I'd just like to second what Terry said. I have hunted Zim every year for the past nine years. Usually I hunt the Zambezi Valley for dangerous game, but have hunted many other areas as well. Never once had even the slightest hint of any trouble. I just returned from there September 10th and can report there was no trouble whatever as we traveled literally all over the country. I heartily recommend you give it a try. You will never regret it.

Geronimo

Marty,

Any hunting in Africa comes with risks, but I have never heard of any foreign hunters who were killed while on safari in Zimbabwe. I'm not calling your friend a liar, but I honestly don't believe any foreign hunters have been killed in ZIM.

I hunted the Binga Communal Lands in the Zambezi Valley in June of last year and had a great time. Look back over the our hunting reports over the last two years, I can think of only one safari that had any problems and I think they were hunting on a ranch, not on government or communal lands.

Regards,

Terry

Terry-
Thanks for the info. You kind of confirm what I had suspected about buffalo in RSA.
As to Zimbabwe, a woman I know hunted there 3 or 4 years ago. They had to leave early, as her husband's mother died. She later found out that the hunters at a camp only a few miles from theirs had all been murdered.
What I am hearing lately is more encouraging-both from you and my South African contacts. Basically, that life is okay in the hinterlands. Thanks again.
Marty

Greetings to the forum. I'm going back to RSA for the second time next May. We had a lot of fun hunting plains game on ranches last year. My highlight was a 50 inch eastern cape kudu.
The opportunity for buff exists on another property. They are quite expensive in RSA right know. I may consider it- who knows when I can get back to Africa? I have two questions for the forum:
First, is a buff in RSA worthwhile, or will it be basically a canned hunt? A bull is $9500, and a cow two or three thousand. Not worth it to me to just walk out and shoot one.
Second, I would like to take a trip for buffalo, and also would like to take a hippo. Where would you go? I would like to see wild Africa, as I will have done two RSA ranch hunts already. I'd like to have a good safari experience, and understandably it will not be cheap, but I'd rather not spend the moon, either. Having heard horror stories about Zimbabwe, I'm a bit reluctant.
Thanks, guys!

Marty,



Welcome to AR. I hunted twice in RSA. The first time for plains game and the second for plains game and buffalo.



Knowing what I know now, I would never have hunted buffalo in RSA. Too expensive and not real Africa. RSA is great for what it is - ranch collection hunts. It is not real Africa in my opinion.



Your best bet and still the most cost effective is Zimbabwe. What "horror stories" have you heard about ZIM? There have been very few problems with safaris in ZIM. Anyway, where you will be hunting buffalo and hippo will be on government or communal lands that have had no problems with war vets.



Go hunt the Zambezi Valley and get a real taste of Africa. Book with a reliable outfitter and you will have the time of your life. There is something special about the Zambezi Valley that you won't find in RSA.



Check out outfitter's like HHK, National Safaris, Bulembi (Butch Walker), Big 5, Swainson's, Russ Broom and Buzz Charlton.



Regards,



Terry

Marty - As Terry said, the Zambezi Valley in Zimbabwe would be an ideal destination. I hunted the Chewore North concession for tuskless elephant with Buzz Charlton in April. There are a lot of buff and hippo in/around the Zambezi, which is truly one of the "classic" destinations in Africa. Here's a web album of the hunt (might take a while if you are on dial-up). Zambezi Valley Album.



Buzz's webpage is at: Buzz Charlton Web Page.



I'd also suggest considering the Luangwa Valley in Zambia (not too far from the Zambezi), where on a 7-day license you can hunt buffalo, hippo, croc and plainsgame (if there is quota). I hunted the Lower Lupande with Peter Chipman (check the forum history for some pict's I posted). The Luangwa is not as fast-moving as the Zambezi, so there's less of a chance that your croc or hippo will be lost. Trophy fees for hippo, croc and buffalo are "only" $1300/each, which is not bad. Peter's email is kwalatapeter@yahoo.com.



I'm sure others will have other good suggestions, and I've read of some good buff/hippo/croc hunts to Mozambique also.

mho--

Your charter lands on a small dirt runway in very close proximity to the main lodge. You can stay in the main lodge if you like. It is one of the most plush camps I have ever seen. However, personally I much rather stay in a tented camp. There are two fly camps at Big Five. One is inland from the river and is vehicle accessable. The one I stayed on was on the river. You are transported to camp via the river. There are NO vehicles. All hunting is on foot.You should be in reasonaly good physical shape because of the walking you will do. Lots of hills You can change areas, but is by boat. I hunted buffalo only from this camp. I believe if you want a mixed bag you would better off at the inland camp. Food, drink and laundry service was very good. It is amasing what these bush cooks can come up with. Water is heated for your showers and they have flush toilets in each tent. You can contact Ian Gibson who is the head PH at Big Five. I don't have their e-maill but I'm sure a search for Big Five will provide it for you. In all a tough hunt, but very rewarding. Took five days of walking before we found a nice bull.
Hope this helps!!

