My opinion is that PHASA should have suspended Lion Hunting in RSA and not totally put an end to captive bred hunting.

Plains Game will be the next target. Anti Hunting Groups will never stop. This is simply a battle that they won and they will not stop until they win the war.

It is just a matter of time before we will no longer be able to hunt here in America. My hypothesis is that it is as little as 50 years away. Look at the Electoral Votes and how elections are won. The majority rule in this country. We have a median age of 35 in the US. Most of these people do not care for hunting. Believe it or not, but all of us on here are Dinosaurs! We have to fight to protect all aspects of legal hunting for the limited amount of time the sport has left.

Pet lions should be removed from the record books and PHASA, DSC, and SCI should state that pet lion shooting is not hunting, therefore they want no part of it. Done and finished.

But if pet lion shooting is banned, farm hunting is next followed by hunting in general. That is crystal clear to most of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Pet lions should be removed from the record books and PHASA, DSC, and SCI should state that pet lion shooting is not hunting, therefore they want no part of it. Done and finished.

But if pet lion shooting is banned, farm hunting is next followed by hunting in general. That is crystal clear to most of us.

You make an interesting point..canned lion hunts would probably dry up real fast if SCI and the likes removed them from their record books. I have little hope that they would take that step from what I've seen at the conventions...Canned lion hunts and trophies are so prominently displayed one might get the idea that it's all they stand for.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

Pet lions should be removed from the record books and PHASA, DSC, and SCI should state that pet lion shooting is not hunting, therefore they want no part of it. Done and finished.

That is one of the better statements I have read and could not agree more. It is my hope the hunting organizations and hunters in general evolve to voluntarily end this practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

But if pet lion shooting is banned, farm hunting is next followed by hunting in general. That is crystal clear to most of us.

This is the part I cannot agree with 100% and do not believe it to be crystal clear. Hunting is in peril and we could see it end in the next decade. The hunting ban in Botswana had nothing to do with pet lions in South Africa, nor did the closures in Zambia. So whether canned lion hunting is ended or not I do not believe it to be the sole (or even a major) factor in the demise of hunting.

It is difficult for me to condemn any form of LEGAL hunting, even the pet lion hunting. However, deep down I truly believe it would be to the betterment of the hunting world if the pet lion shooting ended. My concern is the vast majority of the population who are basically neutral on hunting. When they turn against us we are doomed. Shooting a lion in an enclosure that was released the day before is hard to defend in the eyes of your average duck/deer hunter much less the general public.

Either we evolve or die.

It is far from doom and gloom. The future of hunting is fairly bright. Positively rosy in Zambia. If countries want to deny imports then we will adapt and go forth.

Mike, I was addressing the notion that if we give them the pet lion hunting, the antis will be satisfied.

To your point, the antis are only going to be satisfied when every form of hunting is extinguished. And unfortunately as we have seen, they have a far stronger ground game and far more successes in Africa than we do.

We have an opportunity to show that by supporting the anti-hunting movement you're actually harming locals who have no other source of revenue. The antis are not rushing in to provide assistance once hunting had been removed. Furthermore, IF the antis were truly interested in ending hunting while supporting the local communities, they would purchase every animal up for tender and care for them until they die of natural causes. This would help both the communities AND the animals. But you don't see them doing that. They just want to tell everyone else how to act and to hell with the locals. That is the real story we should be telling.

Opus,

I agree with what you are saying. The antis just want hunting ended not matter the detrimental affect to the people or animals.

To your point, the photo industry has not done what they promised in Botswana. They took over a few prime areas and rest are in limbo. Some of the Bots guys could comment more on this.

Andrew,

At times I do become pessimistic about our future in hunting. The optimism I do have is borne from the operators on the ground such as yourself. Your story and so many like I should be shared. The problem is it falls on mostly deaf ears.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
Opus,

I agree with what you are saying. The antis just want hunting ended not matter the detrimental affect to the people or animals.

To you point, the photo industry has not done what they promised in Botswana. They took over a few prime areas and rest are in limbo. Some of the Bots guys could comment more on this.

Andrew,

At times I do become pessimistic about our future in hunting. The optimism I do have is borne from the operators on the ground such as yourself. Your story and so many like I should be shared. The problem is it falls on mostly deaf ears.

