THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM


Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
SLAUGHTER OF BABY ELEPHANT
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
18th February 2007


SLAUGHTER OF BABY ELEPHANT


We have just received a very sad report from a gentleman named Dave who resides in the UK.

In October last year, Dave came to Zimbabwe to do a walk through the bush from Kariba to Binga. He deliberately timed his walk to begin at the end of October because he knew the hunting season was officially over by then but he was surprised to discover that hunting was still in full swing. Many of the hunters he encountered did not want him anywhere near their concessions and he was threatened with a "shooting accident". The day after he received the threat, National Parks picked him up and removed him from the area. He assumes they must have received a complaint about him from the hunters.

On the Eastern shoreline of the Sengwa basin, Dave came across 2 baby elephants that appeared to have been abandoned. One was very thin but alive and the other had been speared and butchered to death.



Dave took another photo of the dead baby from a different angle. We have attached this photo rather than including it in the body of the report because some of our readers will find it extremely upsetting. Anyone who would like to see it can open the attachment.

Dave was at a loss to understand why these 2 babies had been abandoned by their mothers because there was plenty of vegetation for the herds to feed on. The one baby was about 18 months old and the other, only a couple of months old. Knowing how closely mother elephants bond with their babies, he was mystified.

He believed he found the answer a few days later when he was at Makuyu Fishing Camp. He struck up a conversation with an employee of Ivan Carter Safaris which was situated nearby. Dave knew Ivan Carter so he asked the employee where he was. The employee replied that Mr Carter had taken a client to shoot a bull elephant. He then added that they had shot 2 cows earlier in the week. Although Dave has no proof, he feels sure the 2 cows were the mothers of the abandoned babies. He then asked the employee why he was still working long after the official hunting season was over and he replied that if clients were willing to pay, they would take them out any time.

If anyone would like to verify the facts with Dave, please email us at the address below as he has given us permission to release his contact details.

Johnny Rodrigues
Chairman for Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force
Tel: 263 4 336710 (temporarily out of order)
Fax/Tel: 263 4 339065 (temporarily out of order)
Mobile: 263 11 603 213
Email: galorand@mweb.co.zw
Website: www.zimbabwe-art.com
Website: www.zctf.mweb.co.zw


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Dear Kathi ,
Thanks for emailing me the story that has appeared in the zimbabwe press.

Sadly, once again it is a case of very poor reporting .

I was in fact hunting in the Omay in October last year , that is true and we came across Mr Dave Lemon .. Father of Graeme Lemon , a close friend of mine who used to guide in Matusadonna. Who was , in fact walking from Kariba to Binga , we spent some time with him and in fact he was looking pretty tired and we gave him some of our supplies , ( we had come to the lake in search of elephant just to “spike camp “ for a day as we had been hunting Omay south , some 80 miles south of where he was) to my knowledge he did not speak to my staff , but in fact spoke to me personally , and , having nothing at all to hide, we told him exactly what we were doing , hunting elephant….we didn’t in fact shoot an elephant bull on that safari as we didn’t find one that could be considered to be of the trophy quality we were after.

As far as being threatened by hunters, Dave Lemon is a great guy , with a lot of bush experience and a real pleasure to be with in the bush, we had a very amicable chat and while I don’t believe he is a hunter , he understands the economics of hunting and the reality of it. I simply don’t believe that he was threatened by hunters and removed by parks …weather or not he had permits to be walking through Parks Estate or not may have been more to the point …


It must be remembered that the Omay is a communal area with several thousand residents , many of whom have firearms. It is an area where there is , always has been and always will be a degree of poaching …

You will note from the photo that the baby elephant in question is not actually thin looking, however had possibly been photographed some distance from the herd as they spread out to feed on the foreshore … the second baby that was “speared to death†and butchered ..again there is no proof of what happened here , had that been killed by hunters it would most certainly not have been speared.


I had been hunting with a good friend and client from the states , I would like to point out that in Zimbabwe , in an area like Omay there is no hunting season per se , and seasons are governed by useability of roads , hence the Zambezi valley closing at certain times as the roads are impassable . Elephants have no breeding season and breed throughout the year and thus there is no fixed “season†per se.