Marty:

Having just returned from Zimbabwe on September 15th I would say you will have a great hunt if you pick the proper operator. I would recomend Tony Dacosta Safari's from Minden Nevada. http://www.tonydacosta.com/notices.htm We hunted Cape Buffalo in the Omay district which by the way is operated by HHK Safari's. It was a first class camp and our buffalo hunt was successfull. Here is a photo of mine and the one taken by my hunting partner. Good luck and good hunting.

Regards,

Rick L. Webb

Thanks peashooter, that sounds like an awesome hunt! As practical as safari vehicles are, they kind of get between you and the ultimate adventure - on foot in the African bush. Hmmm, this could be bad news for my bank account...
- mike

Hi Peashooter. I am hunting this camp end of July. Did you see a lot of other game close to the camp. Am interested in a cow ele + other mix bag, incl. Hippo, and hopefully croc.

thanks for your input in advance

reddy375

quote:

Originally posted by peashooter:
mho--<br /><br />Your charter lands on a small dirt runway in very close proximity to the main lodge. You can stay in the main lodge if you like. It is one of the most plush camps I have ever seen. However, personally I much rather stay in a tented camp. There are two fly camps at Big Five. One is inland from the river and is vehicle accessable. The one I stayed on was on the river. You are transported to camp via the river. There are NO vehicles. All hunting is on foot.You should be in reasonaly good physical shape because of the walking you will do. Lots of hills You can change areas, but is by boat. I hunted buffalo only from this camp. I believe if you want a mixed bag you would better off at the inland camp. Food, drink and laundry service was very good. It is amasing what these bush cooks can come up with. Water is heated for your showers and they have flush toilets in each tent. You can contact Ian Gibson who is the head PH at Big Five. I don't have their e-maill but I'm sure a search for Big Five will provide it for you. In all a tough hunt, but very rewarding. Took five days of walking before we found a nice bull.<br />Hope this helps!!

http://wickedhost.net/bigfive/

Do not hunt (actually I should say "shoot" because it is not hunting) cape buffalo in RSA for a $9,500 trophy fee

I can't believe that they can find any sucker who would pay that for a "released" buffalo. Not when you can go to the real old time Africa (Big 5 Safaris, Chewore North, Zim) and have a 7 day buff/plainsgame hunt including the daily rate, buffalo trophy fee, air charter and flight from Joberg to Harare all for less than the trophy fee of a RSA canned buffalo. It just seems crazy to me that anyone would even contemplate that.

I have hunted with Ian Gibson at Big 5 twice now (October 2001 & August 2004) and will be going back in 2006. It truly is wild africa. You will be stalking buffalo each day, stepping over lion tracks, dodging elephant multiple times per day, pulling down eaten leopard and hyena bait. Not to mention the croc & hippo hunting.

As a beginning African hunter, I took a 56.5" kudu on my first trip and a 55" on my 2nd. Have shot trophy eland, waterbuck, bushbuck, impala, grysbuck, klipspringer, zebra, warthog, baboon, guinea fowl, francolin, sand grouse, egyption geese, knobnose duck, spurwing goose, fished for Tigerfish and missed two shots at two different jackels. I think I forgot a few animals, but both of these were only 7 day hunts and I probably bird hunted or fished for a solid day or day & 1/2 of my 7 days each time.

I just don't think that there is any better place to hunt in Africa, but I do want to try Tanzania, Botswana & Zambia some time. I have been to the South Luanga Valley of Zambia when it was closed for hunting, but the wild life is pretty amazing.

Anyway, I would suggest putting RSA behind you and stepping up to something a little more wild, and all at a lower cost than hunting buffalo in RSA.

Oh, by the way, buy "Boddington on Buffalo" if you are thinking about a buffalo hunt. It was filmed in Chewore North (just west of the Big 5 camp) in August 2004. He hunted with Andrew Dawson, a great PH. Ian Gibson is also interview in the video and talks about the buffalo that gored him a few years back.
http://www.chifutisafaris.com/

Call the US booking agent for Big 5 and Chifuti

Tim Danklef
3741 Purdue
Dallas, Texas 75225
(214)-360-9599 Office
(214)-361-8789 Fax
tdanklef@aol.com

Better yet, just mail Tim a $1,000 deposit check and then call him. You won't regret it.

