Can any of you guys give any helpful advice for proficiency at this endeavor? I practice it, but damn, I believe I can shoot better freehand offhand than with those damn sticks! I always try and shoot sitting or kneeling and with a rest when possible, but we all know those options often aren't available in Africa (unless you have a hide of steel). Those sticks frustrate me to no end, and have for years. Mayhaps there is a trick?

I practiced my ass off with bamboo sticks made with Ann's idea of using vacuum cleaner drive bands. Got kinda decent with them but was never very comfortable doing things fast.

Got to RSA and the two PHs we hunted with had Stoney Point sticks that were a hellova lot easier to shot over. Buy a set and take you own with you!

My wife and I have both been practicing with some homemade shooting sticks, and are fairly comfortable with them. Not great, but significantly more accurate than shooting offhand.

Used the info. on this forum to make 'em. Three 6' bamboo sticks (Home Depot), a vacuum cleaner belt, a few twists about 8" or so from one end, and they work well.

Trick is to figure out where to put your left hand to hold the rifle. Lean into the shooting sticks just a bit, and you should do fine.

I've found them to be more stable than the bipods, like Stoney Point, which I have hunted with here in the States.

The "sticks" I've been using consist of 2, not 3, which is what I have found all my PH's to have in the past. I'm sure 3 would be better, but it doesn't help if the PH uses 2.

There's a good article by none other than Ross Seyfried in the last issue of Rifle mag. There's a trick to getting into position fast, you have to cross your ankles and then sit down. There's also a trick to holding the sticks.

I'm referring to using the sticks while standing. I use Stoney Point sticks sitting and kneeling often and fine.

When I hunted with Claude of Mafigeni Safaris, he had a set of Stoney Points that were easier and faster than the bamboo set-up I had fashioned to practice with and they were a bipod set-up. I watched Jill of Mafigeni checking the zero on one of her rifles and there is a definite technique. Stand with your feet shoulder width apart or a little more with your feet at a 45 degree angle to the direction you are shooting with your opposite foot forward (ie left foot forward if you are shooting right handed). The sticks should be low enough that you bend forward at the waist very slightly. Hope that helps? I do agree, sitting or a tree work better if that's an option.

I think it also helps a little if the top of the sticks are back toward you just a little bit. This allows you to get a real three point stance ... you feet as one point and the legs of the sticks as the other two.

What I meant about taking your own with you is that if you want to use a three legged set ... you have it with you.

Arts,

How are you trying to do it now and what seems "wrong"?

It takes a while to master sticks, but when you do, they are very good.

Firstly, how are you carrying your rifle? It is a lot easier to start off with the rifle "slung"..As already mentioned set the sticks up (now you can both hands)so that they sloping toward you slightly and that you have to stoop slightly or lean into them. With one hand holding the sticks where they cross and sling your rifle and place it in the upper "V" of the cross. I sort of hold the sticks and the fore end of the rifle to the rifle is not actually toughing the sticks...i have seen other grasp the sling right near the sling swivel/stock instead..still others have a web strap across the "V" like the stony point does..

Practice like this and things will be easier in Africa as usually the PH or one of the trackers will set the sticks and you will just have to step up to them to use them..

Regards,

Pete

I do it just as you say. Maybe I just haven't got enough practice in on them. For this trip upcoming, I've only gotten in about 500 rounds off the damn things in the past 4 months. Granted, I practice more kneeling, try to get in a minimum of 100 rounds a week, sometimes don't make it, sometimes a bit more. The stick shooting just doesn't seem to come for me.

I really didn't think that there was a magic answer, just frustrated! Guess I need more practice, but a man only has so much time.

Arts,

I prefer to put my wrist and back of my hand on the rest of the shooting sticks...I tend to pull them towards me slightly and they hold for me...I must also say you have to have a smooth firing sequence...
You should only use around 3 to 6 seconds to fire...

Mike

Arts,



You seem to be happier using them kneeling than standing...if thats so, what, besides the obvious, are you doing different?? If you can figure out what you like about one technique that you don't about the other, maybe you can solve this...As far as prectice goes, try dry fireing in the house or the best practice of all, use your sticks for hunting rabbits/small game with a .22lr...



Regards,



Pete

I fail to see that there is any "Secret" to shooting off sticks.

If anything, the secret is to know beforehand what height you want them to be. So beforehand, before you actually need them, get the guy to set up the sticks. Adjust the height until they are the right height for you.

Then step back, put out your left arm to that height, and remember where that is, and tell the tracker that this is what is meant.

Then when the time comes, just stick out your arm to that predetermined height and the tracker will set up the sticks to your correct height.

