So once all of this China flu crap is over I'm thinking about a DG hunt in Africa. Probably a buff with a tuskless as I have seen some good package deals. I don't know if it matters but this would be my first trip to Africa. I think a lever 45/70 would be sweet to hunt with. Any recommendations for ammo, rifles, shot placement, etc.?

Thanks

Personally I would not use a 45/70 for DG. Standard load generates about 2,850 ft-lbs of energy with a 300 grain bullet. By contrast a 300 grain bullet from a .375 H&H generates 4,350 ft-lbs which I would consider minimum for an elephant.

Have people shot DG with a 45/70? Yes, but don't forget you pay the trophy fee once an animal is wounded. Better to have too much gun than not enough.

Not again!

AXEL19,
wHAT YOU SPEAK OF HAS BEEN DONE MANY TIMES.

MY .45-90 HAS DONE IT AND SO Has my 1895 .405 WCF. So has the 1886 .45-70 of my best hunting buddy. Such hunting may be easier with other rifles, but it is no more rewarding.



You will see many hunters that are like sheep, repeating /chanting about the favorite cartridge/rifle of their favorite outdoor writer. That is their right, but most of them have never hunted with a .45-70, much less a .45-90 that shoots 450 gain Kodiak FMJ at 2150 fps MV. There are hunters on this site that have hunted with those lever action rifles and also some that have taken DG with handguns! If a hand gun can do it, you know a rifle can too.

To get the facts straight, search the Internet for .45-70 for DG or 45-70 ammo for DG. There are at lest four American ammo makers whose ammo has done what you want.

If you get backtalk from know-it-all outfitters with no .45-70 experience, I can provide you a name or two that have catered to levergun hunters (me among them) and they will be glad to help you out. Please be patient with those not familiar with lever action rifle performance, they may have just lived a protected life.

Good hunting!

As long as you do it where legal

Botswana
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Botswana is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Botswana does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Burkina Faso
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Burkina Faso.
• Burkina Faso does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Cameroon
• For Group 3 - Big Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .354 caliber or larger.
• Cameroon does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Central African Republic
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Central African Republic is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Central African Republic does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Ethiopia
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Ethiopia.
• Ethiopia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique.
• Mozambique does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Namibia
• Big Game
5400 Joule
(Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.)

South Africa
• Most provinces do not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting and rely on common sense.
• Some provinces require a minimum of .375 caliber for dangerous or big game hunting.
• No provinces require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Tanzania
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Tanzania does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zambia
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting such as Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.
• Zambia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zimbabwe
• Class A Game 5300 Joule Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)

As far as I know the 45-70 rifle, regardless of the action type is legal for hunting dangerous game in most of Africa.

With proper bullets, and stout handloads I see no reason to not use a rifle so chambered for that round, if that is what you want to hunt with.
I have several rifles chambered for 45-70 and have used them in most places where some dangerous game exists. I have single shots, lever actions, and double rifles so chambered.
Though they may be legal in most places, I must say in Alaska, and Canada, I much prefer my bolt action 375 H&H rifles, because of the better long range capabilities, and long distance retainment of on target speed, and energy.

Though I love my old 45-70s, in Africa I much prefer my two rifle availability, a scoped 375 H&H, and a 470NE double rifle. Others may do as it suits, as long as it is legal!

…...……............Opinions are like A-holes everybody has one and the above is mine!
….........…......……...

If it’s legal and you want to use it, use it.
I’m guessing that particular caliber was used to stir the pot. I doubt the same thread would have been made if you were toying with taking a 375.

We are all bored. However, I’ll throw a bone out there:

-.45-70
-.500/.460 S&W
-Bow

I’ll take a 9.3x74R or .375 because I can shoot them, but what about the above options?

I have absolutely no problem hunting with a 45/70, any game animal.

Having shot hundreds of all sorts of dangerous game, I have no doubt about this.

45-70 with good bullets will be fine. However, I would advise broadside shots only.

Get nice and close.

Yes! In a strong action and with good bullets of 400 grains or more you will have no problem.
Many years ago a gent wrote an article over a few issues in the African Hunter of taking the big 5 with a .45-70. I recall it was a Marlin 1895. Really poorly written and full of self glory (after each kill it was a party). But, the ballistics and kills were the point and it was very convincing.
Do it and make memories!
Cal

It’s like using a pipe wrench to pound nails, instead of using a proper hammer.

It can be done, but it’s not the right tool for the job.

Really poorly written and full of self glory !


Did he give the buffalo a choice of how to die before he started glorifying himself?

I've got some Buffalo Bore .45-70 available.

Carmelo is back!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Really poorly written and full of self glory !


Did he give the buffalo a choice of how to die before he started glorifying himself?

Come now, Saeed. You have read Mark's books and enjoyed them and you know it.
Cal
PS. And, in Mark's adverts for his hunting he mever mentions tips.

For me the big variable is the quality of bullet that you use. In my limited experience big, good, bullets, .500 - .577 really work, even at velocities as low as 1700 fps. A flat wide meplat solid bullet is great for buffalo.
Deep, straight penetration and wide permanent wound channel.