Tim

Hey Shumba - Agree with all you said, except the Boddington on Buffalo was filmed in the Sapi Safari area, west of Chewore. I was hunting with Paul Smith (Andrew's partner) for tuskless and leopard, while Danklef and Dave Fulson filmed Andrew guiding Boddington for the video. I have hunted with Andrew/Paul for the past two years and it just doesn't get any better. In '06 I have a hunt booked with Andy Hunter/Ian Gibson at Big Five. Cheers, Mike

Oops, I could well be wrong on the location of where the video was filmed. I thought they filmed it in the area that borders Big 5, on the other side of the Chewore River. I think I saw them walking in the video along the Chewore River. On my first safari in 2001, Andrew Dawson was our pilot and flew us from Victoria Falls to the Big 5 camp in his Cesna. Towards the end of the flight, he was pointing out the areas he hunts (back in 2001) and I thought it was pretty close to Big 5 area's.


N'gagi and I are scheduled to go back to Big 5 in late July 2006. When will you be there?

I met Andy Hunter in camp last August 2004 and we had him coordinate getting our trophies dipped & shipped, he did a great job. Also a good PH from what I have heard.

Can't wait to get back.

Oh yeah, when you see Ian, give him a swift kick for me!

Tim

I have the video, only watched it once so far, and seems I remember them walking in the Chewore (thru a canyon), which as I recall is the commom boundary between Big Five and Chifuti's areas. Andrew and Paul are both first class gentlemen and I will hunt with them again at some point. In '03 I hunted hippo one day with Andy Hunter, when Andrew hired him for the day, as Andrew had hurt his leg (playfully kicking a cook) and was down for two days. What a coincidence !! I am booked for late July '06 as well, but don't have the exact dates in front of me. Look forward to meeting up with you. Will be hunting lioness/croc with Andy. Enjoyed the day with him in '03 a great deal and just decided to hunt with him and see some different country. I had previously met Ian also in '03, when Danklef and Dawson stopped at his home for a brief visit. I saw him and Andy at the SCI show in January. As you know, Ian is quite the "cutup" and I look forward to being in his camp

reddy 375
If you are looking for plains game as well as others mentioned I would suggest you stay at the inland camp where you can have the use of vehicles to scout for the animals your looking for. Hippo and Croc hunting on the Zambezi is a real challenge. They are both very wide awake and if you are in a boat and you cut the motor near them, most times they will head for the water in a hurry. Another challenge is the Zambezi river has a very strong current. If your shot placement is not right on both will make it to the water and will probably never be seen again. When your on the river if you shot you pay.

quote:

Originally posted by peashooter:
reddy 375
Another challenge is the Zambezi river has a very strong current. If your shot placement is not right on both will make it to the water and will probably never be seen again. When your on the river if you shot you pay.

HA HA HA!!!!!!!!

This is a very sore subject for Mark "I shot at a hippo but couldn't find it" Jackson (aka N'gagi). I will let him tell the story.

Hey peashooter, I stopped by the new inland "fly" camp after I shot my buffalo way back in the middle of nowhere. The camp had just finished being built (August 2004). It was back in this area that we saw most of the lion tracks. Very nice but very remote camp. Elephant were everywhere. I still prefer the main camp with those cool river breezes.

Tim

I guess I'm going to step in and disagree with most of the posts on this thread that say that ALL buffalo hunting in the RSA is "canned". That is the popular misconception around this forum and it is not the case. Some of the criticisms made against DG hunting in the RSA are valid and were brought upon that industry by some of the PH's and hunting outfits themselves for their unscrupulous acts. It is unfortunate that it has happened but blanket statements about the RSA hunting industry and canned hunting are bullshit and undeserved. There are many really fine outfits in South Africa.

I have hunted buffalo in South Africa, Zimbabwe and Tanzania. I shot buff in all three places and none of them had a rope tied around their neck or were out in a field sniffing flowers like Ferdinand! You don't just step out of the bakkie and shoot a buff in the RSA. You track 'em and get close just like you do anywhere else! I hunted a large property next to Krueger Park and the buff could move in and out of the property at their leisure. Not unlike moving in and out of Tarangire Park when I hunted in Tanzania. The buff were as wild as buff get. They didn't hang around and watch you set up to shoot them that was for sure! And I sure as hell didn't have pangs of guilt when I busted my bull! And I wasn't wearing houseshoes either. Some South African PH's I would recommend without qualm are Dries Vissier and Brad Rolston. Call either of these guys a fake and they are liable to bloody your nose!

I laugh when people talk about the expense of hunting buff in the RSA. Hell, if they can get their asking price (and they can) they should charge it. Why does our capitalist system work well in the good ol US but not on the Dark Continent? Anybody price a Masailand buff hunt lately?

