I have a question for you guys who have been to Africa multiple times: I am going on my first African hunting trip in 2015, and am wondering if bringing my rifles is worth the hassle. The PH has rifles available to rent out to clients, and I wonder if it makes makes more sense than going through the hassle of bringing my own. I am flying out of the Northeastern US, and airlines in this part of the country are considerably less accomodating than other parts of the country. Your thoughts?

I am a certified gun nutt. I want to use my rifles whenever I hunt.
But I definitely understand not wanting to go through the hassle.
So far, to me it's been worth it.

I suggest strongly that you take your own rifle(s). Yes there are hassles & expenses; however you are already paying $$ and if you wound and lose an animal not only will you feel terrible, you'll still pay the trophy fee. I used camp guns on my first 2 trips, problems both times. The .30/06 I used for plainsgame was OK, but the box of ammo had mixed rounds in it- soft points, spitzers, etc what a mess. I wounded but recovered 2 animals then used my " master guide's" (not yet a PH) .375 for all 1-shot kills. On my second hunt the scope was mounted too far forward for my eye. I since have taken my own gun with increased comfort & confidence.

I have done it both ways and prefer my own weapons. Using the rental guns was not a problem but the weapons were not something I would personally buy and they really didn't fit me (LOP). I would inquire as to what rifles the PH/outfitter will provide along with providing rifles specs. Outside of caliber and rifle fit, I would hone in on optics as they can make or break a hunt depending on the type of game you are after. You know your likes and dislikes better than anyone and YOU are paying for the hunt. Just know up front what you are getting into.

I've done both, GD, including using a right-handed bolt rifle (as a leftie) on my very first trip (Zambia). Now, I always take my own rifle and shotgun. You did not say where you are going and some countries (Namibia e.g.) are less of a hassle than others to get a temporary firearms import permit.

I'd say that if you can shoot iron sights well, go ahead and start by using the PH's equipment. Shooting iron sights well means you're a very serious rifleman and if his equipment is scoped you're ahead of the game. If you have only used a scope, take your own rifle.

If you can, check and see if you can bring ammo even if you don't take a rifle to temporarily register (usually you can't import ammo into a country without a firearm, too. Your PH should know).

Regards, Tim

Personally, I cannot imagine NOT taking my own rifles as I have them to use and "love" . Gracedog, you did not mention what country you will be hunting in, but even if it is not South Africa, you will probably process through J'burg. I have gone through the SAP (South African Police) procedures three times. Twice we did it on our own which was a huge mistake (yes, we are slow learners) and the average wait time was three hours. On our last trip, we used Afton's services and were through in TEN minutes. So use a service like Afton.

Learn the procedures of checking in your rifle at your home airport and carry a copy of your airline's policy in regards to checking in guns. If you do, the process should be very simple and straight forward. I am fortunate to live in SD where checking a rifle or shotgun through an airport is a very common occurrence, but if you are prepared, it should be simple in any airport.

Finally, you are investing a huge amount of money for this hunt. Do you really want to risk using and unfamiliar firearm? Personally, I would not as I would never shoot an unknown rifle as well as my own....and wounded animals are expensive.... Good luck with your decision.

Take your own, it's not that much of a hassle. Delta lost my guns on the last trip and I had to use my friend/ph's rifles. They were nice ammo was good but I missed a long shot on a baboon that I could have connected with my 9.3x57. When you get home, the rifles you took will be a special reminder of your hunt.

I'd suggest bringing your own rifles. It's really not that much hassle to bring them with you and the airlines' policies are the same regardless of where you originate your travel. Just make sure you do the appropriate paperwork and follow whatever the rules are with where you are going.

Most of the countries in Southern Africa are used to hunting firearms coming through so it's really just a matter of doing the paperwork. As a previous poster mentioned, it's well worth the cost to have someone assist with clearing firearms if you're going through Johannesburg.

Have a great trip.

I have done it both ways also.