My project seems to be flavour of the month and is now being duplicated in Zambia. Trick is for rural communities to be dependant on the management of their lands and wildlife. Let the antis try and take away incomes and social benefits.

I want to put my community in a position that they can consider legal action to protect their way of life and the finances that support it.

Something like that.

However I was quite shocked to see the Born Free foundation quote a statistic that safari hunting in Zambia contributed 1.8% to Tourism when the Ministry and Wildlife Department claims somewhere in the region of 52%. I predict more now cats will come on board and we are once again fully operational.

For us hunting will not stop. We will adapt and may have to look at new markets.

The battle is far from lost. The challenge is how to make the sport relevant to the general public in today's world. Stories like the one below, that actually ran on CBS last week, are a start. More can be done and the NRA is working on doing it. I do not subscribe to the theory espoused by some that giving up an inch will ultimately result in us losing the entire sport. To the contrary, conceding things that should have been conceded long ago, such as canned lion hunting, will actually be necessary to preserve the sport.


From CBS This Morning
November 25, 2015
Video


Texas chef pioneers game-to-table movement

Chef Jesse Griffiths has an unusual office -- a couple of them, actually.

When he's not outdoors hunting for himself, he's usually in the kitchen of his restaurant, preparing game that he buys from local ranches, reports CBS News correspondent Jeff Glor.

"I'm glad to see that hunting is becoming a little more normalized," Griffiths said.

Wild boar confit, duck wings and venison ceviche -- Griffiths' restaurant and butcher shop, Dai Due, is both a modern hot spot and an old school throwback, located in Austin, Texas.

"You said hunting is thought of part of the gun culture and you think it should be thought of as part of the food culture?" Glor asked Griffiths.

"Absolutely," he responded. "People confuse that a lot. ... I'm not a gun nut. I do have guns, obviously because I hunt, but I'm not obsessed with them. Hunting is ... like having a garden, raising chickens, anything like that. It's direct sourcing."

Griffiths said he found a lot of people who knew how to hunt, but didn't know what to do with the game.

"We want to either teach new hunters how to do the whole process or we want to teach established hunters how to get the most out of their game...If you're going to kill it, you should utilize it," Griffiths said.

Griffiths' favorite target and taste is an animal that's become an enormous problem in Texas: the wild boar.

"They're a huge agriculture nuisance. They cause millions and millions of dollars' worth of damage," Griffiths said. "But the thing is, they're highly edible. They're delicious. So, I mean, not a lot of times in life are you presented with a problem that you can eat. So as far as problems go, I think it's kind of a good one."

At Dai Due, we sampled his wild boar bratwurst, venison hot dogs and egg-topped tamales. The meat here may be wild, but it's all approved by the Texas Department of Health.

The transparency in Griffiths' restaurant is visible even in the kitchen.

"When you walk in, we want you to see the whole process of everything we're doing. It's very likely you're going to see butchering an animal. I mean, and right next to that, they'll be making pie or bread," Griffiths said. "I wanted people to see the process, 'cause we're so removed from every process in the food system right now. You know, it just comes to you in these pretty packages and I wanted people to be able to see the kitchen. It also keeps us honest. You know, we don't have a can opener back there because we bring in everything fresh."

Guests have varying reactions to the process.

"I have heard of sometimes people are put off by it, but the only difference is, is that it would be behind a wall. It's just being honest," Griffiths said.

In Griffiths' restaurant, there is almost no waste. In the kitchen, and as we saw, on people's plates.

"If you don't have the means, or the land, or the will to hunt, but you want to eat meat and you want to eat game, what's the recommendation?" Glor asked.

"I would say make friends with a hunter," Griffiths said.

"Being able to ask questions and make connections with people that are producing food is the key element," he added.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeBurke:

To you point, the photo industry has not done what they promised in Botswana. They took over a few prime areas and rest are in limbo. Some of the Bots guys could comment more on this.

QUOTE]


These are open questions for anyone that might know:

Are there figures out there as to how many "problem lions" have been shot in the last year in Botswana?

What about "problem elephants"?

If those numbers are being tracked, it would be interesting to know if they have increased significantly since the ban on hunting public lands.