On my first trip my PH had a set of Stoney Point Steady Stix. These are the two stick version that will fold up with a bungee cord in the center. They look like tent poles. I shot ok on them, but didn't like the flex. I recently bought a set of the Stoney Point Pole cat, that is the three leg version. I found that it is important to place the third leg out in front of you rather that facing back towards your legs. I then grab the third leg with my off hand and rest the gun in the yolk. This seems to be the most comfortable stance. I also keep a slight bend in the knees to prevent leg trembles if holding for any time.

I'm truly suprised no-one else pointed you towards the best instructional resource on the net for shooting off sticks, so here it is:

sooting sticks

This should answer all your questions!

That's funny as hell!

I'd say if you're shooting 100 rounds/week, you'll settle in things quite nicely when you get to Africa.

Will,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. My biggest problem with shooting sticks is the tracker setting the sticks up too high. Too high means no shot. Also the tracker sets the sticks up where the animal seems to be perfectly in the clear to him. Being that he has never shot a rifle before he doesn't see the grass, brush and 14 twigs between the muzzle and the animal. A little setting the sticks up drill on the first day of the safari could save quite a bit of frustration later.

Regards,

Mark

Arts,

Strikes me we're all missing the obvious. If you are shooting better (or as well) offhand, why not forget the sticks and work on your offhand shooting?

I have found that, if there is a second person around, it helps enormously if that person stands on the right of the (right-handed) shooter, and grabs his shirt at the right shoulder with his left hand. The 'V' formed by his elbow makes a solid rest for the shooter's right elbow. Not doing this is pretty much like benchresting with your right elbow in the air - not very steady at all. You might want to try this on the range with a buddy and, if it works, show your PH / tracker the technique and ask that they do this for you when the time comes.

Hope this helps

No doubt about it, sticks work great once you get use to them. However, those who advocate practicing offhand are spot on. I have been working on my off hand shooting for several weeks, & the results are impressive. I use the controlled wobble method.

I've hunted with the same PH in Namibia for the last three years. It was my impression that he wanted me to use the sticks for every shot. On a number of occaisions we'd get very close to an animal, then spook it by having the tracker trying to set up the sticks. After a couple of those deals I told the PH if I needed the sticks I'd ask for them. Most of us can make a 40 or 50 yard shot without them. For longer offhand shots the PH's shoulder was my rest.

Arts,
It is pretty straight forward deal, just lean into them rather snugly and its a good idea to wear a glove and put the rifles forend in your hand.

Then don't expect to compete with the benchrest..I very rarely use them except with a very heavy gun like some double rifles or big bolt guns in 505..Guns that weigh 11 pounds or more..

They have one objective and that is too assist you make a good shot, but they cannot do it for you...I, like you, can shoot as well and maybe better off hand and a couple of PH I work with will not allow me to use even them..so maybe your in the same bucket with me....

I do my best shooting off Pierre van Tonders shoulder, he is a rock..

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess basically I just need to keep practicing it, though not for much longer regarding this trip--I leave in 5 days.

I have found if you sight in your rifle using a bench rest- first to put holes in target 'edging each other'-using a scope that is-
then the rest is a piece of cake- whether you use sticks or all freehanded does not matter-
obtain several pieces of oak board 2"x10"x10" 'size of kill zone'
set them up about 100 yds out 'preferably against a bank'
shoot using sticks or freehanded -hit target- moves shoot again target gets in all sorts of positions from facing to lying down also gets smaller- usually rapid fire works best for me - have done quite good with this on pre season shoots
I hit what I aim at when hunting-

anyway enjoy the hunt

I don't use sticks here; I don't use them there; I don't want to use them anywhere.



There may be exceptions, such as for a 250 yard shot in tall grass that would be offhand without sticks.



But I can't imagine needing sticks for a 50 yard shot.

500grains:

You can't imagine using sticks for a 50 yard shot because you are not one of the many so called "hunters" who go to Africa. The idea of practicing for months in shooting offhand is alien to them. They don't have the discipline nor the talent even to put shots in a 6" circle at 50 yards. Recently I was in a furore on another thread in this forum when I suggested that using the PH's shoulder for a rest was not what any self respecting hunter should do. I heard all about how I was not "qualified" to comment. I realized afterwards from the comments of some people that they were so accustomed to this type of "hunter" that they think it's normal. (No one ever explained to me what the effect on the PH's hearing must be if he allows his shoulder to be used regularly as a sandbag rest) The fact is that most animal targets in Africa are ridiculously easy to shoot at compared to an eastern white tail moving in heavy brush or an antelope at 300 yards. Anyone who can't place a bullet shooting offhand on an animal the size of an elephant or Cape buffalo at 50 yards has no business in the field as far as I'm concerned. But, of course, that would hurt the outfitters' business so they hasten to assure these trigger pullers that they are doing just the right thing by using sticks, the PH's shoulder, "Can we get that tracker over here to help hold the barrel?". (OK, I exaggerated with that last part -but not too much)

gerald 416 sounds awfully self-righteous to me in all his posts. Makes we wonder if he's an undercover anti-hunter. Or maybe just a whitetail shooter hopelessly lost in an African Game Hunting forum.

