliber bullets right where the doctor ordered.

And Bell had not only learning, but also great skill as a marksman.

By all accounts (a great many of which were his own, it is true), Bell was an excellent marksman. Getting up on one's hind legs and shooting with iron sights is not easy work.

Still, when reading Bell, I have sometimes wondered about how many elephants were lost, but whose stories were not told.