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Better get your Cheetahs while you can, looks like they are next for uplisting. http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/...sappearing-research/ | ||
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I have shot two. Couldn't import either one. Full time professional trapper | |||
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Hey Tom, I'm simply curious as to why you would go to the trouble to kill an animal you can't import? Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Steve, Why would go to the trouble of catching a fish you don't import?? Go Duke!! | |||
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Simply for the sport of it. Further, on the trip to Brazil I just returned from, There were some Piraiba not surviving. Several caught and released by the group in before us and one from our trip (likely a fish I caught) had died. We, as a group decided (right then) to NOT target anymore of this species. Two additional were caught while fishing in a manner that usually doesn't catch Piraiba. The cause of the deaths was unknown. I have caught and released 25-30 of these, all successfully. My suspicion was an irregularly high water temperature at depth. I see no similarities in catch and release fishing and shooting two Cheetahs simply for sport (or maybe a picture). I realize that I am an outlier on this issue, no apologies. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I hunt for the experience of the hunt, not to import trophies. I love tracking hunts. My favorite hunts are buffalo and elephant,...especially elephant. I've done multiple trophy and non-export hunts for elephant bulls. To me, the non-export hunts are just as fun as the trophy hunts. Quite honestly, I doubt that I will keep any of the trophies on my next African hunt. Photos are fine for me. By the way, in eleven safaris I've never shot or even hunted any of the cats. I have no interest in cheetahs, leopards or lions. I'd rather hunt elephant and buffalo, and photos are enough for me. I realize that I am also an outlier. Go Duke!! | |||
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On my first hunt in Namibia I was told to shoot Jackals or cheetahs on sight. PH was primarily a farmer. Luckily I didn't see ant cheetahs. Caleb | |||
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We were hunting in Namibia and saw a total of 6 on a 10 day safari. My PH said that if I didn't shoot it, he was going to. He did not charge me any fees because he knew I couldn't bring them back. He also said that if they were legal to import he could charge a 10k trophy fee and then he wouldn't shoot them himself. Also at the time Conservation force was involved in a lawsuit to get importation legalized. So there was a small chance that I could import them. I filed for the permits but the suit was lost. I ended up giving the skins to the PH's Italian father. They are in Italy now. I have a home full of trophies but moving forward I see myself importing less. Full time professional trapper | |||
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Something similar happened to me in Namibia. The landowner of the farm upon which we were hunting asked us to shoot a cheetah that was harassing his black-faced impala. I was interested, but when I learned form the PH there would be a $2,000 trophy fee for an animal I could only take a picture of, I passed, hoping for something else I could eat and/or bring home. The landowner shook his head at us, grabbed his rifle, and killed the offending cheetah. It was then I realized the ignorance of our USFWS. If importation was legal, I would have shot the cat and left 2 grand in the economy. The cheetah would have been a nice rug instead of worm food. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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I also shot two cheetahs that I could not import. In my situation the ranch owner told me to "shoot those bastards" so I did. I did not pay a trophy fee. The rancher hated them because they killed calves from time to time and they would cause his cattle to stampede and destroy his fences. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Hi Jason, Long time since we've communicated here. When I first started hunting in Africa, I too would shoot in that situation. I was a bit reckless and had a "Whack N Stack" mentality. (not insinuating you are a newbie) I wanted mounts and lots of em. I have matured and don't really feel the need to kill things without them being what I'm after and in a manner that makes me feel good about it. As Fulvio stated, "killing stuff just for the hell of it" doesn't do anything for me. . . at all. Again, not judging anyone else, just me. The thought of stopping a beating heart, simply to take a Trophy picture with it for me, isn't something that interest me. Being completely introspective, one might ask, is it any more right to kill if you make full utilization of the Trophy? Who's to say what is right or wrong. I was in Zambia a few years back, we were driving along the road that follows the Luangwa river. We saw a Chobe Bushbuck, not of note, an average ram. The PH told me "Shoot it." I told him "Nah" got plenty and thats not even a nice one. He was a bit perturbed that I passed it. I went on to explain to him that I don't see the point. I have lots of Bushbucks mounted and can't really justify the 750.00 for an animal I'm not here to shoot. Ultimately we are responsible for our shots, If a PH tells me to shoot and I choose not to for whatever reason, Its