From another thread I quote:

quote:

Originally posted by corne Omujeve:
NAPHA would never admit they were wrong...
We have our AGM on the 2nd of December and BLOOD will flow...

I have no dog in this race, but have been watching it from an outsiders' perspective. Can hardly wait for this day and tomorrow to pass. I, and I'm sure many others who actually have a stake in the issue too, experience the same sort of feeling as the day before our Springboks play against the All Blacks! Or, more recently, when my provincial team had to stand up - and lost - to the Blue Bulls. Anxious anticipation!

By tomorrow evening [South African time] I hope someone will have posted the basic facts about the NAPHA Meeting: How many were shot? How many were knifed? How many had a pack of trained hounds set on them? How many died on the scene? How many were hospitalized? How many broken knuckles?

But jokes aside, will someone, actually really everyone, who attends the meeting, please give us all the so eagerly awaited feedback about the real issues and decisions, before the details fade from memory.

The almost similtaneous posting of the different perspectives of what happened at the meeting will make for some very nice reading and nitpicking by the armchair experts? Will some also in such postings be willing to reveal their full identities and affiliations?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

According to an earlier thread MET announced they were continuing the Leopard ban until they get new rules gazetted.

It would be very interesting to be in this meeting, or better/safer to watch via tele.

John

Andrew, is it really an issue within the ranks of the Ph's? My impression was that the Ph's are trying to preserve a viable leopard population and that it is the dog pack owners who are against the dog hunting ban as it obviously affects their livelihood. Now there may be some issues relating to the way they went around trying to do this...
Peter.

Peter,

Sorry, but I cannot give a motivated response to the question of if this is really an issue with the 'average Namibian PH'. As said, I do not have a dog in this fight! With the amount of contact that I have with Namibian PH's it simply not possible to gauge the typical view of Namibian PH's about this issue. That the way it was handled and will after tonight will be handled will have significant effect on all of them is a sure thing!

However, as a South African PH, it was rather interesting to watch the development of, let me try to phrase it as: How not to win friends and influence people negatively.

What I do hope will be some of the eventual outcomes of all this for only the South African hunting industry - I will let the Namibians speak for what they want or hope the effect of the debacle will have on their own hunting industry - is: (i) A greater realization by South African PH's of the potential role that their organization (PHASA) can potentially play in deciding on similar matters in South Africa. (ii) A greater realization amongst members of PHASA that election of office bearers for an organization should not be by popularity or willingness to work, but by competence! (iii) A greater realization by Provincial and National Nature Conservation officials that the issuing of licenses for leopard and other 'scarce' animals should be transparent and fair. May I remind all of the problem experienced some time ago when a relatively junior provincial official implemented a totally stupid pre-requisite before issuing leopard hunting [URL=https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/500104789?r=615107099#615107099[/URL]

What I hope will be an outcome for the general worldwide hunting industry will be is an increased realization that a lot of 'industry' problems have an underlying cause: The drive by all involved, both PH's and clients, to get the trophy at all costs!

I place canned lion shooting, put & take antelope trophy collecting and using dogs for any mamal 'hunting', be it bushpigs, leopard, blackbacked jackal or cheetah or whatever animal, other than gamebirds all in the same category as problems with the same underlying cause: Get the trophy by any means at all costs. The problem with such an attitude is that the 'any means' start to get interpreted to suit the situation. For some it means 'legal or not' - the root cause of the actual start of the NAPHA debacle. Yet others may motivate that 'hunting' a leopard with a pack of trained dogs is ethical.

I'm not prescriptive about what anyone should regard as ethical. Make your own choice of where you draw your line: Hunt with bare hands. Hunt with club or flint knife spear that you have made yourself. Hunt with handmade weapons made by others who are good at flint-knapping. Hunt with the help of the (then) latest craze: use of a half-tame woolf. Hunt with the (then) latest in hunting technology - the bow and arrow. Hunt with a whole army of beaters to drive the animal(s) to a point of killing or a catch pit. Hunt with the (then) latest: Muzzleloading firearms. Hunt with the (then) latest: Breach loaders. [It is roundabouts here in the development that the term "trophy" came into general use.] Today we have adherents of trapping, spear hunting, traditional bow hunting, modern compound bow hunting, crossbow hunting, scoped crossbow hunting, hunting 'primative' firearms, modern made replicas of primitive firearms, modern in-line muzzleloaders, modern weapon with iron sights, a scoped rifle, the anti's favorite: a scoped high power rifle, from a blind over bait, with the help of a pack of trained dogs, with night sighting equipment, with a variety of scents and attractants, search for by helicopter then land and shoot on foot, search and shoot from a helicopter, , , ,.

