Saeed - I am not speaking for SCI. The "we" you are referring to is "we" hunters. As we hunters see fit. That's what the word we in this instance referes to.

As to the rest, "dead horse beating". Been there done that. Over and out.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

SCI will continue on it's path of defending us all from the anti hunting crowd out there. They will continue do defend the rights for all of us to hunt Worlwide as we see fit

Larry,

Are speaking for SCI?

You did say "we" in the above statement.

Frankly, I for one cannot see where SCI is actually defending my right to hunt anywhere in the world.

SCI seems to be embroiled in their self glory more than anything else.

The convention is their major source of income. Lots of that income comes from African outfitters.

Each time one of us dared to ask where is the money going, we get no answers or directed to their annual report.

This fiasco with Out of Africa has been going on for years.

Many people have complained about them.

They were banned in other countries.

Why did SCI not act before?

Is it because some higher ups in SCI had personal and financial interest in Out of Africa?

The management of SCI need to get their hands out of the cookie jar if they want to be taken serious by hunters.

Larry,

Mate, with all due respect the phrase 'to hunt Worlwide as we see fit' must beg the question does that include hunting on seized land and perhaps in contravention of other game laws such as shooting black rhino without a permit or in areas such as national parks which happens to be illegal?

OoA have been accused of all of those things and considerably more in the past and complaints have allegedly been filed with the ethics committee several times and allegedly the ethics committee allowed the company to come out of the hearings allegedly smelling of roses every time.

Frankly, I and I'm sure a whole lot of hunters here and elsewhere would prefer not to be included in that 'we'.

Whilst I'm sure that the vast majority who might have done these crimes were unaware they were doing them, I'm equally sure that some must have known things were not quite kosher to say the very least and did them anyway......

As I've said before, I don't think this thing should become an SCI witch hunt but I do believe that the corporation as a whole and for that matter individual members should condemn the guilty whether they be connected to OoA or SCI.

As far as the corporation goes, I'm somewhat surprised they don't seem to have addressed the issue at all and I reckon that their failure to do so is going to do them a lot of long term damage.

Incidentally, it would be internet libel rather than internet slander.

Steve - Wow - I guess you guys across the pond just don't speak the same as us overhere?? Or you just enjoy twisting words? I was merely stating that in the future SCI will still be out there fighting and making sure ALL of us will have the opportunity to continue to hunt Worldwide as "we" hunters see fit. Nothing in this statement refers to hunting illegally, with illegal outfitters, on seized land or the like. Geez!! Somehow I don't think SCI is out there working to help us ALL have the right to hunt illegal lands. How you came to that conclusion and read the above into it I'll never know??

As to the rest, same old "dead horse beating".

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

You guys are according SCI with as much power as Mugabe or Zuma.

A bunch of rich world hunters just got together to have a mutual admiration society and fete each others accomplishments on an annual basis. Then they figured out a way to play "My dog's bigger than your dog." with a record book. The Annual Members Convention is the same game you played in first grade called "Show & Tell." It's a trade show.

I heard just the other day that SCI was the group that bumped Jimmy Hoffa off.

Rich

quote:

A bunch of rich world hunters just got together to have a mutual admiration society and fete each others accomplishments on an annual basis. Then they figured out a way to play "My dog's bigger than your dog." with a record book

Rich,

That description fits SCI down to a T!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Steve - Wow - I guess you guys across the pond just don't speak the same as us overhere?? Or you just enjoy twisting words? I was merely stating that in the future SCI will still be out there fighting and making sure ALL of us will have the opportunity to continue to hunt Worldwide as "we" hunters see fit. Nothing in this statement refers to hunting illegally, with illegal outfitters, on seized land or the like. Geez!! Somehow I don't think SCI is out there working to help us ALL have the right to hunt illegal lands. How you came to that conclusion and read the above into it I'll never know??

As to the rest, same old "dead horse beating".

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry,

Actually buddy...... I appreciate Churchill described the US & UK as two nations divided by a common language but we Brits invented the language and then lent it to you guys to ruin. But be that as it may, I construed your statement to mean what it said.... perhaps I was wrong.

As for your statement: "I was merely stating that in the future SCI will still be out there fighting and making sure ALL of us will have the opportunity to continue to hunt Worldwide as "we" hunters see fit" Maybe the words 'ethical & legal manner' might have been more appropriate?

I don't really understand the way you apply the word 'still' in that statement?

Or did you mean it as in still failing to address the Moz elephant or Ethiopian leopard imports issues etc?

Don't worry buddy, a part of those comments are tongue in cheek and I hope you appreciate my humour more than you appreciate our language.

More seriously, I reckon John Jackson of Conservation Force does considerably more for hunters than SCI do and that hunters who truly wish to help hunting and it's future would be far better off giving their money to him than to SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

A bunch of rich world hunters just got together to have a mutual admiration society and fete each others accomplishments on an annual basis. Then they figured out a way to play "My dog's bigger than your dog." with a record book

Rich,

That description fits SCI down to a T!

Unfortunately, they're that and a whole lot more.........

