You are headed to Zimbabwe to Dande North. You are going to hunt buffalo.

I am going to give you your choice of a new, in the box, Winchester Model 70 (South Carolina, FN made) or a Remington 700 in any configuration you like - in a .375 H&H with a 1.75 x 6 scope.


Which do you want and why?

Model 70. I prefer controlled round feed and the three position safety. I have both makes, but Winchester is far and away my favorite, and the vast majority of my rifles are Model 70's, or are built on the Model 70 action.

I have only used a Winchester before (largest thing I used it on was a tuskless) and it did not let me down. Remains my first choice. In fact, that is what I am holding in the photo below.

The Winchester in that caliber and type of gun.
I've used a Win. Stainless in 375 for the past 10 years and just this last year had 375 H&H rifle built by Brown Prescion with a Winchester action.
The SS shot any 300 gr bullet well, but the new one is a real serious tack driver.

Do I have to go to Dande?

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Do I have to go to Dande?

There's always one.

Remington. More of the money stays in the states.

I own both, although neither brand in .375. I have a pre-64 Win. that is surreal in it's accuracy.

I've killed way more game with a run-of-the-mill Remington than any other brand. However, the ability of the bolt to turn on the Remington in the "safe" position was a hard-learned lesson.

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Do I have to go to Dande?

No, for you, and you alone, you can go to the Save.

Of the 2, I will take the Winchester. CRF is the main reason. I can take or leave the 3 position safety. I think the 1917 Enfield safety is one of the best out there.

I would go for the Mod 70. CRF...also like it better in the heavier calibers in general. Feels better for a bigger gun. I have a model 700 Rem in 25-06, 22-250 and .300 RUM, and like them just fine, but doesn't feel like a big bore rifle to me...I really liked the Mod 70 .375 I had...

Remington may take great care in building the rifles they sell the military but my several experiences with their civilian 700s has left a lasting impression.

I'd take the Winchester 70 over the Remington 700 without a moment's hesitation.

I dont want a new rifle going to Africa period.

Mike,
You are allowed to shoot both 500 times and drag it behind your truck to make it "not new".

What: I would take the Winchester.

Why: Anything by Remington skeeves me.

Remington - thousands of rounds through them over the past 40 years including 416 and 458 and never had a failure to feed, never had a failure to extract, never had a failure to do exactly what I needed when I need it to be done whether right-side up or upside down, whether below 0 or above 115 degrees farenheit ambient temperature.
Only Model 70 CRF I have ever owned worked quite well but can't honestly compare my limited experience with it to that with the 700.

Man I know Im hard on my gear but damn!

Winchester. Smooth, strong, simple, reliable easy to work on & easy to upgrade.

That said, I might wonder if I should have bought the Ruger which in my recent experience are more accurate than Winchesters.

Dogcat.

Choice? OK. Ft. Smith is 2 hours away from your door. I will be right over to get one. Rem or Win is OK by me. Reason.....price is right.

Elton

Winchester - The winchester stock designs just fit me better.

I just bought another Winchester Model 70 in 375 H&H Mag today. I really think ones made in SC are a great value. Besides, I did not draw a moose, bighorn sheep or mountain goat tag in today's special drawing in Montana. Heck, I had to do something to relieve my depression! LOL! :-)

I prefer the Model 70 for Africa but there is nothing wrong with the Remington 700 as I own several of them in various calibers. Shoot with the one you shoot well and have confidence in.

Another vote for the M70. Just did a quick headcount and I've got 13 M70s close at hand (8 of them pre 64s) and no M700s for many years. Possibly I'm in a rut, but it's a familar rut... One of those M70s, along with a DR, will be in Bubye Valley, Zim next week...

Why ya gotta stir the pot DC

My 700 shoots and has served me well on many safaris.

Yes, I am aware of the theoretical benefits of the 70.

Peace.

I have both, the 70 in .375, and it has been an outstanding African performer.

I have a 700 LSS in .300 RUM, and I like it, too. It has been to Africa once, the .375 twice. I prefer the Winchester. Both are quite accurate, but I had a Timney trigger installed in the 700 and the barrel free floated. I had a $40 trigger job and a Wolff follower spring done on the 70.

Wendell, was that a model 700 that 30ott6 used to hunt pigs at your ranch?

The Winnie model 70... because if I don't have a smith customize it before or after the trip I can get more on the resale or trade than the 700!