If it was me I would happily hunt cape buffalo with a 45-70 if I used a bullet like the Cutting Edge Bullet solid at top 45-70 lever velocity, and got within 50 yds of the animal.

(I don't know anything about killing elephant.)

Enjoy your hunt. Brian

Since it’s stated dangerous game...

To me, on elephant and rhino a .45-70 would be a stunt. Yes, a cow elephant it would work for brain shots with the right bullet, and body shots should work... Rhino? Limited experience on my part, but if a .416 Rigby with a wide meplat bullet doesn’t exit, then a .45-70 won’t penetrate nearly as much.

Yes, in the black powder days, weapons with less performance were used... and folks also got killed regularly. Sure a handgun or bow can take them, but as a stunt as well IMO.

If you limit it to buffalo and the cats, it’s a bit more tricky to ensure a good shot for proper placement of your bullet, but there I have no doubts the .45-70 is more than able to kill the quarry in rapid fashion.

I can make bullets myself for it, and I am sure it will handle anything I want from it.

Including elephant bulls.

A side brain shot should not be outside its capabilities.

Teddy Roosevelt took Lion, Rhino and many other dangerous game with his .405 Model 1895 Winchester. Certainly was not a "stunt"!

Check out a fellow named Pete Swanepoel. He has a website/blog featuring lever Marlins in 45-70, and doesn't have any problem taking elephant, hippo, and lion with his 45-70 and cast bullets.

I have been to RSA three times, twice with a 45-110, and once with a 45-70, both rifles being Sharps single shots. I use PROPER cast bullets exclusively, and barrel buckhorn open sights. I have taken animals from 50 to 547 laser measured yards in Africa, and have NO DOUBT that I can shoot through the skull of an elephant with either rifle, properly loaded. Use a 480 to 500 grain flatnosed hardcast bullet at 1300 to 1500 fps, and you are good to go. The penetration will astound you. One of my friends took a Cape buffalo with his 45-70 shooting a 535 grain paper patched bullet from 30 yards, and the animal was down within 40 yards. He also got nine feet of penetration on an eland from rear to front with his Sharps. Penetration is there with a 45-70 at the right velocity and a proper hardcast bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
45-70 with good bullets will be fine. However, I would advise broadside shots only.

Get nice and close.

………………………………….. Agreed, MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana91:
Teddy Roosevelt took Lion, Rhino and many other dangerous game with his .405 Model 1895 Winchester. Certainly was not a "stunt"!

How many got away and were not recovered shot by Old Teddy? His books wouldn't print that part of the story.
You know as well as anyone here that in those days there were far less rules where people like Teddy were cut a break that would not be offered today to you and I.
I see nothing wrong with the use of the old 45-70 with modern bullets like those made by Saeed, and loaded up properly. However a box of 45-70 ammo from Winchester AIN'T GONA CUT IT.
...………...…………...………… MacD37

MacD37+ others,
Agreed that the bullet must be right for the job.

WE took a wide variety of bullets to Africa for our 1886 .45-70 and .45-90 bullets tests, including hard cast from multiple makers. As expected , they shot through PG and Cape Buff (if they hit no big bones); all game died, but many bullets were diverted within the bodies and some had lost a lot of weight.

For ele, we used only premium bullets. There were copper, brass, and heavy copper jacketed FMJ of 450 grains weight. They were North Fork FPS, Punch (brass with lead filled base), and Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak heavy jacket 450 grain FMJ.
On frontal brain shots from 20 yards, the Kodiak at 2150 fps knocked the ele to it's knees, stunned, and the bullet expanded as it reached the brain and stopped there(not surprising as it was not a solid).

Both North Fork fps and Punch bullets at velocities between 2000 fps and 2050 fps shot through the brain, head, and into the body of the ele.
As expected, all the premium bullets performed well on the Cape Buff with mostly shoot-throughs an few spent bullet recoveries.

For the record, our chosen shooter had in the past taken many buff with his 1886 .45-70 and ele and buff with his 450/400 DR. It was understood that such experience was needed for proper testing for the rifles and ammo and not for the shooter.

I am sure it can be done. There is a plethora of high quality .458gr solids, and if you can safely push something from 400gr on up at velocities approaching, say, 2000fps it seems reasonable. I like the 45-90 idea better.

Personally, I like using a tool that will sort things out if everything doesn’t go just right. Having been in my share of cow elephant herds, I can tell you even my 470 feels like a toothpick. I wouldn’t like feeling any more overmatched than I already do.

That being said, I am trying to work up a load for a 400gr solid for my Big Horn Armory 500 S&W lever gun. If I can get 2000fps, having 7 of those in the tube would be pretty reassuring.

I tend to think of dangerous game as elephant, and all those other animals.

quote:

I tend to think of dangerous game as elephant, and all those other animals.

Right on! Now you are talking like Cal Pappas!

My .45-90 has a 26 inch barrel and there fore a long tubular magazine. Lots of "go bang" there if needed.

Keep us posted on your heavy loads for that BIG bore levergun of yours.

