If A Lion or Elephant Charges

12 April 2018, 23:42

BuffHunter63

If A Lion or Elephant Charges - Who Pays?

I have never had this occur, but I always ask the PH at the start of a safari, the question "if a dangerous animal charges and has to be killed in self defense, am I liable for the trophy fee?"

I have always been told "no", but this might not be true depending upon where you are hunting on communal land, government land, or a private game reserve.

I know from reading many hunting accounts, that it has been common for a client to take on license, the rare lion or elephant that was killed in self defense.

With today's ever changing economics, it might behoove hunters to get this specified in writing if hunting in an area where you might bump into a belligerent elephant or lion that you have no desire to kill, but either you or the PH wind up shooting.

I would think this is especially important if hunting on a private game farm where a lion might be worth 60 thousand dollars or more.

Any thoughts?

BH63

13 April 2018, 01:48

7kongoni

If you have a government game scout, you begin by giving him his "birthday present".

13 April 2018, 02:28

crbutler

I suppose it makes a great deal of difference in the situation.

I have always had a government game scout with us, and his job is to observe what goes on.

If you are in the situation of a unprovoked short range charge by a high value game animal, there will be an investigation and that the game department will decide if you shot appropriately.

If the charge was unwitnessed, and you the client were the only one shooting, odds are you will want to call it a trophy animal and pay for it, assuming there is quota.

If you did not fire a shot, whoever did is responsible, and will have to face the government inquiry.

Even if it is ruled a justified shooting, if you want the trophy you will have to have quota and pay a trophy fee if you want to export it.

That’s what I’ve been told and seen happen (not to me) in Tanzania and Zimbabwe.

I have also seen and been asked to put down wounded/sick animals. I have had to shoot a female elephant and a zebra mare that way. I didn’t pay for either, but the game scout made the decision before we shot anything in those cases.

The elephant required all 3 (me, ph, scout) to sign an affidavit to the game department but that was a formality, and they took the meat and ivory.

Frankly, an unnecessary self defense shooting is a illegal act. The money is the least way out. A legal self defense shot should not result in fees.

13 April 2018, 02:39

Opus1

Always good to ask, but best to let your PH shoot first and then let loose.

As crbutler stated, most countries are pretty lenient if dangerous game is killed when endangering life and even livestock. However, I have heard some pretty interesting stories on killing charging animals on private farms. Farmers can get pretty pissy when they lose expensive game.

13 April 2018, 03:21

tomahawker

Jeffrey, worst case scenario I whip out my Barlow

13 April 2018, 04:00

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by tomahawker:
Jeffrey, worst case scenario I whip out my Barlow

Ah, the classic "whittle a whistle to play my own dirge" gambit...

13 April 2018, 13:03

fairgame

That would be a Government loss. No one pays and the incident is recorded by the monitoring scout. I had to shoot an elephant a couple of seasons back and this warranted a simple investigation and statements from the hunting party. Worse case scenario you loose a days hunting.

14 April 2018, 09:14

Saeed

Not if you have the magic hand!

14 April 2018, 11:14

Michael Robinson

Who pays?

Who cares?

That is, if self-preservation is an instinct you possess.

You must always have what is called in the construction industry, an owner's contingency, to cover such events.

First, survive.

15 April 2018, 05:05

Fjold

quote:
Originally posted by BuffHunter63:

I would think this is especially important if hunting on a private game farm where a lion might be worth 60 thousand dollars or more.

BH63

A lion on a private game farm may cost $60,000 but it's not worth $60,000.

16 April 2018, 17:21

scruffy

Hopefully the lion or the elephant pays.

16 April 2018, 18:39

Capt. Purvis

I have always been told that if you will not have to pay anything if you are protecting a human life.

17 April 2018, 20:49

BuffHunter63

Like shooting someone in self-defense, I just hope I never have to find out.

Thanks for the responses.

BH63

18 April 2018, 00:13

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Like shooting someone in self-defense, I just hope I never have to find out.

Thanks for the responses.

BH63

When it does you have split seconds to make a decision so be prepared.

19 April 2018, 01:04

Aaron Neilson

I had the exact scenario happen with a buffalo in Tanzania (kilombero Valley) in 2008. Two lone dagga boys we were hunting, they bust out of the long grass in front of us, I shot the back bull. Two shots and he was down....his buddy ran off about 70 yards and stopped. Although I had one more buff on license we were not wanting to shoot another one at that time - in case we needed one a bit later for more lion bait.

Well, that ole boy stood there looking at us and his buddy for about 2 minutes or so I would say (you can see this all on one of my Global Hunter DVD's) all while my cameraman / PH kept warning me to keep an eye on him. I of course was busy with the filming aspect, and sarcastically replied to them both, "ya, let him come". There's no way he's gonna charge us, completely un-wounded from 70 yards. Boy was I ever wrong!!!

All the sudden my cameraman is yelling, "he's coming, he's coming", and sure enough he was coming straight for us. The PH was yelling, "shoot him Aaron, shoot him, shoot him". So I did, right in the grill with my .375 RUM. He nose dived into the dirt, go up and turned hard to his right! A couple more shots and he was down. That was the only time I ever saw an un-wounded buffalo charge.

The game scout was there - agreed the situation warranted us shooting the bull, and the bull was not allocated to my quota, nor was I charged for him either.

19 April 2018, 07:40

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I had the exact scenario happen with a buffalo in Tanzania (kilombero Valley) in 2008. Two lone dagga boys we were hunting, they bust out of the long grass in front of us, I shot the back bull. Two shots and he was down....his buddy ran off about 70 yards and stopped. Although I had one more buff on license we were not wanting to shoot another one at that time - in case we needed one a bit later for more lion bait.

Well, that ole boy stood there looking at us and his buddy for about 2 minutes or so I would say (you can see this all on one of my Global Hunter DVD's) all while my cameraman / PH kept warning me to keep an eye on him. I of course was busy with the filming aspect, and sarcastically replied to them both, "ya, let him come". There's no way he's gonna charge us, completely un-wounded from 70 yards. Boy was I ever wrong!!!

All the sudden my cameraman is yelling, "he's coming, he's coming", and sure enough he was coming straight for us. The PH was yelling, "shoot him Aaron, shoot him, shoot him". So I did, right in the grill with my .375 RUM. He nose dived into the dirt, go up and turned hard to his right! A couple more shots and he was down. That was the only time I ever saw an un-wounded buffalo charge.

The game scout was there - agreed the situation warranted us shooting the bull, and the bull was not allocated to my quota, nor was I charged for him either.

Lucky this did not happen in New York!

A lawyer would have sprung up to represent that bull, and your life would never be the same again!

It was HIS RIGHT to charge you for killing his friend