Question to ask your PH:
1. what distance will you be shooting?
2. What rifles will you be renting
3. Cost of gun rental
4. Cost per round of ammo.

Rifle rental can run up to $80 per day with ammo at $10 a round.

On my first Cape Buffalo, i booked a short gap safari and did not have time to purchase a big bore rifle so i rented a rifle from the PH with open sights and my rental cost were $800 however i was able to take the ammo for the rifle with me, otherwise it would have been $10 a round.
I hunted and able to take 2 cape buffalo and with some practice with the rented unfamiliar rifle, i went through 20 rounds. (i did not want to muff the shot of a life time, and a tree was target practice)

I did take a rifle and ammo along for plains game.

I have also have rented a PH's rifle for bush-pig hunting at night out of a blind that was outfitted with a lighted scope dead on for 50 yards. and i will do so again this year. Rifle rental Cost is $30 a day plus ammo used.

Using a rental gun may be the logical choice given the hassle factor, but what does logic have to do with it? Is it logical to fly half way around the world to pursue and kill animals we have no real use for? This is hunting, something we do emotional gratification. As a certifiable rifle geek, I want to use the shooting systems I have developed.

I like my own rifles too much and have seen (and heard too many horror stories about) iffy and bad equipment and ammunition on the other side.

If I miss, I want it to be my fault!

I'll NEVER go on safari without my own rifles. Using my own rifles and my own ammo that I loaded is very important to me.

On the comment about clearing hassles in JoBerg, I'm not sure what hassles are being discussed and the 3 hour wait times unless this happened around 2005 or so when their gun laws had recently changed. I've cleared 8 times now, and bypassed once, starting in 2006. I've always cleared my guns by myself and found there to be absolutely NO hassle at all, never taking more than about 20 minutes. It's no longer a big deal. Just download the SAPS form AND the instructions. Follow the instructions to the letter and you'll zip right through. I've watched the guys come into the SAPS office with the "pre-clearance" services, and we all walk out at the same time.

Take your guns as you'll treasure them as much as your trophies once the trip is over.

Like most here I’m as much a rifleman as I am a hunter, and I would never use a camp rifle unless I got to camp and my rifles didn’t. If that happened, I would still hunt but it would severally dampen the joy of my safari.

Safari is not about convenience, but taking your personally set up, and loaded rifles the way YOU want them, and anything less has a dampening effect on the quality of a safari IMO!
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On my one hunt to Namibia I used a rental rifle (beautiful Schultz and Larsen 7X64)as we were also doing a three week tour through RSA, Zambia, & Zim prior to my hunt making it unfeasible to travel with my own rifle. From my limited experience, I will never do another hunt without my own rifle. I had three problems with the rental:

1. The scope would not hold zero. The rifle was extremely accurate and it was easy to shoot quarter sized groups but the POI changed daily by up to a foot. The scope was to have been replaced but the replacement was stolen from the PH truck on a previous hunt (so the story goes).

2. When we went to buy ammo in Windhoek, the Norma the PH normally used was unavailable so we had to settle for some Privi Partisan that lacked quality control (could pull or push the bullets in or out of half the cartridges with your fingers - not noticed until removal from magazine after shooting) and performance (would not penetrate enough to exit even on point blank "coup de grace" shots.

3. Although I have used many models of bolt actions, I found this rifle hard to familiarize myself with. Nothing like using a rifle that you can handle safely blindfolded!

So on my next hunt, I will put up with the added cost and hassle of taking my own rifle.

quote:

Take your guns as you'll treasure them as much as your trophies once the trip is over.

That says it all! Nicks and scars, which would drive you insane if they had occurred while moving guns around in the safe, are secondary hunting trophies when they happen on a hunt, whether in Africa or in the back 40. Just as important as photos, hunting journals and other mementos.

Gracedog,

The confidence you'll have by using your own rifles and ammo will far out weigh any inconvenience caused by bringing your own rifles. If you jump through all the hoops guns are not a problem 98% of the time.

Mark

I would take my own rifle always, if possible.
Especially if dangerous game is to be hunted. I load my ammo and shoot LOTS before I go. There is nothing as good as shooting the rifle that you will be using. As much trigger time as possible is in your best interest. Also, you will then be familiar with that particular rifles reliability. When hunting dangerous game any malfunction can cause a dangerous situation or even a deadly situation. In my opinion nothing to be taken lightly if you are a responsible hunter. Everything can change after that first shot and you and/or any member of that hunting party can be at risk.
My rifles have always made it both ways with no problems. Hunts were successful and nothing could be blamed on my equipment.
Having said that, IF my rifles did not make it to camp I would be very uncomfortable using a borrowed or rented rifle that I was not familiar with and had not shot a lot. I hope that never happens to me or anyone else but it could.
Also, if you use a rented or borrowed rifle and it proves unsuitable for what ever reason, and you hit an animal and it gets away
because of it YOU will pay for that animal. Not a good thing for the animal or you.
Hope this helps.

I will always bring my own rifles to Africa. Half the fun of the hunt is the working up of loads and the practice for shooting.

You just aren't going to shoot a borrowed rifle as well.

I've done both and will happily rent if needed. However, my shooting with other people's rifles is not what it is with my own (yeah, that really means I've sucked at times with rentals). I'll pay a premium to have my own rifle.

Dean

5 trips and I have taken my own rifles each time. When you take aim at your first trophy, a strange animal, in a strange place, with 3 or more strangers looking over your shoulder it is nice to be holding a rifle that you have confidence in. I have flown into , and out of: JFK, Atlanta, and Dullas. I have taken rifles into: Botswana, Zim and SA. Take your time and get the paperwork right. It really isn't a problem. Take your own.

I’ve never had a rifle fail to make it to camp, or back home. But my Merkel Safari 470NE double was lost by the airline for three weeks, when it belonged to the previous owner, BigB, who posts here. Lucky for him it was on the way home from an elephant/buffalo safari. The rifle was not damaged just lost. If it had been mine at the time I would have been upset to say the least! Still I will always use my own rifles and ammo if possible!

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I hunted in the US & Canada with borrowed rifles & no problems with that.

But if it is DG, I will take my own rifle that I have practiced with and I am familiar with.

I bought my CZ 550 in 416 Rigby just for my African experience. I cannot think of leaving it behind. My back up rifle is a 100+ year old classic Mauser in 9.3X62 & that one just HAS to go to Africa!

If I make a second trip, I'll my Mannlicher Schoenauer .....

Yes I am a rifle nut

Most of the PH's I have hunted with, perhaps 15 or more, have been a mixed bag as to rifles. Only one was a real rifleman, and that was in Tasmania, not Africa. (Yeah, I know. Loose definition of PH.) Some carried arms that were downright dangerous. Not a single one knew how to properly zero a rifle. Many were seemingly unaware that a rifle required any maintenance at all. I have had very heated arguments with some as to how dangerous the so-called Africa safe carry really is. (That is where one closes the bolt while holding the trigger back, on a live round. This results in the firing pin resting on the primer. Many PH's use this method BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF THE WORKINGS OF A TURNBOLT RIFLE.

Yes, I take my own rifles!

On my two trips to South Africa the outfitter loaned (no rental fee) me his rifles (22-250 to .375 H&H). We flew on American airline miles which required connecting through London. That made taking mine impossible. If you plan to borrow a rifle plan time to spend on the range familiarizing yourself with them. I would recommend finding out the details about the rifle(s) before hand and look into renting / borrowing one beforehand and practice.

It would be nice to take my rifles with me, but saving the air fare makes it easier for me to afford the trip. We also had enough air miles to fly first class which made up some for not having my rifles. I did take my favorite skinning knife and did some of the work on my Nyala.

quote:

Originally posted by Gracedog:
I have a question for you guys who have been to Africa multiple times: I am going on my first African hunting trip in 2015, and am wondering if bringing my rifles is worth the hassle. The PH has rifles available to rent out to clients, and I wonder if it makes makes more sense than going through the hassle of bringing my own. I am flying out of the Northeastern US, and airlines in this part of the country are considerably less accomodating than other parts of the country. Your thoughts?