Winchester model 70 all the way. CRF, closer to the original Mauser design, nice trigger, 3 pos safety.

Own both and I'll take the 70...hands down.

Can I pick the Winny action and the Remmy barrel and stock?

I prefer the 70, but in a 375 it is a porky thing.

My brain keeps getting stuck at "WOOOHOO I am going to Zimbabwe to hunt buffalo!!!".

Either rifle would do the trick for me, but if they were both laying in front of me and I could only grab one, it would probably be the Winchester (or whichever one was shinier lol).

I would take the Winchester, drive to SLC, Rob Heritage Arms, get me an R 93 in 375 or 416, and head for the airport.

quote:

I am going to give you your choice of a new, in the box, Winchester Model 70 (South Carolina, FN made) or a Remington 700 in any configuration you like - in a .375 H&H with a 1.75 x 6 scope.

None of them both rubish.
I would take Sauer 202 Take Down in .416 or bigger with one of the Swarovski Z6 Scopes

mboga biga,
I thought of adding the Sauer but I have yet to hear much about it. My next rifle for Africa will hopefully be a takedown "something". Tell of your experience please.

Hmmm...

Dande North. You will see herd buffalo and also lots of dagga boy tracks to follow. Probably will have to retreat from cow eles most days.

Winchester 70, no question.

Remington = accurate rifle
Remington extractor = junk

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
Wendell, was that a model 700 that 30ott6 used to hunt pigs at your ranch?

My point exactly, word on the street is that he broke the stock and it STILL WORKS!

Try that Winnie!

As an interesting side bar, I have had two chamber failures while on safari, both were with CRF rifles. No they were not short strokes. It was a round in the chamber without the bolt grabbing the rim.

I trust CRF guns and think the design is great, I just see very little reason to split hairs. They both work, they can both fail. 10,000 rounds from each may not provide a statistically significant leader.

Use what you are comfortable with.

So, Dogcat, I will let you choose and be perfectly happy with it! Thanks for the offer, lets go.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
Own both and I'll take the 70...hands down.

I don't own both right now, but I do own a couple of Rem 700s, and a bunch of Mauser actioned rifles. The 700s I own belonged to my father who has long since passed on to the hunting in the sky,so they are keepsakes, and will go no place. However, even my dad never used them to hunt with, he just liked the way they looked. When the jeep was packed, and "A HUNTING WE WOULD GO" he always grabbed his old FN Mauser 30-06 with a Weaver 4X scope on it, and killed everything he saw with single shots!

This is a personal thing with me, but IMO, any rifle to be used for hunting dangerous game should be as simple and idiot proof as it is possible to make it. Anything that has even the potential to fail, again IMO, should be shuned like the plague. Push feed bolt rifles, regardless of who makes them will not be in my hands when the bush holds bite-backs!

So with your choices, I'd would choose the Win Mod 70 hands down.

However I have two rifles that I consider to be better than either of those choices! They are Whitworth African express rifles built on a Zastava FN clone actions, with the after market Winchester type 3 position safeties. The origenal safety on the Whitworths is no better than the Remington's. Both block only the trigger (sometimes)and IMO are not worth crap. The Winchester type not only blocks the trigger, but the fireing pin as well, and the CRF feature alone is worth more, on it's own, than the total cost of any push feed rifle!

The choice is your's and my post is only to answer your question of which "I'd" pick and why! If the bullet goes where it will do the most good, then either will do the job, but there is a difference between the systems, and IMO a very important one, where dangerous game is concerned!

Which brand do you shoot more? Use that one. When you get in a tough spot, you don't want to try and remember how the gun works or how to take the safety off. Make sure you can shoot the gun. Ask any PH and they will tell you, they want a hunter who can hit what they aim at.

Just my 2 cents.

Which ever one is most accurate and fits me best.
Given the chance to restock and have the rifles worked on, would probably go for CRF but would not feel threatened with the Remmie.

My model 70 .375 H&H did just great for me in Dande North last month. It is the first and only .375 I have ever owned and I can't imagine buying anything else. A well known maker of top African rifles here in the Uk (Trevor Proctor) recommended it to me so what better advise could you have.

M 70

I would take the model 70. I just like the way they fit me.

Either my custom Brno 602 .375 or my 1920's .318 WR. Sorry!