my decision and mine alone. I passed a shot last year in Tanzania at a Buffalo. I didn't like; the distance, the presentation and the cover between us. All the way back to the truck, he pissed and moaned about it. He stated that if I won't take that shot, I might not kill three Buffalo. I've been on the trail of wounded Buffalo too many times. As most of you know, its not a good feeling. One which I hope never to repeat. I can pass a poor shot to avoid the potential. Not to mention the loss of a TF. I am my own man, If a PH insists on something getting shot, he's welcome to my rifle. Again, I realize many love to shoot the place up, nothing wrong with that if its your desire. Take care, Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Steve, You and me need to share a few good days in Africa with talk like that. Cheers ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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What is the financial incentive for the PH? If the safari operator has to purchase quota there is an incentive to pass that cost onto the hunter. I am not saying that should influence the hunter but am just trying to understand the PH's attitude. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I was a lot younger then(and suffered from a bit of blood lust as many younger hunters do). Even so, the rancher is/was a friend and he allowed me to hunt for free quite a bit. I felt that I was doing him a favor and that I owed him that. I would most likely do the same given a similar situation today. But I have found that I have lost my lust for the kill. Maybe it is the fact that I turned 40 and have a 7 year-old daughter who hunts with me or maybe it is just the fact that I have "put enough notches in my gunstock". This year I killed an antelope and a couple of mule deer and found that I was "done for the year". I had a bull elk tag but I had no interest in trying to fill it so we stayed home. The more I hunt less I feel the "need" to kill. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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You might also want to ask the landowner/PH if he has the appropriate permits and quote to just arbitrarily kill stuff too. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Cheetahs continue to be serious pests in a pretty big area in northern Namibia. Their current "status" is purely a result of effective lobbying by some do gooders, mostly Americans. The scenario described above appears to be a reaction to the inroads the cheetahs are making, not to secure trophy fees. | |||
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Lions are pretty big pests as well around Etosha but that doesn't mean you can shoot on sight. Well, you can, but there may be significant repercussions... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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On a side note - I am surprised how hardy and resilient the Cheetah is. Surprised to see desert cheetah surviving and recently caught on camera in Mali. Not sure if cheetah still survive in the wild in Iran. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I too passed on an opportunity to shoot a cheetah in Namibia. The PH was saying "shoot, shoot." I never lifted the rifle - instead watching a beautiful, graceful animal bound away. I then got a "lesson" about how many springbok they killed and why they should be shot on sight. Made no difference. Nobody was going to eat it. The skin wouldn't grace my living room. And others would be the lesser for not having seen such a beautiful animal. Maybe it was shot the next day, next week, next month by someone else - but not by me. When we got back to the lodge, I got another "lesson" from the landowner. To this day I wouldn't waste such a beautiful animal in the name of vermin control. | |||
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Just an observation, nothing more. With fishing, Catch and Release is a reality, even though some fish do die. I have been hunting for 50 years, and I have NEVER seen anything that I shot that could be released back into the environment!!! I have never went to Africa or even actually wanted to, BUT, even though I would not want to shoot one, I can see shooting a Leopard or a Lion, no problem. Shooting a Cheetah however seems about as sporting as shooting someones pet dog. Just my opinion, nothing more, but I can see shooting Servals and Caracals, along with the two previousl;y listed big cats, but a Cheetah, Good Grief! I mean it is even more ludicrous when you cannot import the trophy! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CH - Anyone who has been around rhino would just as soon shoot their pickup truck as a rhino. In my opinion there is a lot of game that just does not need to be shot on sight. I shoot a lot of Jackal because they hammer the hell out of Springbok. But I have never thought of shooting a Cheetah even though they also hammer Springbok. Does not make sense, but as a hunter/shooter it only has to make sense to me. Some predators get a pass, others not so much. Life isn't fair. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I darted a White Rhino to claim my Big 5. It wound up being far more exciting than what I expected. had it been with a rifle, I agree, my pick-up would offer as much challenge. I would not shoot a Cheetah either, same reason, it only needs to matter to me. Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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When I hunted in northern Namibia a number of years ago, game ranchers were not fond of cheetahs because unlike a leopard, which will take its kill up a tree and eat on it until it would gag a maggot, a cheetah makes a kill and eats fast until the hyenas drive it off the kill. Then it kills again the next day. And, I'm told that even if the hyenas don't drive them off the kill, they will only eat fresh meat, so they will still kill the next day. Not real compatible with game ranches. Personally, I'll never shoot one, but each to his own, as long as it's legal. | |||