Not sure what hassles you've faced but I've never had anything but smooth, professional and yes friendly experiences flying out of JFK in New York and Newark Liberty in New Jersey. Haven't tried it with pistols but rifles have been no trouble at all.

I've done nine trips to Africa and number ten will be this May. Never had any real hassle either in the states (flown out of NY, VA (Dulles) and Atlanta or in Africa (RSA, Namibia, Botswana, Zim).

I borrowed my PH's Model 70 458 Win. on my first DG hunt because I didn't own a big bore at the time. Did a heart shot on an Elephant and when I worked the bolt fast for the second shot it jammed. By the time I got it cleared the Elephant was out of sight. We followed up and luckily I got a second shot that put him down.

When I asked about the failure to feed the PH said "Oh I forgot to tell you about that, you can't work the bolt very fast". That was the only time I ever borrowed a rifle. That convinced me to buy my 416 Rigby.

Rented guns can be a bit of a crap shoot. Quality of rented rifles varies as much as you can possibly imagine. I have borrowed $6,000 rifles. I have borrowed guns with the objective glass missing from the scope. I have borrowed and rented all sorts in between.

Take your guns. if they don't make it, use the PH's guns.

It really isn't that much of a hassle. Even if it is a bit of a problem, it's worth it.

No hassles on my two trips to Zim and Tanz. Flew out of Detroit and JFK and no problems with TSA or Customs. Carry extra locks (unlocked)inside your gun case, however, if they decide to look inside and pop one off the case.

Don't know about most others here but the camp rifles I have seen, as well as those carried by PH's, do not instill confidence in me.

I do know that several of the PH's that were at DSC opted for Heym doubles. A good step in the right direction.


Dutch

There are some hassles and you end up spending a lot of time worrying if they got on the plane with you. There are some destinations and stop overs that may make it a hassle. Hiring a expediter service (Gracy or one of the other outfits) will usually remove most of the confusion, but you will still have extra steps involved. Make sure that you know the legal issues involved and that you can calmly explain what you are doing and why its allowed to the authorities though.

Most good hunting companies have acceptable rifles available for rent. Many PH's have their own guns they will lend you. The fees have been listed ad being kind of on the high side though.

On the other hand, I have never seen a camp gun that is as nice as what I bring along. The optics are usually not that good. The ammo is often a hodge podge of left overs and client gifts.

I have always brought my own with me, and assumed that if things went bad, I would have to use a company gun, and have to give up on shooting at the edge of my abilities.

Insure the heck out of the rifles, and take them with. What is the point of having a big bore hunting rifle if you never use it to hunt? It may cost some time and effort, but the process and using an expediter service will cost less than rental.

If you are someone who is really not into guns, and has no use for a big bore, and you are going on a one time only trip it may make more financial sense to rent the buffalo or elephant rifle.

Of course, for some of our international hunters, they may not have many options with all this and are stuck renting.

I've made two trips to South Africa and one to Zimbabwe. I used the outfitters/PH's rifles on all three trips. I shot 30.06 Mauser, with and without muzzle suppressor, a Remington .300 Win Mag, and a .375 H&H (can't remember the brand). All were excellent rifles, some older but real solid, very accurate rifles. I've taken 22 animals, from Cape buffalo down to a common duiker with those rifles, lost one blue wildebeest.

Why hassle with SAPs, Customs, and worry about loss of your rifle when you can use a tried and true firearm? The cost is the about the same when you factor in the import permits and so forth.

11 Safaris to date and I have taken my own every time. No change to that policy for me in the foreseeable future.

If I can't bring my own I'm not going. If mine has problems then I'll use my spare. If they both get lost, then I'll think about using a loaner.

Travel, but especially international travel, with firearms is a hassle. Period.

So what?

