Gentlemen:
Another thought for my 2020 hunts.
I’m thinking of a tuskless or two in Zimbabwe with my newly acquired 4-bore Rodda.
Where is a good place to go and an approximate price?
Your recommendation is appreciated.
Cheers,
Cal

Cal, given that a 4 bore is what it is, and tuskless is in herds with possibility of needing multiple shots if things go south, I would think that a couple of nontrophy bulls would be the way to go. I did that last year in Sikumi forest late season, and while warm, it was a blast. I could have taken more than 2 in 15 days at that time, but other times of year with water can make it more challenging if you so desire.

Its a bit more than tuskless, but not prohibitively so.

Cal,of all the times you went to Zim you should have a good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Cal,of all the times you went to Zim you should have a good idea.

He is looking for the cheapest price

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Cal,of all the times you went to Zim you should have a good idea.

I know half dozen PHs there half don't have tuskless on quota. It always helps to get the opinions of others.
cal

Nengasha Safaris. Hunted with them last year out of Beitbridge and would recommend without reservation. Lots of elephants with plenty of tuskless.

Cal...Zambia?

I have also thought about a Tuskless. I guess more importantly is what area do you want to hunt?

Thanks, gents.
I know zip about Zambia but am open to anywhere in Zim as I know the country fairly well.
cal

CMS in the Zambezi Valley. Those valley girls are a special breed!

Nengasha is good and plenty of tuskless at Beitbridge West.

Paul Bennie is a good friend of mine and he is the owner of Nengasha.

Wayne Bartlett would be my choice of PHs if you book with Paul.

Thanks, Lane.
Cal

Buzz Charlton.

Buzz and the Zambezi Ladies.

I strongly recommend Alan Shearing with CMS. Personable, steady, an incredible tracker and great company to be with. You will not regret booking with Alan.

I have never heard an unkind word said about Alan. A class act all the way.

CMS runs a world-class operation. Two thumbs up for both Buzz and Alan. You might consider a non-exportable permit, however. If your 4-bore will restrict you to body shots only, hunting a tuskless amongst the Zambezi Ladies might be more dicey than you want. A well-known PH in Zim once described it as, "one shot, then run like hell!" Using a firearm that is incapable of stopping a charge seems a bit foolhardy--not just for you, but for your PH, trackers, and game scout. A non-exportable or own-use permit would give you the option of taking an animal that wasn't in a large group.

My guess is it would be the equivalent of using a single shot handgun. I don’t think a frontal brain is feasible, side brain or body. You will be totally dependent on a backing shot from your PH.
I would suggest emailing Buzz and getting his thoughts. You will get the straight skinny from an expert.
I share the romance of using a similar weapon to Selous and Baker, I would love to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
CMS runs a world-class operation. Two thumbs up for both Buzz and Alan. You might consider a non-exportable permit, however. If your 4-bore will restrict you to body shots only, hunting a tuskless amongst the Zambezi Ladies might be more dicey than you want. A well-known PH in Zim once described it as, "one shot, then run like hell!" Using a firearm that is incapable of stopping a charge seems a bit foolhardy--not just for you, but for your PH, trackers, and game scout. A non-exportable or own-use permit would give you the option of taking an animal that wasn't in a large group.

And usually about the same price, plus you get to hunt a bull and not a cow.

Being in a cow herd in heavy valley Jesse is always dicey, no matter what.

I hunted tuskless with CMS with Buzz on point. I too recommend them!

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
Being in a cow herd in heavy valley Jesse is always dicey, no matter what.

Many years ago, we stopped the truck about half a mile away from a leopard bait we had put up.

I had a 7mm Lazzeroni rifle with me.

Half way there we got into a thicket with a herd of cows, and they started chasing us.

We managed to stay out of their way, and Roy said "we should shoot that tuskless cow"

Alan volunteered to run back to the truck and get my 375/404.

I said to Roy, " how are we going to find her in this thick stuff?"

"We don't have to. She will find us"

Sure enough, Alan brought my rifle, and we went into the thicket.

We could hear them moving around very close, but nothing to see.

Suddenly, I could see her head up, with her trunk up in the air trying to locate us.

As the trunk went down, and I put a bullet into her forehead, and that was that.