We were it is true hunting elephant bulls and we had shot one cow at that time, in omay south, as the crow flies some 90 miles south and east of where we had met Dave Lemon…a long way for an orphaned elephant calf to travel. In addition, we had a videographer with us at all times, I would be more than happy to share video of the kill shot and scenario with anyone who would be interested to prove that we did not at any time shoot any cows that were with calf ,I was wearing a wireless mic and it is very clear how careful we are to avoid shooting the “wrong†cow. We later shot a second cow ( also on film) …also in Omay South some 50 miles from where we met Dave Lemon. Of the two cows one cow was actually alone and the other was an old cow that had no calf though there were calves in the group …I actually have several occasions on film where we avoid certain elephants who are with calf …

In both cases the cows were shot with one shot at close range in the brain and so the disturbance factor to the remaining elephants was limited.


As Professional hunter I believe we will always be dealing with this kind of reporting …when a tragedy is discovered in the bush such as this, often in a desperate attempt to understand who, why and when, people jump to conclusions…we need to stand together and ensure that our reputation remains at the high level it is, this kind of reporting can be damaging to the whole industry. I believe hunting elephant is a privilege and something not to be taken lightly, in order that a high degree of integrity is maintained we need to stay together and strive to make sure the truth gets out ….there are, without question, people who are less than ethical, and sadly we all at some stage or another get tarred with that brush ..

I will be more than happy to answer any questions or share further information with anyone who is interested,

Please feel free to contact me on ivan@ivancarter.com.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ivan carter
posted Hide Post
thanks for posting that kathi Smiler


"The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it”

www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica

www.ivancarterwca.org
www.ivancarter.com
ivan@ivancarter.com
 
Posts: 1201 | Location: South Africa  | Registered: 04 March 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Will
posted Hide Post
It is not surprising that this is a UK based person that reported these "facts."

The tendency it seems is reporting a situation but surrounding it with what one wants to believe as opposed to the actual facts, whether they are known or not.


-------------------------------
Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne.

NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R.
_________________________

"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.

red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________

Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
 
Posts: 19380 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of NitroX
posted Hide Post
Kathi

You don't post any reference where the original article was from?

Did it come from Johnny Rodrigues? Or an article supplied by him?


__________________________

John H.

..
NitroExpress.com - the net's double rifle forum
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Mr. Rodriguez and his Conservation Task Force have been placed on the Parks "Black list" and will have no dealings with him or his organization altogether. The reason as I understand is due to "false reporting and rumor mongering".


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3035 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Johnny lives on gullible peoples money. If 1/10 of what is donated to this one man task force reaches the parks I will have to drink American Whiskey for a year.

He was a used car salesman before starting the Conservation task force. He is also seriously anti hunting
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of NitroX
posted Hide Post
I thought Johnny Rodriquez was being promoted by a member on AR not long ago?
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
While I have not hunted with Ivan Carter I do know him and have spoken to people who have hunted with him, and seen videos of hunts where he was the PH.

I also know a videographer who has hunted with him on many Safaris.

I have no doubt his post here is true and correct.

He has an excellent reputation as an elephant PH.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Forgive me for asking, but what is the issue? Are we saying that the person in question did NOT in fact see two baby elephants that seemed to have been abandoned by their mothers? Is the issue that he is lying? The "rebuttal" did not address that question, but agreed that it was a "tragedy". Dave Lemon "believed" he found the answer. Are the stalwarts on this forum saying that it is OK to kill cow elephants if they have babies? If not, what is the real issue here? Certainly if there is no such thing as a hunting season for elephants that should be pointed out, however, there are certainly times when elephant hunting is more likely to be successful than others.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10515 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Peter

The issue is that there is a poaching problem, but Johnny would like to blame it on legitimate hunters. Yes when hunting cows misstakes are made- but any PH knows you can contact the local parks office who will arrange to have it collected if somebody is in the market for one, or give you permission to finish it off.

Also, did the person have a permit to wander through a parks safari area or the Lake Kariba recreational Park?- Answer- NO - that is why parks threw him out when they were notified of his presence. A safari operator holds the lease and gives permission for HIS guests/clients/Friends to be in the area. Obviously a man who cannot be bothered to get a permit to walk in the recreational park (cost US$25 from parks) and decides to swing wide through the safari area has a different adgenda.
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Ok makes sense to me. However, I do belive that most people, even non hunters are aware of the poaching problem


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10515 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: