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A recent hunt report posted in The Hunting Report of a hunt in the Eastern Tarangire ecosystem that took place in Feb/March of this year, quotes the client claiming that in the last 2/3 years, most of the lion have been poisoned by the Maasai. I immagine he could only have received this info from the outfitter/PH? If that is the case, it just goes to show that time is running out! "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | ||
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That is why we do not employ Maasai in Zambia. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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 "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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I'll have to go back and read that hunt report. I was in Simanjiro in March. It was my first time there, so I do not know how many lions were there in the past, but we heard them every night, saw tracks and a couple of kills. I will say, there were an awful lot of cattle in there and down on the plains, some of the worst looking "farming" operations I've ever seen. The population is a very big concern for the future. | |||
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My one time experience was that while there were lots of Lion, there were a heck of a lot of people. That was probably a function of where I was, but my experience is that people and game just don't coexist all that well. Given that the Masai culture is what it is, cattle are king, and the lion is vermin to them. While the elders may value lions for the hunter's money and the photosafari crowd's presence, I think the average Masai will poison them rather than move his cattle. How fast the numbers drop, depends on the people holding the concessions, how well they choose appropriate offtake and how well they can partner with the locals. Unless the government can do something about the encroachment, it is a losing battle in the open areas. | |||
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The closing sentence sums it up - period! | |||
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So is the advice "Go now before it is too late" then?? Fairgame, its not just the Maasai. I wish it was! "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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+1 Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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I was in Mto Wa Mbu in March. I saw the human wave pressed up to the very border or Manyara Park and into the Crater itself. Until the population of humans is controlled and reduced, all we can do is, at best, slow the inevitable a very tiny bit. Make no mistake, we are losing and are going to lose, because we will not even accurately define the problem. But go ahead a lament the inevitable and continue bringing blue bags, and donating to various do gooders, give them medicine, build schools, drill wells, build churches teach the Maasai to farm, etc. But do not expect everyone to believe you are really concerned with wildlife. It's not politically correct, so I will just sit quietly and call Bullshit on those who say they want more lions and other animals and yet take affirmative action that helps increase the human population on the ground. | |||
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Speaking of the "Blue Bag". Last year we had a client and his wife from Canada in our camp at Matetsi. He had a Blue Bag with him. It was confiscated at the Vic Falls airport. A week later we received the bag after numerous trips and seeing this and that official to clear things up. Back in the hunting area, the bag was opened and handed over to the locals. A few photos and "ooohhhhs and aaahhhhs" and a few smiles later we were off. The next day my tracker informed me that the senior members of the village collected everything back that was in the bag and it was sold to another village with the profit going to the chief. If you give the locals something for free, they want more. If they earn it, they want less. They could not care a rats-ass if it is hunters, bunny-huggers or the survivors of the Titanic that gave them the stuff. They will smile and say the right things at the time but when all the eyes left, they will screw you over. The best is to find a way for them to earn something that will help them more than sitting in the shade and looking poor so that some tourist will feel sorry for them. We have now stopped bringing Blue-bags into the area. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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SG Olds & Fritz - Well said! Stop giving all of these people free "shit", whatever it may be. Free giving, only breeds free wanting - nothing more. Its not a solution, its a temporary "feel-good" moment for the giver, that's all. | |||
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Really or are you joking ? | |||
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Been through all this before - if you are going to leave them something, give them cash, saves them the trouble of going out to peddle the gifts you left them. Here's a true story: Husband and wife (clients) felt so sorry for the village kids that they sent a 20' container full of second-hand children's clothing, toys and a mix of odds 'n sods, c/o. the village chief - he sold the damn lot and the kids still have no toys and continue running around bare cheeks and bare feet! Just leave it it UNICEF to handle. | |||
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Anton - I'm not joking, I'm dead serious! Look at the other 2 posts from Fujo & Fritz, guys who know better than all of us. I'm not talking about the immediate camp staff on your hunt, the trackers, etc. I always give those folks stuff, money mainly - but I am giving it to them as appreciation for services rendered (hard work) not just because they are under a shade tree - sitting up right and breathing. | |||
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I already have two custom extra light wheelchairs that im bringing next time over... I rather give something back to people in need instead giving my PH a new 600NE lol.. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by A.Dahlgren: I already have two custom extra light wheelchairs that im bringing next time over... QUOTE] That's great!!! | |||
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or stupid ?  Anyway back to the lion, I have question on the lion 505 posted on another thread. That lion looks old in his face etc but looking at his body he sure looks to be in his best/biggest/fit shape in his life and well fed or am I mistaken ? | |||
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No jokes. Even the afore-mentioned wheelchairs will be sold or the wheels will replace screwed bicycle wheels. Quite recently here in the Eastern Cape, all the kids who lived a distance from a school were given new bicycles. Within days, the cycles had new owners. Some stolen by "wise guys," the rest sold. Just leave it it UNICEF to handle. HAH! Even their local staff will have a scam on the go. | |||
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You dont need to be a genius to figure out its happening. But only because 75% of the red cross shipments get through to the right destination doesnt mean they quit. You cant paint it all in the same colour. | |||
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I do paint it with the same brush. Anything that helps to increase the numbers of humans on the ground in Africa is killing the wildlife faster. You want to do good works and get some chits on your side and feel better about yourself, do it elsewhere. There 7 billion people and only one Africa. Go to Greece and feed them if you can't help yourself. | |||
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LMAO I bet you have never been to Greece huh ?! And I bet you never seen a camp of dying children in Africa ! Man you are stupid. | |||
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Many years ago we tried to give the children in one particular village in Zambia some joy. We gave them a TV with a satellite dish so that they can watch it in their off time after school. The TV was erected at the school for all the children. Some months later I went there again to fix some thing that was broken after being informed via someone that was sent by the principle. When I arrived late in the afternoon I found a lot of adult men in and around the building where the TV was but there were NO kids. Entering the room I saw that the TV cable was connected to another TV and between the two was a bar that sold all kinds of alcohol to the people. When I asked them what this was all about, I was informed that after school, all the children HAD to leave so that the adults could come an watch TV and drink. All at a fee that goes to the Principle. He did not use the money to better the school. He bought an old run-down Land Rover so that he can transport more people to his bar. It did not take to long for the kids to get into the alcohol as well. You guys can say what you want. You come as clients and never see the "behind the scenes" stuff that goes on in Africa. We that live and work there see these things every day and have to work with it. By pumping all the "poor people" full of gifts you do not realize how much trouble you create for us because now they are being taught that you do not need to work to earn something. They just need to act poor. That then is why we struggle to help the people to help them self. They all swarm to the tourists and claim poverty. The tourist give and feel better but we stay behind with the problems. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Churchill screwed up more than once and this quote of his adds credibility to his failures. As a think tank he was a failure - but having the gift of the gab would have been a great con-man  There is no guarantee that you will succeed in all your endeavors; some will be successful while in others you will be pissing against the wind - harsh as it may seem, feeling sorry for the woes (mostly self created) in Africa is one of them. Now back to the Lions. | |||
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Anton - Don't get me wrong, I respect your concern and feelings for others - that's a very admirable quality! I believe in a hand-up, not just a hand-out. I contribute to the guys who are working for the outfitters, etc - cause they are actually working, trying to do what they can, trying to better themselves the best they can. But the rest of em, ya not so much! I've seen hundreds and hundreds of villages all across Africa, and NO, I don't see many of them that are actually starving to death!! Maybe they don't live like you and I, but starving to death, no. In fact, if they were, they would not be multiplying at astronomical rates!!!! I do think its important to heed the advice/experience of the guys who live with the African culture everyday (Fritz, Scriptus, Fujo, etc) My opinion is the same, just as it is here in the U.S., for all the damn welfare/free give-away programs we have all across the country. All that does is breed dependency, nothing more! It does not teach responsibility, pride, or hard work, it only teaches that if you learn to do NOTHING - someone will feel sorry for you, and give you something for free. How is that in anyway productive?? Fritz says above, exactly what I said too. The givers are only helping themselves feel better, they are certainly NOT helping the real problem! | |||
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Actually, while the discussion is on the boil, citizens of donor countries, Uncle Sam's lot and especially the Nordic Countries, persuade your governments not to just willy nilly hand over cash without checks being put in place and controlled by the donor. An example is a Swedish city twinned with East London, donated a couple of million ZAR. The oh so bright Mayoress of the Swedish City was informed that the money was used to upgrade the beachfront. She then gushed on a visit to East London that the beachfront was really looking good. In reality, the beachfront has just plainly gone backwards and in the same year of the donations, the East London City Council " lost" a further 2 BZAR. In reality, what ever is poured into Africa, would do the same if it were poured into a "black hole" in space, except that in Africa, a couple more smart arses are now driving BMW 5s. | |||
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Im not talking about giving money to the drunk guy sitting outside the fence on the gameranch in RSA but remote parts in Africa lets say Congo or Ivory Coast, Sudan etc. Aaron I know you have been around the block but so have others I have family in Africa and my only sister have been living in africa for the last 12 years(working with refugees) and im not talking about downtown Namibia or RSA but the Congo etc. Well its up to oneself to decide and belief in whats right but SgOlds post and some of other are just tragic. JMHO | |||
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Anton - I understand your point, and each person has to do what they think is best! | |||
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He likely lives in a game rich area and/or is the leader of a strong hunting pride. With lots to eat...lion can bulk up quickly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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