Where do you draw your own line? At the point where you are sure to get the trophy because you cannot afford another trip to Africa for a leopard and you know that you, your wife and all of your offspring will die a horrible death and go straight to Hell if you do not get a leopard on this safari? Or do you draw your line somewhere such that you can live with yourself? Someone once (jokingly) said: "I just like to shoot stuff when I'm HUNTING.... " If you subscribe to that attitude you will be interested in what I regard as a fact: The use of a trained pack of dogs for getting a leopard killed definately very significantly increases the chances in favor of the guy with the rifle. Ask the Namibian stock farmers to verify this: A trained pack of hounds really helps getting stock raiding leopards killed! Is it true "sporting hunting"? Over to you!

But I digress and take the focus away from the topic heading: What will happen at the NAPHA meeting?

Will someone please report back as soon as possible after the meeting? Will some posters here then be prepared to reveal their true identity and affiliation(s)? The reason for my interest in this is to see if I, and naturally all South African PH's, both members of PHASA and non-members, can learn something from the affair to improve or better manage the situation here. In truth that's not the only reason: I love a good fight! Particularly if I'm not involved or going to get hurt!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Sounds like you are waiting on the outcome of the meeting... like a buzzard waits.

Well, after that utterly stupid and uncalled for announcement by NAPHA regarding foreign hunters we are all waiting to see what develops.

Their half-hearted excuses did not do much to stop people worrying about the actions NAPHA might take.

In any sort of orgenization, the person who was responssible for something like that would get his or her marching orders, no questions about it.

Well it is 9pm or so in Namibia. Any news?

Matt,

unlike some of your early settlers, most of us here in America have a strong aversion to prison...

Rich

Well Matt Graham, you sure are a smart guy....what are you going to the USA to peddel? Hope you are detained and investigated.

quote:

Well Matt Graham, you sure are a smart guy....what are you going to the USA to peddel? Hope you are detained and investigated

Seems very uncalled for over an opinion not of your own. I dont know Matt but he is really good friends with a partner of mine and have herd nothing but swell things about him

Gentlemen, why don't we hold off on pissing on each other until after we hear about what comes from the NAPHA meeting.

Afterwards would be a lot more appropriate time to react with disgust and criticize everyone else's ethics. That way I can read the report from the meeting and then just ignore the thread while you all spit and scratch at each other.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Well Matt Graham, you sure are a smart guy....what are you going to the USA to peddel? Hope you are detained and investigated.

Whoa-back ... where did THAT come from?? I dont want to see anyone get into any trouble and least of all see trouble in Namibia. It just sounded like a very critical post from someone who has no 'dog in the fight'... expecting people involved to be fighting and carrying-on.. bloodshed...

Why would you wish upon me to be detained and investigated?? What have I ever done to you????

MG

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Matt,

unlike some of your early settlers, most of us here in America have a strong aversion to prison...

Rich

Mate, I wasnt saying anything about that...

BTW - I think you'll find the incarceration rate is a tad higher in the USA than Australia. Were you trying to diss me with those comments??? haha

Matt,
I wouldn't worry about any comment from Buliwyf, all of his posts in the last 2 months have been NAPHA, and their TREASON! I hope you're cathing my sarcasm...he keeps wanting to press charges against Napha...interesting because Napha hasn't broken any laws, merely made a statement.

He has yet to defend his position with any real facts about laws or civil process...he just makes crazy statements.

So don't worry about him!

I think we can safely classify NAPHA's position as a not so mild form of extortion.

Rich

the silence from Namibia is deafening

Yeah, but those treasonous Namibian black helicopters patrolling our skies are pretty noisy sometimes.