I found this link interesting.

Varmit Al's Shooting Sticks

Well gents, at todays practice session I employed 2 things I picked up here. 1) I squared off a bit more to the target. I had been placing my feet perhaps a bit too in-line with the target. This helped my sideways sway, which has been my biggest problem. This wasn't stated here directly, but a couple comments made me think about it. 2) What really seemed to help was placing the sticks in front of the sling swivel and pulling the sticks into the swivel as a stop. I shot considerably better today than any time in the past 2 months--not really good, but at least I kept all the holes in a 4" circle at 100 yards. Thanks a bunch, guys!!!!!

Incidently, I'm not concerned with a 50 yard shot at a buffalo; I'm concerned with 100+ yard shots at the smaller antelope (smaller than Eland & Kudu).

I shoot prarie dogs from prone or sitting positions only with no other rest. I will not shoot them from a bipod or from one of those 4 wheeler bench rests. As a result, I can only hit prarie dogs reliably out to 300 yards, with about 25-30% success out to 350 yards. At 400 yards it's a pretty iffy proposition. But my shooting skills from field positions improve because of this limitation that I have placed on myself.

For offhand practice, use a centerfire for rabbits and leave the shotgun at home.

Or join your local hi power club and learn to shoot an AR-15 offhand at 200 yards.

Mr. Boatman:

I'm in the SCI record book for Cape buff, Africa, 9th Ed. What are your credentials?

This was a good info thread. Let's not start a squawling match.

Arts:

I don't know about you but I don't let someone spit in my face and then I should say "it's raining". BUTT OUT, ASSHOLE.

Let me tell you a little, big mouth. I started this thread for some info; I feel I have something in it. Now, as to your 5 dollar mouth and your 50 cent ass, why don't you get it out here to Nevada and I'll square things with you quick, or do you just name call from a distance. That kind of crap doesn't do anything good for this forum at all and damn sure isn't needed or appreciated. Want to squawk like a couple of kids, then start a thread; don't destroy one that is providing useful information.

Gerald,

What you should realize is that many posts are created just to have someone to "talk" to, without much regard as to replies or content of same.

You are taking this too seriously, as even when you reply with the "truth" it generally gets ignored anyway.

So you have to stifle the temptation to reply to some of these posts or accept the fact that even though you may have been there and done that, not many really care, as it wasn't the point to learn anything in the first place.

Will, I am in shock at your incredibly diplomatic post after a moderately hostile reply to an incredibly hostile reply to a gratuitously hostile comment. This is how bar fights start. Is this what the internet has come to? Take this shit to the politics forum, please.

All of which is to say, Will, do not pass Go, do not collect $200 and forthwith turn in your SCI (Sworn Curmudgeons International) membership card.

Arts,
Glad to see you are getting more comfortable with the sticks. I have had the same problem as you. Now after 150 rounds with a 375 H & H and 200 rounds with a 300 Mag. I can say I can hit what I aim at out to 150 yards. I am sure it has to do with practice, practice and practice. I now only hope I can hit at real targets instead of paper. From this forum 2 weeks ago it was suggested trying speed shots from the shooting sticks, I was very happy with the results. Had my wife time me after 1st shot at 100 yards, then a paper plate at 50 yards, then another paper plate at 15 yards. My time was 10 seconds, accuracy in the 10 ring at 100, 4" from center at both 50 and 15 yards. Feel much more confident now. Leaving for Zim in 11 days. 1 more weekend to practice.
BobGA

With all due respect, being in the record book means absolutely NOTHING as far as hunting is concerned.



I bet there are as many, if not more, hunters who never enter their trophies in any record book.



Does that mean they are any less of hunters.



Now to the subject of using shooting sticks.



I like to use them. And have found that because of me being shorter than all the PH I hunt with, I tend to just get hold of the side of the sticks, and put my rifle on my arm.



Works just as well for my controlled flinch.



Of course, wobbly shooting sticks are never as good as using your PH shoulders for a rest

Please people, lets not take the shooting with or without sticks too damn seriously. 99% of the time, person asking for help does what he was going to do anyway! If your remarks aren't being treated as gospel, let it slide-life is too short!

Does anyone use a monopod? I suspect that you would get about 90% of the steadying benefit while being a lot faster to set up. You can also use it as a walking stick, which means you have it with you and don't have to wait for someone else to set it up.

Also, unlike a tripod but maybe like a bipod, you can stick it on the ground and then move backward slightly if you want to lower the elevation, making the angle of the monopod tilt slightly toward you.

I also think that, with a hard "V" for a rest instead of using your hand, your rifle will shoot high.