Sharpsguy, Yes. I killed three cape buffalo with hard cast .577 bullets, 52 BHN, at 1650fps. All were one shot kills. Hard cast bullets with a flat nose at moderate velocities are often under rated. Brian

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
MacD37+ others,
Agreed that the bullet must be right for the job.

WE took a wide variety of bullets to Africa for our 1886 .45-70 and .45-90 bullets tests, including hard cast from multiple makers. As expected , they shot through PG and Cape Buff (if they hit no big bones); all game died, but many bullets were diverted within the bodies and some had lost a lot of weight.

For ele, we used only premium bullets. There were copper, brass, and heavy copper jacketed FMJ of 450 grains weight. They were North Fork FPS, Punch (brass with lead filled base), and Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak heavy jacket 450 grain FMJ.
On frontal brain shots from 20 yards, the Kodiak at 2150 fps knocked the ele to it's knees, stunned, and the bullet expanded as it reached the brain and stopped there(not surprising as it was not a solid).

Both North Fork fps and Punch bullets at velocities between 2000 fps and 2050 fps shot through the brain, head, and into the body of the ele.
As expected, all the premium bullets performed well on the Cape Buff with mostly shoot-throughs an few spent bullet recoveries.

For the record, our chosen shooter had in the past taken many buff with his 1886 .45-70 and ele and buff with his 450/400 DR. It was understood that such experience was needed for proper testing for the rifles and ammo and not for the shooter.

here is the info on the Punch. A solid, I would think it would work as well as a Winchester yellow box in .458 Win Mag made 10 years or so ago.

https://gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
It’s like using a pipe wrench to pound nails, instead of using a proper hammer.

It can be done, but it’s not the right tool for the job.

with the exception of leopard, the 45/70 is NOT a dangerous game cartridge.

Would you want a 45/70 in your hands with a charging Ele barreling down on you? I wouldn't!!!

quote:

Originally posted by drongo:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
It’s like using a pipe wrench to pound nails, instead of using a proper hammer.

It can be done, but it’s not the right tool for the job.

with the exception of leopard, the 45/70 is NOT a dangerous game cartridge.

Add Lion to that list.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Would you want a 45/70 in your hands with a charging Ele barreling down on you? I wouldn't!!!

I think that would then be the PH responsibility. Then again no PH I know carries a 45-70. I keep one for security at my house. Great gun and fun to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Would you want a 45/70 in your hands with a charging Ele barreling down on you? I wouldn't!!!

I think that would then be the PH responsibility. Then again no PH I know carries a 45-70. I keep one for security at my house. Great gun and fun to shoot.

Andrew, I know you are a great PH and all, and I mean that sincerely, but man, I just hate that philosophy to the core.

I know one of the PH's primary jobs is to ensure the client's safety, but I never want to pitch up on safari with the attitude that the PH is going to save my bacon no matter what. I always try to show up well versed and practiced with my weapon.

As to using a 45/70 for DG, sure. It's been done but

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Would you want a 45/70 in your hands with a charging Ele barreling down on you? I wouldn't!!!

I agree with the above! I happen to have a double rifle chambered for the wild cat 458 RCBS which is simply a flanged 458 Win Mag, and I don't even like the 458 Win Mag, and would much rather have my 470 NE double if I ran into a pissed off elephant in close quarters, and even then I would love having a PH to back my play.
For the cats from a blind on bait I would not worry about the outcome of a shot to the boiler room of leopard, or lion, with a 45-70 but would still like having the PH to accompany me in a follow up in the bush for one of the cats wounded. There I would rather have a machinegun with a 40 round clip. MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Would you want a 45/70 in your hands with a charging Ele barreling down on you? I wouldn't!!!

I think that would then be the PH responsibility. Then again no PH I know carries a 45-70. I keep one for security at my house. Great gun and fun to shoot.

Andrew, I know you are a great PH and all, and I mean that sincerely, but man, I just hate that philosophy to the core.

I know one of the PH's primary jobs is to ensure the client's safety, but I never want to pitch up on safari with the attitude that the PH is going to save my bacon no matter what. I always try to show up well versed and practiced with my weapon.

As to using a 45/70 for DG, sure. It's been done but

I agree Todd but we deal with some odd characters and calibers in life.

quote:

I agree Todd but we deal with some odd characters

Andrew, you just replied to one :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I agree Todd but we deal with some odd characters

Andrew, you just replied to one :-)

If any of you are like me, I'm always looking for an excuse to buy a new gun and a hunting trip is as good as an excuse that you can get....
If one is going to Africa for the first time what better excuse can one have to buy an "African Gun"
Hell every time I return to Africa I'm looking for an excuse to buy another "African Gun"

No

"...Andrew, I know you are a great PH and all, and I mean that sincerely, but man, I just hate that philosophy to the core.

I know one of the PH's primary jobs is to ensure the client's safety, but I never want to pitch up on safari with the attitude that the PH is going to save my bacon no matter what. I always try to show up well versed and practiced with my weapon..."



I know one man who is pretending to be a professional hunter whose sole purpose in life is to glorify himself!

The question here was if it can be used to kill dangerous game.

It can, and without any question, kill anything that walks this earth.

Right here on this forum members are using handguns to do just that.

Personally, I would prefer the 45/70 to any handgun.