Have been in a friendly argument with a couple of hunters...The question is on a buff first shot premium softpoint followed by solids or two solids and two softpoints in that order...

I personally like all solids...

retreever

Freedom is not Free

What is it suffering from? Treatments will depend on illness IMHO...

And what is all this talk about solids and softs? I don't think buffaloes take pills...

retreever,

All softs (Swift A-Frames) from a .416 Rem Mag. No need for solids from a .416. In any case, never a solid on the first shot, unless you want to pay for the dead cow standing behind the bull.

In a .375, I would vote one soft, followed by solids.

As always, just my opinion.

Regards,

Terry

IMO the client should be using softs, softs and more softs. Solid bullets should be in the PHs rifle. The only time I like my clients to use solids is if they come with me on a follow up.

shakari,

I'm very interested in your opinion on the use of Barnes X bullets for African game, especially Buffalo, Lion and Leopard. I'm talking about .308(.30-06 and .300 magnums), .375(H&H) and .416(Rigby) calibers. Lawdog

I am perfectly content to shoot a buffalo with solids, preferably GS or Bridger flat nose solids which seem to kill as well as anything else I've used..I know the solid is going to work, at least the GS will, havn't shot the Bridger as yet but I'm betting it will work..I like the old Hornadys and the Woodleigh solids also..

I've had very good luck with the North Forks, Woodleighs, Swifts and Nosler softs on Buff and have witnessed a lot of success with Barnes X, GS HV and Failsafes

Softs?, OK by me if you like them...I've used them successfully as you can see and today they are better than ever, but still not sure I trust them altogether, which is probably just a holdover from yesteryear..I will be useing 450 gr Woodleigh softs and 350 gr. Woodleigh softs in my 416 Rem and 375 H&H respectively this year, but you can bet I will have some solids under....

It's an old arguement, some of my PH's like for you to use striaght solids and some like a soft on top and solids coming up...Most of them are equal in experience...

Bottom line is I doubt if it makes a heck of a lot of difference if the first shot is right.

I'm a great believer in the principle of use enough gun, and as I said like clients to use (for Buff) a slow expanding soft point of some kind. I find Barnes X are pretty good, but they don't seem to perform if they're made to go too fast.

I have no personal experience of the flat nosed solid, but hope to buy some from Gerhard if he ever makes any in .510. Nor do I have any personal experience with the North Fork Ray talks about..... Ray, do they make them in .510? However I agree wholeheartedly with his last comment about bullet placement. If you hit 'em in the wrong place with any bullet of any calibre you're in the shit.

I personally like my clients to bring as large a calibre as they can shoot confidently & competently.

As for plains game, I prefer my clients to shoot at least a .30 calibre if possible. As to choice of bullet type, that's a subject that will entertain hunters forever. But my personal #1 choice is Winchester silvertip in 180 grain. I've shot everything from duiker to Eland with it and love it to bits. I appreciate it can do serious meat damage, but as far as I'm concerned, assuming the bullet hits in the right place the animal either falls over fairly quickly or at least leaves a good blood trail to follow.

As to small calibres, I appreciate that many hunters have shot many animals with them. But at the end of the day, a bigger bullet will kill more effectively than a small one assuming they're both placed correctly. So why spend all that money on an African adventure and risk losing expensive trophies by using a picanin rifle.

What I believe is vitally important is to use the correct bullet type for the correct animal. My choice for my .500 Jeffrey is Woodleigh Soft points for Lion, Woodleigh PSP for Buff (when I'm hunting Buff for myself) and a Mono solid for wounded buff...... When I have a client on a Buff hunt, I only use mono solid.

I also use only mono solid on Elephant & Rhino.

I'm very interested to hear more about the North Fork bullets.

Cheers

More, and more PHs are reccognising the viability of modern quality soft points on things like Buffalo. I hunted with one PH who insisted on all softs in my 375 H&H bolt rifle, and it turned out alright, with a one shot kill at 70 yds. I, if left to my own decision on the loading, will load a Nosler Partition on top, with Barnes super solids under, in a 375 H&H bolt rifle. In my doubles, I carry it with a soft in the right barrel, and a solid in the left. The chambering decideing what brand of either soft or solid, and never a Mono solid in my doubles. With this load combination, it is very easy to switch to a solid on top or in the right barrel if needed. I carry the soft on top because if you are in really good game country, you never know what you may step on, and that soft makes a better first shot on something like a lioness, who thinks I'm there to molest her cubs!
Just my opinion, and worth only what you are paying for it, to anyone but me!

Shakari,
.423 is the largest bullet that North fork makes as far as I know, he recently sent me a box to try out...perhaps he makes a 458, I'm not sure but I know as of now no 500's are available..

Bridger bullets can make you anything you want, but your close enough to GS that should work out for you...I know the FN solid adds a new deminsion to solids as to killing effect...

As to this solid vs. soft age old conversation, I think where you are hunting has to come into the picture...

I use solids in Tanzanias Selous for the most part as it is fairly open and I am normally hunting bachlor bulls. In Zim I might be in the low veld bush and a soft is appropreiate there as it is mostly herd hunting and penitration may or may not be a consideration, either a soft or patience is required as a rule...

I also prefer a solid in the thick high grass as it shoots through that grass better than a soft, and I have on many ocassions had nothing but a head looking at me and slipped one through the grass to where I figured the heart was and it has always worked for me.

Mostly I like a solid because it seemed to me I that I always had a damn soft in the hole when I needed a solid and had to slip it out and another in....With a solid I just shoot the bugger from any angle or whatever, as long as I could route it to the heart...

Many of todays softs are near foolproof, but none are 100%, and I have seen Swift, Woodleigh,Nosler, and monolithics fail on rare ocassions, and mostly on spine shots and they killed the animal or paralized it in all but one instance as I recall...

Todays solids are, in my experience, failproof or at least the ones I use are, that being Woodleighs and GS Custom. I am sure the Bridger bullet will be fine unless the bullet hardness comes into play...they are so far unproven on the African scene, but apparantly have proved very successfull on American Bison, so they should be fine...

But, like I said, I will stay with my favorite solids, make the first shot count, mostly because it has worked for me over the years and I have a therory that if it ain't broke then don't fix it.

As to the use of softs on Buffalo, the bottom line is I have no problem with folks using them, I use them a lot, mostly testing bullets for a bullet maker and giving him testimony as to the results along with opinnion on what changes need to be made etc...This year I will be useing Woodleigh 450 gr. in the 416 and 350 gr. in the 375 and I think these two bullets will add a new deminsion to both calibers...the magazine will be filled with FN solids.

It is all fun and games, and every once in awhile it can get pretty grim, but I love it when things go heywire, it is a rush you know! I will add to that statement but only if all ends well...

Thanks Ray,

I've asked Gerhard from GS to contact me when he has some .510s but I reckon he's waiting for other people to order in the same calibre, and I can't blame him for that....... but I can't help feeling it may be a long wait!

Good posts! You guys are much smarter than you look!