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I must be the only one to have travelled to Namibia and failed to close the deal on a cheetah.. To think its a slam dunk and easy to hunt a cheetah you have not been there. And yes we can import them also. | |||
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Both Cheetah & Wild Dogs are the two most destructive species in the wild, have insatiable appetites and the latter which roam in packs, will work an area and decimate the game in a very short time frame. Cheetahs are less destructive but they too will concentrate on an area until it has been cleaned out. Wild Dogs should IMO be removed from the endangered list (TZ for sure has no shortage). | |||
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There are some animals i personally wouldn't hunt. Cheetah is on top of that list | |||
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Was in Namibia last October and our outfitter said that if we saw a cheetah and didn't shoot it he would charge us. Only joking of course but they are an animal that has always fascinated me and I'm sort of glad that I didn't have to shoot one. Would have loved to see one in the wild that didn't present a shooting opportunity. The hunting imperative was part of every man's soul; some denied or suppressed it, others diverted it into less blatantly violent avenues of expression, wielding clubs on the golf course or racquets on the court, substituting a little white ball for the prey of flesh and blood. Wilbur Smith | |||
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I can agree with all that. When people find out I shot a Musk Ox and ask what that was like, I tell them to go shoot a small car. The thrill/excitement is the trip to where the things live. Coyotes down in this area are shot on sight, even from the county roads. Bobcats are pretty much the same Having been around Cheetahs while working at the zoo, I could see where they could be rough on springbok, especially the young, but after being able to study them up close, it looks like their species are limited to the smaller antelope and the young of some of the larger species. I can't see that they would be all that hard on Gemsbok/Gnu and the other larger species. After reading about a guy somewhere in South Africa I believe that used to catch Cheetahs for zoos, using hounds and once the cat was brought to bay, supposedly he would drive up to it in his truck, jump out scruff the cat, grab it at the base of the tail and toss it into a cage in the truck bed. Now having a video of doing something like that might be a neat way of doing something with a Cheetah. Start a whole new "Hunting" concept, "Redneck Cheetah Hunts - Hold My Beer And Watch This Shit!!" Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Some animals are at the top of the pyramid, others are just dinner. Can't blame Cheetahs for eating Springbok, I do too. Anyhow, the last time I checked the Springbok is not on the endangered list. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I try to look at things from the landowners perspective whether there or here in the US. If my outfitter says "shoot that cheetah" and is emphatic about it, I'm shooting. Same thing goes for the landowner who says shoot every coyote and feral hog you see. I oblige that request. To each his own I guess, but I have zero interest in shooting elephants, rhinos, hippos, and several others. | |||
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African animals are controlled/protected under quotas. Here in the States many nuisance species are open season. So just because an African landowner tells you to shoot, you might want to ask a few questions first or you might find yourself in a similar position as a now very famous Dentist who didn't ask all the appropriate questions. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I'm under the impression cheetahs' can be legally hunted in Namibia. | |||
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They can under quota. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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In Namibia, it’s also legal for farmers to kill cheetahs when they feel their livestock are threatened, correct? | |||
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MET issues special permits for problem predatory animals. Typically Cheetahs don't kill cattle, but can and do hammer goats so they are not perceived to be in the same threat issue as a problem lion. Problem animals are non-exportable and culling permits are issued on a case by case basis. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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It boils down to the concept that if a person wants to shoot a Cheetah and it is legal, by all means do it. Some people simply do not want to shoot a Cheetah. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Please stop it Opus1. Your making sense to me (in this thread)for the first time and it`s confusing me  Maybe I`m just tired  | |||
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