Marty, if you want a recommendation or e-mail address for an honest buff hunt in the RSA, send me a pm. The hippo shouldn't be a problem either!

bwanamrm,

I'm sure there are a few true "hunts" on the border of Kruger, but for the most part, when someone is charging a $9,500 trophy fee for a buffalo it is because they bought it at auction. I just can't see spending that when you can hunt 1M square acres of truly wild, no fences, no people Africa as follows:

Daily Rate (7days x$750): $5,250
Air Charter: $1,200 (or $660 per person if 2x)
Joberg/Harare RT flight: $350
Buffalo Trophy Fee: $2,500

Grand Total: $9,300

Now, take the left over $200 dollars and the daily rate you would have paid in RSA and apply them to the plainsgame/hippo/croc trophy fees and you have a much better experience for a lot less $$$$. By the way, the above prices include a recent 2005 increase and were quite a bit less last year.

Yes, people are allowed to charge what they can get, but for the most part, members of this board try to help each other with advice to avoid problems and save money. Not too much different than if I saw you post a question saying "I saw a really nice Bushnell scope for sale for $2,000 should I buy it" (which I believe is the equivalent of paying $9,500 for an RSA buff), most members would tell you to buy a Zeiss/Swaro/S&B,etc. or spend less and get a Leupold. Gathering information before spending money is also a great part of capitalism (unfortunately not practiced by our Governent).

If I were looking to hunt Tanzania, you bet I would post here about what I was looking for. I'm confident that between Ray Atkinson and quite a few others I would find a reputable outfit at a fair price and I would be well warned of the pitfalls and what to look out for.

Anyway, my guess is that you hunted buff in RSA first and then decided to hunt them in Zim and Tanz. No matter, you can shoot all the $9,500 RSA buff you want. I'm sure you won't have much competition from the people who frequent these boards.

Tim

Shumba,
Your guess would be wrong. I began hunting in Zimbabwe in 1994 on the Lemco, Namibia in 1999, the RSA in 2000 in the East Cape, 2001 in Kwa-Zulu Natal, 2002 in the Hoedspruit/Krueger area,and 2003 along the Limpopo River, later in 2003 Masailand, Tanzania and in 2004 the Zambezi Valley of Zimbabwe. I am headed back to Zim this June to hunt the Save Valley Conservancy and am contracted for 2006 for the Sapi for Leopard with Chifuti Safaris. I have hunted with seven different PH's and traveled to other African countries where I did not hunt as well.

I don't think you have to worry about me buying a $2000 Bushnell! Now, I've shown you my base of African hunting experience and can call on PH's to back it up...you show me yours. How many times have you hunted in Africa and where?

I never disputed that it can be cheaper to hunt buff elsewhere...but the RSA is not necessarily the most expensive place to hunt buff in total amount of dollars spent. It may not be the wildest darkest part of the continent, but I've crossed hyena, leopard and wild lion tracks there as well.

I still call bullshit to guys posting on this forum that have never hunted an area or country to then totally diss it because of what they heard or read and pass it off as gospel. Terry Carr has been there, done that and expressed his views. And I respect that. Have you? Are you really helping people here on these forums when you misrepresent a place you've never been? And are you doing justice to honorable outfitters and PHs in the RSA because of blanket statements about canned hunting or bought game?

By the way, I will hunt when and where I want and sure as hell don't need some "expert" who has been there once or twice to give me advice!

Shumba,

I represent Garry Kelly who offers buffalo, leopard and lion in the timbavati that borders Kruger. People buy those hunts because they are wondeful experiences and the trophies are often exceptional. As for it being wild it probably doesn't rate with the Selous but I know 2 clients that wanted out of there and left early because it was too wild at night with the hyenas and lions prowling about. I'm putting my own money down there next year and expect a great hunt in every way.

BTW The buffalo hunt there is $16000.00 which includes everything from pick up at JIA to drop off at JIA. No charter and no observer fee. Your expectations should be a massive bull of 40" plus.

Regards,

Mark

bwanamrm,

Wow, I think your lace panties may be a size or two too small.

I'm glad to see that you agreed with me and booked a hunt with Andrew Dawson.

In the posts above, Marty asked about the $9,500 buffalo hunt and also asked where else he might look for buff, hippo & croc. The point of my post was to suggest he might be able to do better for the price. So, like I said, you may want to change your panites.

And yes, I'm VERY impressed with your experience since I have never been to Africa and don't even own a big bore.