Guys,

Cal is shooting a BIG 4 bore CARTRIDGE Double Rifle...and he is VERY Accurate with it!! He loads it up and it is a BEAST ON BOTH ENDS!!...he can reload and reload...just as with any other double!!
I don't think an elephant will shake this off...he will kill it/them!!
Just my 2cents!! I have seen him shoot other 4Bores and many others...600's too>>>
Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Guys,

Cal is shooting a BIG 4 bore CARTRIDGE Double Rifle...and he is VERY Accurate with it!! He loads it up and it is a BEAST ON BOTH ENDS!!...he can reload and reload...just as with any other double!!
I don't think an elephant will shake this off...he will kill it/them!!
Just my 2cents!! I have seen him shoot other 4Bores and many others...600's too>>>
Cheers,

I know nothing about this caliber but wonder is it known to be effective in penetrating an elephant's skull?

I didn’t realize it was a double cartridge gun. Go for it. It might not penetrate on a frontal, especially on a bull. You have a PH to back you up. Choose him wisely.

CMS have lots of experience and I would not hesitate to hunt with Myles again ir with Buzz or Alan. But it's been a long time since I was there.

I have also had the privilege of watching Cal shoot a big double rifle. His ability with one is not in question. Hunting a tuskless cow within a group of cows and calves in the Zambezi Valley jesse creates a strong possibility of a charge by one, and perhaps multiple animals. If the 4-bore is capable of a frontal brain kill shot, then there is no problem. If side brain or body shots are necessary, then I think it would be a wise decision to hunt a more solitary animal. In any case, a discussion with whomever Cal chooses as his PH should take place long before departure. I hunted a non-exportable elephant with Buzz in Dande North last year, and he broke off one stalk due to safety concerns--the group knew we were there, and the jesse was too thick. Any of the CMS guys will take good care of their clients.

My point exactly. You will be able to trust Buzz Myles or Alan to keep you out of trouble. Always better to keep out of trouble than to get out of trouble.
Works in the operating room too.

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
My point exactly. You will be able to trust Buzz Myles or Alan to keep you out of trouble. Always better to keep out of trouble than to get out of trouble.
Works in the operating room too.

My late father was an opthalmic surgeon but both his sons became gas monkeys. He used to shake his finger at us and say: ‘You are PLAYING with FIRE'.

Any and all elephant hunting equates to playing with fire, especially tuskless. This would be quite an adventure!

Might check with Lin Stanton of Mbalabala Safaris. He sometimes does non trophy hunts at really good prices.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by Balule:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marty:
My point exactly. You will be able to trust Buzz Myles or Alan to keep you out of trouble. Always better to keep out of trouble than to get out of trouble.
Works in the operating room too.

Works in the Cockpit...and also with Women, too!!

It is true that the old history books shows that the old Ivory hunters like George Sanderson, William Finaughty, Frederick Courteney Selous, and Sir Samuel White Baker all packed the 4 Bore in the late 1800's...and yes, they were known NOT to be good killers on a frontal brain shot....but a solid killer on side brain and shoulder shots... tremendous recoil and horrendous smoke. I think that can be avoided today...

The 4 Bore shoots a 4 to 4 1/2 inch cartridge, now mostly Brass, but some were paper...14 drams of Black Powder...that's 385 grains, a 1750 to 2000 round ball to later conical bullets thrown at 1450 fps....that's 8000 fps of mussel energy....and 158 lbs of recoil in a 24lb rifle!!

Now that's REAL MAN stuff...and the boys mentioned above abandoned the Bore guns for the Nitro loads as soon as available. There is a story about Selous and a double load....that "unnerved him" to the point of abandoning the 4!!

Go for it Cal....I would back you up, but probably slow you down...

Cheers,

Thanks, 470, and all for the input.
I will have the 4 Rodda at the double shoot in May for all to have a go.
I will take the recommendations on a non trophy bull rather than a cow.
Still looking and have plenty of time to plan.
Also looking into Agrentina in May with the trusty .450-400.
Cheers, all.
Cal

I am envious! Please describe your load.
If you are in Harare you can see Selous’ single shot muzzle loader 4 bore at the national archive.
Could you post details of the May shoot? I’ve never made one of these, but I’m retired now.....