Embrace it and make it part of the adventure. That works for me.

We don't have to deal with surly tribal chiefs like they did 100 years ago. We get the TSA and "skycaps" at Tambo.


For folks that want a hassle free safari experience, I suggest Kilimanjaro Safari at Disney's Animal Kingdom.

I have been fortunate. I made 8 safaris to Africa took numerous heads of game and did it all with my own rifles and even took one Elephant with a 470 Nitro DOUBLE rifle. I had dreamed of hunting Africa since High school. It is all a romantic fantasy idea that is played out more in the mind than in actuality. Without my own rifles I would not have gone. A large part of the dream was the preparation for the Safari. It ,in fact, may have been a more important part than the actual safari itself. Going on a safari is so much more than the mere trip or even the taking of the game that it is hard to separate it all out. But to me the one overriding aspect was taking my own rifles. I could not have done it any other way.

quote:

Originally posted by SDSpink:

Learn the procedures of checking in your rifle at your home airport and carry a copy of your airline's policy in regards to checking in guns....

not all airlines' policies are printed, or available to the public. United has firearms policies that are not generally available to the public; such as, only 2 guns per case. I learned that lesson the hard way, at the airport.

Thanks to all of you for the replies to my question. Before posting, I was beginning to lean strongly toward renting camp rifles while in Africa, but your replies have made me think twice about that. My hunt will be for plains game in SA, and I was a bit intimidated by the amount of paperwork necessary to bring rifles overseas. I have traveled all over North America hunting, and have had few problems with bringing my firearms along, but on my last trip, the TSA escorted me to a private room, and did a brief "wanding" of my gun case without looking inside. The lady at the ticket counter had already seen the firearms when I opened the case to show them what I had. Then, the TSA saw fit to cut my lock on my duffel after I left, rendering my bag non compliant due to the ammunition inside. I didn't know about this until I landed in Manchester, NH. Traveling overseas would add another dimension to this, and that is why I asked my question. You have raised points that I did not consider, including quality of the firearms, cost of ammo while there, and the confidence in the weapon provided. I have done lots of small improvements to my rifles to make them work better for me, including replacement stocks with better LOP, trigger jobs, and optics that make them work better for me. I think that the question has been answered, my Model 70's will be going along on the hunt with me. Thank you for the input.

The TSA procedures seem to vary a little airport by airport but the last several times I've travelled with firearms the private room and wanding of the gun case has been typical so I wouldn't be too concerned.

The only lock(s) that you need to have the only key to are the gun case. Any other luggage (Including the luggage containing the ammo) should either be unlocked or have TSA locks.

I generally put my ammo inside a pelican case inside my duffel bag with TSA locks on the pelican case. Airlines seem to vary as far as their policies regarding ammo transport so doing it this way allows me to ship my ammo as a separate bag if they want it that way.

Gracedog,

Jaglav has the locking procedure exactly right. You'll be in compliance with the law and everything should stay secure for your trip. Of course there is always the "numbskull official" factor but we can't control that.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by CharlesL:
On my two trips to South Africa the outfitter loaned (no rental fee) me his rifles (22-250 to .375 H&H). We flew on American airline miles which required connecting through London. That made taking mine impossible. We flew on American airline miles which required connecting through London. That made taking mine impossible. If you plan to borrow a rifle plan time to spend on the range familiarizing yourself with them. I would recommend finding out the details about the rifle(s) before hand and look into renting / borrowing one beforehand and practice.

I'm curious as to why you say that. I've flown through London twice with guns and checked them through from the US to South Africa and Bulawayo, without issues. I flew United to SAA though so maybe that was easier.

quote:

Originally posted by Upton O. Good:
...
Why hassle with SAPs, Customs, and worry about loss of your rifle when you can use a tried and true firearm? The cost is the about the same when you factor in the import permits and so forth.

Because, for me, it is the journey as well as the destination. Having rifles built, developing loads for them, familiarizing myself with them is part of the enjoyment with their usage in the hunt being the culmination of the journey.