Tim

Shumba,
Nice insults...match the ones from your previous posts. Actually, not bragging,I just answered your inquiry...

quote:

Anyway, my guess is that you hunted buff in RSA first and then decided to hunt them in Zim and Tanz. No matter, you can shoot all the $9,500 RSA buff you want. I'm sure you won't have much competition from the people who frequent these boards.

I did notice you did not answer any of my questions though.

quote:

Wow, I think your lace panties may be a size or two too small

Additional insults probably prove you can't.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
As for it [RSA] being wild it probably doesn't rate with the Selous but I know 2 clients that wanted out of there and left early because it was too wild at night with the hyenas and lions prowling about.

I fail to understand the psyche of folks who go hunting but want it to be a tame, sterile, or even an urban experience.

That aside, I will agree with the concept that in general South Africa is more oriented to the beginner or the less able hunter, even if that is not the case for every hunting operation there.

[/QUOTE]
That aside, I will agree with the concept that in general South Africa is more oriented to the beginner or the less able hunter, even if that is not the case for every hunting operation there.[/QUOTE]

I think 500grains did a better job of capturing what I was trying to convey.


bwanamrm,

As most of my friends know, I am a bit of a smart ass, so I'm sorry if you took serious offense to the "panties" insult, I thought I was being tame.

With respect to the thread, it seemed to me that MARTY was asking for advice on hunting buffalo, hippo, croc & plainsgame. As such, I'm sticking to my advice of Chifuti and Big 5. I have no experience hunting RSA, so I am just going to agree with 500grains summary. Didn't mean to step on the toes of your RSA friends/PH's, but my OPINION is that MARTY's money would be better spent in a place like Chewore, Sapi, etc. etc.

Now, I did not really have a serious interest in hunting in Africa, but I happened to go to my first SCI convention in January 2001, just because I was already in Vegas and wanted to check it out. I met a guy who had hunted with Big 5 Safaris and highly recommended them, so I check out there both.

I left the convention thinking that maybe I should consider hunting Africa in the next few years. Low and behold, my wife gets a call 2 weeks later from her college roommate asking if we can come to her wedding in Zambia in late October 2001. I told my wife yes, but that we were going hunting before the wedding. I quickly called Tim Danklef and book the last buffalo hunt Big 5 had available for the 2001 season.

We flew from Joberg to Vic Falls and did some whitewater rafting, sightseeing, etc. A day and a half later, we met Andrew Dawson at the Vic Falls airport and he flew us from Vic Falls to the Big 5 camp (2.75 hrs of bumpy air). I then hunted buffalo & plainsgame with Ian Gibson of Big 5. Andrew Dawson and Ian Gibson are very competitive friends. When Andrew came to pick us up, the first thing he did was go to the skinning shed to see what Ian had helped me get. Luckily there was a 41" buffalo, a 56.5" kudu and a few other respectable trophies to make Ian proud. I also sat in a leopard blind for a few mornings at the end of my hunt, but the leopard kept eating the bait and leaving before 1st light.

From Zim, we left and did a photo safari (and attended a wedding) in the South Luanga Park. Hunting was banned, but it was a pretty amazing place. www.robinpopesafaris.net

I had planned to go back every other year, but ended up having our 1st kid in late 2002 and my friend Mark "N'gagi" Jackson decided it would be better to go in 2004 instead of 2003. So, I went back and hunted buffalo & plainsgame in August 2004.

Now, N'gagi and I are booked again for July 2006, so I think I am back on my every other year program. I will be hunting Chewore North again, but I do plan on my 4th safari to look into Zambia, Tanzania, etc.

Again, I started a bit late at the age of 33. I'm now 37 with two safaris under my belt. I also had another child about 3 months ago, so the negotiations with my wife have become a bit more difficult. Luckily she is British, so the plan is for me to fly with her and the kids to the UK. I then stay for a couple of days and then head to Africa while she visits the family.

So right now, you have me beat, but I'm working on it.

Oh yeah, you shouldn't get so worked up over an internet chat forum, lighten up a bit.

Tim

double post. oops!

How to hunt buffalo?

There's a thread about cannibalism that we can tie to this "civilised africa vs wild africa".

On the one hand we hear complaining about the barbaric, uncivilized behaviour of people of these african countries.

On the other hand we have South Africa that is undoubtetly closer to the 1st world than any other country in africa right now.

It's the wild people that keep those countries wild, they have their versions of sosialism or communism where property rights are non existent, there's no progress economically etc. etc.So you get huge wild open spaces.

Soth Africans own property and that is protected under the law(right now) so you see fences.

What would you have, a third world country with people starving from hunger, crazy leaders like Bob, no human rights, but great , wild, true african hunting, or a stable country with rule of law and some fence hunting?