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
You guys are according SCI with as much power as Mugabe or Zuma.

A bunch of rich world hunters just got together to have a mutual admiration society and fete each others accomplishments on an annual basis. Then they figured out a way to play "My dog's bigger than your dog." with a record book. The Annual Members Convention is the same game you played in first grade called "Show & Tell." It's a trade show.

I heard just the other day that SCI was the group that bumped Jimmy Hoffa off.

Rich

for once, Rich, i pretty much agree with everything you said- about SCI and it's management.i have been an SCI member for about 20 years and going to the convention for just about as long. have bought over a dozen "donated" hunts over the years. i vote with my money and i refuse to condone the bullshit SCI is shoveling BY SPENDING MORE MONEY WITH THEM. WHEN MY MEMBERSHIP EXPIRES NEXT MONTH IT STAYS EXPIRED. AND THEY WILL RECEIVE EMAIL EXPLAINING WHY. if enough members follow suit, it just might get their attention- or not. either way, i am done. still debating about whether to join DSC and go to their convention.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
for once, Rich, i pretty much agree with everything you said- about SCI and it's management.i have been an SCI member for about 20 years and going to the convention for just about as long. have bought over a dozen "donated" hunts over the years. i vote with my money and i refuse to condone the bullshit SCI is shoveling BY SPENDING MORE MONEY WITH THEM. WHEN MY MEMBERSHIP EXPIRES NEXT MONTH IT STAYS EXPIRED. AND THEY WILL RECEIVE EMAIL EXPLAINING WHY. if enough members follow suit, it just might get their attention- or not. either way, i am done. still debating about whether to join DSC and go to their convention.

In some ways it's actually a tragedy that a lot of truly good, well meaning people are finding themselves in the situation where they feel they need to resign.

SCI COULD be such a force for good for hunters and hunting and if they had a clear out of the bad aspects of the corporation, addressed this situation properly and then refocused on the things they could and should be doing then so very much could be achieved.

It strikes me that the bad aspects of the corporation are possibly also (largely at least) the ones in control and the reason they won't address the situation is pretty bloody obvious.

Then again, if my uncle had tits, she'd be my aunt.

All thats is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Looks like SCI have heard this quote before.

This letter emailed to PHASA members this morning:

SCI Statement : Dawie Groenewald & Out of Africa

As the SCI Director for Africa, I can confirm that both brothers Dawie and Janneman Groenewald, have not been members of Safari Club International since April 2010.

Following the arrest of Dawie Groenewald in the USA in January this year and the subsequent conviction in a USA court, which would have lead to an internal SCI Ethics Investigation and subsequent expulsion from SCI, both brothers resigned to avoid further investigations of misconduct by the organization.

Based on the above, and other extenuating circumstances and miss-leading information received pertaining to the “so-called“ new owners of Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris, the Company was officially denied membership and entrance as exhibitors to all future Safari Club International Conventions in the USA.

Linda J. Venter
Director : Africa
SCI Africa Office
Tel. 012 663 8073
Fax 012 663 8075
Int. Tel. 27 12 663 8073
www.scifirstforhunters.org

So SCI will only take action against companies or Individuals who are arrested and convicted in the US by a US court.

Expulsion from Zimbabwe for underhanded dealings and dubious relationships and clear and repeated transgressions of the law, clearly does not warrant any action in SCI's opinion.

Can anyone answer this question.
Did SCI investigate the accusations against OOas by the Zimbabweans and various other complaints , or were they simply ignored??

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
So SCI will only take action against companies or Individuals who are arrested and convicted in the US by a US court.

Expulsion from Zimbabwe for underhanded dealings and dubious relationships and clear and repeated transgressions of the law, clearly does not warrant any action in SCI's opinion.

Can anyone answer this question.
Did SCI investigate the accusations against OOas by the Zimbabweans and various other complaints , or were they simply ignored??

Why bother asking?

Both SCI and their so called "ethics" committee have become irrelevant as far as I am concerned!

From some of the messages I am getting, it seems the SCI "ethics" committe only acts when one of their top members assumes he is being wronged by someone.

Apparently the committee then meets on the double and judgement is passed without delay!

Not sure how true this, so it will be interesting if anyone can point me to past decisions made by this committee.

Saeed, That information is not true. The EC investigates the "possible" ethics violation...because you are inocent untill proven guily in the US... brings their findings and recomendations to the Board of Directors which are the presidents of some 198 chapters,at one of the three annual meetings. All 198 hear the charges and the rebutle and then all 198 vote in a closed session. All mebers are sworn not to discuss what is talked about in the closed meeting, not even to other SCI members...for liable reasons...under the threat of violation of bilaws and subject to expultion. The commity make the findings and decision know in the Safari Times news paper to all members.
Hope this helps straighten out some of the confution on how the EC really works. One of the last decissions made was against In Africa Safaris and the Coetzee family for violations. They were expelled from SCI and is no longer welcom at the convention. In Africa Safaris was also a long time exibitor and big donor to the SCI convetion, Guess he didn't know the right people.
Anthony